Land Bridge at Hardberger Park

2,769 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by rwtxag83
Good Bull Jones 17
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8:00a, 8/19/20
AG
Anyone else think this is really cool? Definitely want to check this out when they finish it this fall.

https://www.philhardbergerpark.org/land-bridge
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bam02
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8:04a, 8/19/20
AG
Gonna be awesome
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PLUM LOCO
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2:56p, 8/19/20
AG
$23 million to build, how much will they spend to train the animals to use it?
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AggieRob93
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In reply to PLUM LOCO • 4:45p, 8/19/20
AG
PLUM LOCO said:
$23 million to build, how much will they spend to train the animals to use it?
Bipeds or 4-leggers?
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Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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6:30p, 8/19/20
AG
Should have built it for the $10MM and used the $13MM elsewhere.
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Good Bull Jones 17
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8:08p, 8/19/20
AG
I was floored that they were able to raise $10MM from private sources. That's pretty damn good.
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MookieBlaylock
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9:23p, 8/19/20
AG
23 million for that piece of crap
Meanwhile just tearing down all the surrounding woods
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azul_rain
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7:00a, 8/20/20
Why would it cost 23 million ?
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
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bam02
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1:14p, 8/20/20
AG
Wow I hadn't seen the price tag
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BlackLab
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1:18p, 8/20/20
AG
They should've expanded the intersection at NW military instead.
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azul_rain
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In reply to BlackLab • 1:26p, 8/20/20
Eff yes, once you get to That intersection by Alon it's a **** show
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
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SanAntoneAg
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In reply to BlackLab • 10:37p, 8/20/20
AG
I remember when NW Military was one lane coming and going back in 1980. Way before Wurzbach Parkway was a glimmer in Hardberger's eye.

We used to bowhunt the Voelcker Ranch as kids. Growing up in Oak Meadow, the ass end of Castle Hills Forest had streets cut but no homes. It was full of deer and turkey and a short walk from the house. There were some nice bucks in those woods.

The land bridge idea is a waste of thought, engineering and money. They should have had the foresight to figure that sheet out when they designed Wurzbach Parkway to traverse their park.

Instead, it's the puro San Antonio way. Build the sidewalks first and then figure out where people walk and then come back and drop the $$$ to fix it.

Besides, with buildout surrounding the park, a land bridge isn't going to make a fookin difference for biodiversity or any other bull sheet reason they can concoct.
Gig 'em! '90
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04.arch.ag
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1:04p, 8/21/20
AG
The bridge is a cool concept but I doubt it is functional in any of the environmental reasons they claim and although the 23MM is a chunk of change its not that expensive of a justification for some environmental circle jerk for the COSA parks dept. Its a magazine pet project for the city to show how eco-conscious they are.
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PLUM LOCO
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5:09p, 8/21/20
AG
They could have put a tunnel under Wurzbach a lot cheaper but they needed a monument to the efforts.
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azul_rain
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In reply to PLUM LOCO • 5:15p, 8/21/20
Yep, this is just eco terrorism for COSA
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Good Bull Jones 17
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8:20a, 8/22/20
AG
How many of y'all regularly use San Antonio parks? Maybe the reason I'm excited is because I regularly use Hardberger Park. If you don't use the parks, I can see how it feels like a waste of money.
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azul_rain
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In reply to Good Bull Jones 17 • 8:22a, 8/22/20
I go to freidrich more often than hardberger
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Good Bull Jones 17
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8:38a, 8/22/20
AG
Also, I was just looking up the 2017 bond (The source of funding for the $13MM), and at the time it passed the city wasn't projecting any property tax increases to fund it. Did that turn out to be the case? I only just bought a home this summer, so I haven't been paying attention to property taxes before that.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Good Bull Jones 17 • 11:40a, 8/22/20
AG
Good Bull Jones 17 said:
Also, I was just looking up the 2017 bond (The source of funding for the $13MM), and at the time it passed the city wasn't projecting any property tax increases to fund it. Did that turn out to be the case? I only just bought a home this summer, so I haven't been paying attention to property taxes before that.


"No property tax increase" is a smoke and mirrors comment. Your taxes can go up due to your evaluation going up, but if the local politicians keep the rate constant they can claim they "didn't increase taxes". Yet the money out of your pocket increases.

The reason your taxes "don't increase" is because the city factors debt service into their budget every year. As soon as they pay off bonds from past elections they have another round of bond projects in the queue for the next election. Very rarely to successive bond elections borrow less money than the previous bond election.


This is a neat project, but I agree with SanAntoneAg that there are better places for the city to spend this money.

San Antonio has a lot of mixed up priorities.
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Good Bull Jones 17
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In reply to Burdizzo • 2:01p, 8/22/20
AG
Burdizzo said:
Good Bull Jones 17 said:
Also, I was just looking up the 2017 bond (The source of funding for the $13MM), and at the time it passed the city wasn't projecting any property tax increases to fund it. Did that turn out to be the case? I only just bought a home this summer, so I haven't been paying attention to property taxes before that.


