Need advice…new shop…bad concrete
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87 Replies |
Last: 1 day ago by BlueHeeler
Need some help here on the best path forward to have my new foundation repaired.
TLDR…new foundation looks like a dirt road and the contractor is saying he gets to determine the quality of the finish and whether he needs to fix it on his dime.
Had a foundation poured the day before Thanksgiving and either the contractor or concrete company miscalculated and they were short on concrete. Had an emergency truck delivered but the original pours were already firming up. They claimed to do their best on getting it flat and level and worked into the early hours of the evening to get it set. It wasn't near flat when I checked it later that evening. I called the contractor that evening and he agreed to come look at it the next day. We met and he agreed it wasn't acceptable so he was going to use a self-leveler product to correct the issues.
A week goes by and he attempts to apply an adhesive compound to help the leveler adhere properly. He abandons the attempt and said the concrete was too cold for the adhesive. We talk again and he says they are going to build the shop and then have weather protection for the leveler compound and try again.
Fast forward 2 months and the shop is finally built and they are going to try again on the leveling compound. They pick the warmest day (this past Thursday) and start the process. They apply leveler to about 1/3 of the foundation and leave for the day. Come back on Friday morning and finish the job. I got out to the shop that evening and discovered the foundation is much worse than before (pics below). I reach out to the contractor and voice my displeasure. He responds that he had already spent nearly $1800 on the "fix" and the original foundation was good enough.
Would appreciate any input from some concrete experts on possible fixes and advice on how to handle the issue with the contractor paying to fix it.
TLDR…new foundation looks like a dirt road and the contractor is saying he gets to determine the quality of the finish and whether he needs to fix it on his dime.
Had a foundation poured the day before Thanksgiving and either the contractor or concrete company miscalculated and they were short on concrete. Had an emergency truck delivered but the original pours were already firming up. They claimed to do their best on getting it flat and level and worked into the early hours of the evening to get it set. It wasn't near flat when I checked it later that evening. I called the contractor that evening and he agreed to come look at it the next day. We met and he agreed it wasn't acceptable so he was going to use a self-leveler product to correct the issues.
A week goes by and he attempts to apply an adhesive compound to help the leveler adhere properly. He abandons the attempt and said the concrete was too cold for the adhesive. We talk again and he says they are going to build the shop and then have weather protection for the leveler compound and try again.
Fast forward 2 months and the shop is finally built and they are going to try again on the leveling compound. They pick the warmest day (this past Thursday) and start the process. They apply leveler to about 1/3 of the foundation and leave for the day. Come back on Friday morning and finish the job. I got out to the shop that evening and discovered the foundation is much worse than before (pics below). I reach out to the contractor and voice my displeasure. He responds that he had already spent nearly $1800 on the "fix" and the original foundation was good enough.
Would appreciate any input from some concrete experts on possible fixes and advice on how to handle the issue with the contractor paying to fix it.
The pictures are hard to tell a bunch but it looks terrible. Not sure what original concrete looked like but I think you are better having him pull up topping. If you are driving Polaris or tractor it will more than likely fail over time. He should have taken responsibility for the original slab. I don't care whos fault it is is they were short on concrete when they poured. I know contractors who had to get another yard delivered and yes cost them but you have to complete the job, sounds like his concrete contractor did not care and just said screw it. I don't want to tell you to be that guys but you might have to get a lawyer. The response you got about costing him $1800.00 already does not the response you should get from a good contractor. If it was his choice to do the topping and it did not work it is his fault. I am not real familiar with topping products but would think the whole slab would need to be done at one time.
Agree w precious poster
If you don't have any remedies to make this contractor, perform then what are you going to do?
How much are you willing to spend on an attorney to make him perform?
And then, if you spend the amount on the attorney, is that same amount something that would solve the problem?
That looks like a pretty big building so I imagine some heavy equipment is going in it and I don't have any faith in that leveling compound to withstand traffic of heavy equipment or vehicles over time..
I don't know how much out of level the foundation is because we can't tell from the pictures. But it looks like more than one could grind off mechanically to level.
On a sidenote, I seem to be hearing about more and more contractors failing on jobs lately.
If you don't have any remedies to make this contractor, perform then what are you going to do?
How much are you willing to spend on an attorney to make him perform?
And then, if you spend the amount on the attorney, is that same amount something that would solve the problem?
That looks like a pretty big building so I imagine some heavy equipment is going in it and I don't have any faith in that leveling compound to withstand traffic of heavy equipment or vehicles over time..
I don't know how much out of level the foundation is because we can't tell from the pictures. But it looks like more than one could grind off mechanically to level.
On a sidenote, I seem to be hearing about more and more contractors failing on jobs lately.
I think you will have to take him to court to get a remedy; but what can they do now that the building is up?
Perhaps it should have been remedied with no building so it could be torn up and re-laid properly.
/No experience with concrete but that looks bad. Daytime pics would help.
Perhaps it should have been remedied with no building so it could be torn up and re-laid properly.
/No experience with concrete but that looks bad. Daytime pics would help.
Agree with comments above. Do you still owe the contractor? I just finished a big stamped concrete job, paid 60% up front, but the job didn't turn out great. I held the remainder until they spent a couple weeks getting it right. I'm not sure they would've cared about fixing things if I had paid them in full.
Hopefully you had some form of agreement that mentions deliverable quality.
Time to lawyer-up if the contractor won't fix the problem.
Hopefully you had some form of agreement that mentions deliverable quality.
Time to lawyer-up if the contractor won't fix the problem.
