I'm in McKinney / north texas and have had an ongoing issue with my water heater in the attic. The pilot light routinely goes out this time of year. I've been told by a plumber it is due to the heat in the attic and the only thing to do is to take steps to lower the temp. I have no idea where to start. Who would I even go to to discuss things that might help (increasing ventilation, etc). Anybody else dealt with this or simply taken steps to lower the temp in their attic?
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Attic Ventilation / Cooling - Water Heater Issues
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Last: 13 days ago by JP76
You've got radiant, conductive, and convective heating going on in your attic.
Convective, which is addressed by proper ventilation, may be the least important.
A lot of ventilated attics do not have enough soffit or ridge vent, or the soffit vents are blocked by insulation. That should be checked first. Whirly birds and powered attic fans generally aren't that great/adequate.
To address the radiant heat, a radiant barrier product can be installed. It can allegedly drop your attic temps by 30F.
Conductive heat is tougher to tackle and goes more into building design.
My preference would be to move the water heater/time bomb out of the attic altogether and/or switch to a tankless.
Convective, which is addressed by proper ventilation, may be the least important.
A lot of ventilated attics do not have enough soffit or ridge vent, or the soffit vents are blocked by insulation. That should be checked first. Whirly birds and powered attic fans generally aren't that great/adequate.
To address the radiant heat, a radiant barrier product can be installed. It can allegedly drop your attic temps by 30F.
Conductive heat is tougher to tackle and goes more into building design.
My preference would be to move the water heater/time bomb out of the attic altogether and/or switch to a tankless.
Most roofs I work with are under-ventilated. Do you have continuous soffit venting? Are those pathways clear in the attic? To check, turn off the lights in the attic, and go up there when it's light outside and see if you can see light at the edges of the attic where your soffits are. If so, that's good.
At that point I would recommend ridge vents to improve ventilation because they are relatively cost effective.
If you really want to improve ventilation, then I would go with an appropriate number of Attic Breeze solar powers, thermostat controlled fans. 2-3 will be appropriate for most houses. If you have a huge house, then you might need one more. They require no electricity, thus no electrician (saving money), they have a long warranty, and they only come on when it's 100 degrees or more.
The next step down for cost are electric powered fans. Still thermostatically controlled, but they have a relatively short life in Texas attics.
If you want a more cost effective solar powered option, then Four Seasons 10W is a good option. You will need more of them and they don't have thermostats. These are nice if you already have static turtle vents, you just swap them out for these solar ones. If the sun is out, they are moving air. Personally, I don't think this is a big deal, air movement in your attic year round is not a bad thing.
The solar powered options are my favorite as they are quiet and just peacefully do their thing.
At that point I would recommend ridge vents to improve ventilation because they are relatively cost effective.
If you really want to improve ventilation, then I would go with an appropriate number of Attic Breeze solar powers, thermostat controlled fans. 2-3 will be appropriate for most houses. If you have a huge house, then you might need one more. They require no electricity, thus no electrician (saving money), they have a long warranty, and they only come on when it's 100 degrees or more.
The next step down for cost are electric powered fans. Still thermostatically controlled, but they have a relatively short life in Texas attics.
If you want a more cost effective solar powered option, then Four Seasons 10W is a good option. You will need more of them and they don't have thermostats. These are nice if you already have static turtle vents, you just swap them out for these solar ones. If the sun is out, they are moving air. Personally, I don't think this is a big deal, air movement in your attic year round is not a bad thing.
The solar powered options are my favorite as they are quiet and just peacefully do their thing.
P.H. Dexippus said:
You've got radiant, conductive, and convective heating going on in your attic.
Convective, which is addressed by proper ventilation, may be the least important.
A lot of ventilated attics do not have enough soffit or ridge vent, or the soffit vents are blocked by insulation. That should be checked first. Whirly birds and powered attic fans generally aren't that great/adequate.
To address the radiant heat, a radiant barrier product can be installed. It can allegedly drop your attic temps by 30F.
Conductive heat is tougher to tackle and goes more into building design.
My preference would be to move the water heater/time bomb out of the attic altogether and/or switch to a tankless.
Thanks for the info and suggestions!
Jason_Roofer said:
Most roofs I work with are under-ventilated. Do you have continuous soffit venting? Are those pathways clear in the attic? To check, turn off the lights in the attic, and go up there when it's light outside and see if you can see light at the edges of the attic where your soffits are. If so, that's good.
At that point I would recommend ridge vents to improve ventilation because they are relatively cost effective.