"No property tax increase" is a smoke and mirrors comment. Your taxes can go up due to your evaluation going up, but if the local politicians keep the rate constant they can claim they "didn't increase taxes". Yet the money out of your pocket increases.

The reason your taxes "don't increase" is because the city factors debt service into their budget every year. As soon as they pay off bonds from past elections they have another round of bond projects in the queue for the next election. Very rarely to successive bond elections borrow less money than the previous bond election.


This is a neat project, but I agree with SanAntoneAg that there are better places for the city to spend this money.

San Antonio has a lot of mixed up priorities.


Gotcha. In the wake of big bond packages, do you think appraisers get pressured to be aggressive on property evaluations?

For the sake of me becoming more informed, what are some of the things San Antonio would do well to spend on instead?
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SanAntoneAg
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In reply to Good Bull Jones 17 • 11:27p, 8/22/20
AG
My wife and son run in Hardberger frequently. Land bridge? I n the words of crazy uncle Joe, Come on, man!

As accurately described above, they could have planned for a pedestrian underpass back in the design phase of the project.

And regarding animal use? Unless the wild animals are trained, as also mentioned above, it's worthless. The rut will kick in every November and you'll have dead deer on the Parkway because they forgot or didn't know that they were supposed to use the land bridge.

Boondoggle, friends.
Gig 'em! '90
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SanAntoneAg
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In reply to Good Bull Jones 17 • 11:29p, 8/22/20
AG
I'm all for investing in more park space.

Which leads me to another point. All this acreage that is being bought up to protect and preserve the aquifer...make it available for public use somehow. Allow TPWD to offer special hunting opportunities. Allow the public to hike/run/bike on the property.

Denying limited public access, with aquifer protection in place, is bull crap.
Gig 'em! '90
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AgCat93
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7:15p, 9/12/20
AG
Can't wait to see photos of roadkill near this structure when complete.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Good Bull Jones 17 • 10:13a, 9/13/20
AG
Good Bull Jones 17 said:
Burdizzo said:
Good Bull Jones 17 said:
Also, I was just looking up the 2017 bond (The source of funding for the $13MM), and at the time it passed the city wasn't projecting any property tax increases to fund it. Did that turn out to be the case? I only just bought a home this summer, so I haven't been paying attention to property taxes before that.


"No property tax increase" is a smoke and mirrors comment. Your taxes can go up due to your evaluation going up, but if the local politicians keep the rate constant they can claim they "didn't increase taxes". Yet the money out of your pocket increases.

The reason your taxes "don't increase" is because the city factors debt service into their budget every year. As soon as they pay off bonds from past elections they have another round of bond projects in the queue for the next election. Very rarely to successive bond elections borrow less money than the previous bond election.


This is a neat project, but I agree with SanAntoneAg that there are better places for the city to spend this money.

San Antonio has a lot of mixed up priorities.


Gotcha. In the wake of big bond packages, do you think appraisers get pressured to be aggressive on property evaluations?

For the sake of me becoming more informed, what are some of the things San Antonio would do well to spend on instead?



Bond elections are usually multi- faceted. There are multiple packages to vote on - streets, drainage, parks, libraries, public safety, etc. This was a parks project that leveraged private and public money to build it. I give credit to the city for making the parks foundation chip in for a good amount of it. That said I think a lot of the smaller, neighborhood, parks around town could have benefited more thatln one grandiose project. I also think we could have gotten several linear trails projects for what the taxpayers are spending on this land bridge. Something tells me maintenance costs on that thing will make it an albatross around the parks department budget.
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WBBQ74
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In reply to SanAntoneAg • 10:28a, 9/24/20
AG
Look at the TCEQ online map for the Edwards Recharge Zone. The Wurzbach Parkway (WP) is south of the magic line.

I spent a year of my professional life working on the WP schematic layout back in 1989. What is now Hardberger Park was just the 'woods', i.e., the old Walker Ranch/Voelker Tract property that lots of folks had tried to develop for years. Folks that owned it just did not want to sell. We had no idea this area would be a park someday.

CoSA spends the money it gets and it is never, ever going to be enough. Parks are usually built in floodplains because that land can't be used for anything else and is basically economically worthless.

For decades the 'Environment' is a catch all passion jar for whatever folks of various persuasions want to pour into it. Everyone likes trees except for when they get into the way of YOUR stuff. Protecting the aquifer sounds great in the abstract until you get hit for the bill yourself on something. OPM is easy to spend.

This fancy 'land bridge', as opposed to a 'water bridge', is nice for the occasional hiker but I am thinking the deer are going to go wherever they want. They read poorly.

So what should CoSA really be doing with the tax money? Fix roads and drainage stuff. Things people REALLY USE.
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rwtxag83
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8:45a, 9/26/20
AG
Waste of money. Gets lots of oohs and ahhs from the animal lover set, but there's so many other places to spend it.
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