If you really want to improve ventilation, then I would go with an appropriate number of Attic Breeze solar powers, thermostat controlled fans. 2-3 will be appropriate for most houses. If you have a huge house, then you might need one more. They require no electricity, thus no electrician (saving money), they have a long warranty, and they only come on when it's 100 degrees or more.
The next step down for cost are electric powered fans. Still thermostatically controlled, but they have a relatively short life in Texas attics.
If you want a more cost effective solar powered option, then Four Seasons 10W is a good option. You will need more of them and they don't have thermostats. These are nice if you already have static turtle vents, you just swap them out for these solar ones. If the sun is out, they are moving air. Personally, I don't think this is a big deal, air movement in your attic year round is not a bad thing.
The solar powered options are my favorite as they are quiet and just peacefully do their thing.
Thank you for the suggestions. Given you work in roofing, do you happen to know of any companies around DFW that you might recommend reaching out to who specialize in attic work like this?
how old is the heater and what brand is it ?
is it propane or natural gas ?
Is there an attic pull down nearby ?
I have seen this in older heaters when they were near the attic stairs and opening closing them would blow out the pilot.
Have also seen on older when the heater is near intake vents in soffit and exhaust vents in roof or attic fans.
If this a newer heater the combustion chamber should have a sealed glass over it and should be less of a problem unless you have a dirty pilot orifice or thermo coupler issue.
Also some brand of gas heaters have an air filter at the bottom that you have to clean every 6 months or the heater will become oxygen starved and shut off. I know ao smith does and at least one other brand.
is it propane or natural gas ?
Is there an attic pull down nearby ?
I have seen this in older heaters when they were near the attic stairs and opening closing them would blow out the pilot.
Have also seen on older when the heater is near intake vents in soffit and exhaust vents in roof or attic fans.
If this a newer heater the combustion chamber should have a sealed glass over it and should be less of a problem unless you have a dirty pilot orifice or thermo coupler issue.
Also some brand of gas heaters have an air filter at the bottom that you have to clean every 6 months or the heater will become oxygen starved and shut off. I know ao smith does and at least one other brand.
I'm currently installing radiant barrier in my attic and is slow going and sucks since I can really only do it on Saturday mornings. Is not really easy to maneuver in a lot of attics and the insulation sucks, but seems to be helping some.
I'm prolly 65-70% finished and seems to help. I also have soffit vents and gable vent fans and I live in bcs.
I'm prolly 65-70% finished and seems to help. I also have soffit vents and gable vent fans and I live in bcs.
I do work there, but it is strictly limited to roof ventilation, roofing, and gutters. I generally measure the roof space and get some specs, and then come up with a few options to ventilate the roof that fit peoples needs and budget. They would likely be one of the options I listed above. This type of thing wouldn't be overly complicated. It's a pretty common upgrade.
If you need a whole attic/home envelope evaluation, then that may require a specialist that handles that. Sometimes attic insulation companies can provide that.
If you need a whole attic/home envelope evaluation, then that may require a specialist that handles that. Sometimes attic insulation companies can provide that.
Piggybacking on this thread to ask an unrelated attic ventilation question. Is there a reason why my house would have vented soffits on only one side of the house? 1960-ish bungalow with the original gable vents and a ridge vent (probably put in by the previous owner). I am planning on doing some air sealing and improving the insulation this fall and noticed this while working on my to-do list.
JP76 said:
how old is the heater and what brand is it ?
is it propane or natural gas ?
Is there an attic pull down nearby ?
I have seen this in older heaters when they were near the attic stairs and opening closing them would blow out the pilot.
Have also seen on older when the heater is near intake vents in soffit and exhaust vents in roof or attic fans.
If this a newer heater the combustion chamber should have a sealed glass over it and should be less of a problem unless you have a dirty pilot orifice or thermo coupler issue.
Also some brand of gas heaters have an air filter at the bottom that you have to clean every 6 months or the heater will become oxygen starved and shut off. I know ao smith does and at least one other brand.
Sorry, just coming back to this. So the water heater is around 8 years old. It was replaced since I have been in the house. It is a Rheem and gas. It's not really close to the attic pulldown. Pulldown is kind of to the side and the water heater is more in the center. I've had a plumber out before that I have used repeatedly, who I generally trust and find pretty knowledgeable, and he said it was just an attic heat issue. But, he could certainly be wrong about that. I don't know anything about an air filter at the bottom. Neither the plumber that installed it or plumbers I have used since have mentioned it.
Also, I should probably add this is not a recent thing. It's been happening off and on for multiple summers.
Fun guessing game, all righty.
You of course agree that the other side needs soffit vents ASAP to avoid trapping bad stuff in attic due to this unblanced no-cross ventilation "weather" up there.
Guesses:
Little Jonny Genius thought he would capture only cool air for the attic with soffit vents on the shady side of house and made enough of them for a SF total that passed CODE inspection?
Little Lazy Steve left the other soffit venting install for another day, then forgot about it after one sleep. Besides, it's venting some now, so what's the rush?
Treehouse Tom thought that someday he would use the unvented side of this attic to build a small Man's/Cigar Room ... if not sauna.
You of course agree that the other side needs soffit vents ASAP to avoid trapping bad stuff in attic due to this unblanced no-cross ventilation "weather" up there.
Guesses:
Little Jonny Genius thought he would capture only cool air for the attic with soffit vents on the shady side of house and made enough of them for a SF total that passed CODE inspection?
Little Lazy Steve left the other soffit venting install for another day, then forgot about it after one sleep. Besides, it's venting some now, so what's the rush?
Treehouse Tom thought that someday he would use the unvented side of this attic to build a small Man's/Cigar Room ... if not sauna.
Gotta draw since me got no grammar MasterArch '76
I'll die on the hill that putting water heaters in attics is ****ing stupid. They belong in the garage or a water closet in the garage.
Remodel or repair after original construction added or deleted vents.
jt2hunt said:
Remodel or repair after original construction added or deleted vents.
Very likely. I bought the house from a flipper who bought from the original owner. Overall, the flipper did a credible job, but there's always something…
First home I purchased, came home Christmas Day to water pouring out of the ceiling…water heater in the attic. Never again! Now rolling with two tankless (gas) in the attic and really happy with this setup.
Tormentos said:
First home I purchased, came home Christmas Day to water pouring out of the ceiling…water heater in the attic. Never again! Now rolling with two tankless (gas) in the attic and really happy with this setup.
Last year I arrived at my house in Traditions where the tankless had sprung a massive leak that poured for an unknown number of days and took out the ceiling in the master closet and master bath. Point being, having a tankless doesn't mean you can't have a massive leak and a major mess
Yes, it's maintained.
jtraggie99 said:JP76 said:
how old is the heater and what brand is it ?
is it propane or natural gas ?
Is there an attic pull down nearby ?
I have seen this in older heaters when they were near the attic stairs and opening closing them would blow out the pilot.
Have also seen on older when the heater is near intake vents in soffit and exhaust vents in roof or attic fans.
If this a newer heater the combustion chamber should have a sealed glass over it and should be less of a problem unless you have a dirty pilot orifice or thermo coupler issue.
Also some brand of gas heaters have an air filter at the bottom that you have to clean every 6 months or the heater will become oxygen starved and shut off. I know ao smith does and at least one other brand.
Sorry, just coming back to this. So the water heater is around 8 years old. It was replaced since I have been in the house. It is a Rheem and gas. It's not really close to the attic pulldown. Pulldown is kind of to the side and the water heater is more in the center. I've had a plumber out before that I have used repeatedly, who I generally trust and find pretty knowledgeable, and he said it was just an attic heat issue. But, he could certainly be wrong about that. I don't know anything about an air filter at the bottom. Neither the plumber that installed it or plumbers I have used since have mentioned it.
Also, I should probably add this is not a recent thing. It's been happening off and on for multiple summers.
rheem does not have air filter at the bottom.
Has it happened every summer since new ?
or has become more prevalent the older it has gotten ?
Whoop Delecto said:
Many post-2003 tank-style gas models include a Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistance (FVIR) system with a flame arrestor and filter screen (under the base) to prevent flammable vapor ignition.
These can accumulate dust or lint and may need occasional cleaning (with a brush and vacuum) if they cause pilot issues
Brands include A.O. Smith, Rheem, Bradford White, Whirlpool, and others
https://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/media/48973/st-gas-filtercleaning.pdf
This is the filter I was talking about. Have seen in ao smith and bradford white. Have never seen one in a rheem tank unless they changed them since last week.
AmC_OldSarge said:Tormentos said:
First home I purchased, came home Christmas Day to water pouring out of the ceiling…water heater in the attic. Never again! Now rolling with two tankless (gas) in the attic and really happy with this setup.
Last year I arrived at my house in Traditions where the tankless had sprung a massive leak that poured for an unknown number of days and took out the ceiling in the master closet and master bath. Point being, having a tankless doesn't mean you can't have a massive leak and a major mess
Yes, it's maintained.
ALL heaters will eventually leak. Out of sight and elevated was the dumbest idea ever but was very common in the 70's-90's.
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