AKA 13-0
I grew up in the concrete industry. This job looks like hammered dog *****
The slab should have been pulled out and completely redone. In theory, they could have finished what was poured to an acceptable standard, then saw cut the unfinished edge, treated it as a panel joint and poured the rest as a second run on a different day. That would have been the best possible solution that did not involve 100% demo/replace. It looks to me like they made a bad pour much, much worse.
I agree this is most likely going to take lawyers and court to get resolved.
The slab should have been pulled out and completely redone. In theory, they could have finished what was poured to an acceptable standard, then saw cut the unfinished edge, treated it as a panel joint and poured the rest as a second run on a different day. That would have been the best possible solution that did not involve 100% demo/replace. It looks to me like they made a bad pour much, much worse.
I agree this is most likely going to take lawyers and court to get resolved.
Seems like I'm pretty much screwed…I don't have much faith in the contractor to right the wrong at this point. Just curious but is this something small claims court could handle? I'm guessing I'm in the $7-10k range for concrete resurfacing (grinding and resealing) for a 2000sf area
I had a concrete guy mention you could frame out a perimeter inside the building and do a couple inch leveling pour to resolve. Anybody ever heard of that being done?
I had a concrete guy mention you could frame out a perimeter inside the building and do a couple inch leveling pour to resolve. Anybody ever heard of that being done?
Not on an area that is >2,000 sq ft!
On something like a few hundred sq ft MAYBE.
On something like a few hundred sq ft MAYBE.
I work in the concrete industry. This is terrible workmanship. I can't quite tell if what im looking at is the original slab or the self leveling compound. I would have suggested grinding the top before putting up the building. That could possibly be done still. Putting a self leveling, polymer based compound can work and bond sufficiently, however this workmanship looks terrible, so i dont think your current contractor is qualified.
Where are you located?
Where are you located?
The nighttime pictures are from the night of the original pour. The images inside the shop are after they attempted to apply a self leveling compound over a two day period.
I'm in Cuero/Victoria area
I'm in Cuero/Victoria area
I agree depending on how bad the main slab is I think I would just have them remove topping and grind it as long as it is structural it would be way better than it pulling up over time. You can do a 2" slab on top yes with fiberglass in the concrete but depending on use it might not hold up over time. One other option is to install the garage floor coating over the entire slab to hide the poor finish.
If the contractor let the concrete get ahead of him you will probably get delaminations this summer as it looks like he kept forcing it with his concrete trowels and extra water. You probably already have some hollow areas.
Take some chains and drag along, you will tell by a hollow sound.
If you have a lot of vehicle and heavy weight traffic, that self leveler won't hold up.
Take some chains and drag along, you will tell by a hollow sound.
If you have a lot of vehicle and heavy weight traffic, that self leveler won't hold up.
See if the batch plant will send out their quality guy.
AgEngr16 said:
Seems like I'm pretty much screwed…I don't have much faith in the contractor to right the wrong at this point. Just curious but is this something small claims court could handle? I'm guessing I'm in the $7-10k range for concrete resurfacing (grinding and resealing) for a 2000sf area
I had a concrete guy mention you could frame out a perimeter inside the building and do a couple inch leveling pour to resolve. Anybody ever heard of that being done?
Don't waste your time and $100 in filing fees for small claims court. There is no mechanism to ensure payment from the judgment. If you win, the contractor can just refuse to pay you. And then the only way to force payment is to sue him in real court.
Tango.Mike said:AgEngr16 said:
Seems like I'm pretty much screwed…I don't have much faith in the contractor to right the wrong at this point. Just curious but is this something small claims court could handle? I'm guessing I'm in the $7-10k range for concrete resurfacing (grinding and resealing) for a 2000sf area
I had a concrete guy mention you could frame out a perimeter inside the building and do a couple inch leveling pour to resolve. Anybody ever heard of that being done?
Don't waste your time and $100 in filing fees for small claims court. There is no mechanism to ensure payment from the judgment. If you win, the contractor can just refuse to pay you. And then the only way to force payment is to sue him in real court.
Even in real court you end up with a judgment and that doesn't mean you're gonna get them to pay it just means you have a judgment that you have to renew every so often I have a judgment against my ex-wife for over $100,000 and I doubt I'll ever see a dime of it
I don't think that's accurate. At least in real court you get the satisfaction of knowing 1) the sherriff/constable/marshall is required to do more than drive by the house once to see if the car is in the driveway when serving, and 2) you can keep fighting to eventually get a lien for real court judgments. In small claims court they specifically tell you that it is an unenforceable judgment.
I once sued a contractor in small claims. The sherriff said "he wasn't at home" so they couldn't serve. I sent it myself certified mail. Guy just didn't come to court. Won a judgment in absentia. Contractor texted me "I'm never going to pay this." The end.
ETA: But I'm not an attorney
I once sued a contractor in small claims. The sherriff said "he wasn't at home" so they couldn't serve. I sent it myself certified mail. Guy just didn't come to court. Won a judgment in absentia. Contractor texted me "I'm never going to pay this." The end.
ETA: But I'm not an attorney
wage garnishment?
Do they make a big ass machine that can grind off the top level like a giant planer and then polish what's left? I can't believe this is the only ****ty concrete pour in the history of concrete that needs to be fixed post-cure.
But I'm not a concrete guy.
The issue with court and liens is that they never have to be paid except under certain circumstances. I have liens against customers that never paid their final bill and they have had those liens for years. Some people are deadbeats and don't use things that leverage liens. The good news is that they do eventually die. The bad news is that anyone that has had a lien filed on them probably has a history of being a bum and I'm probably well down the list to be paid before the estate funds are exhausted.
In your case, I think you're better off figuring out how to fix it than burning up money trying to force him to. He's already showed you what kind of contractor and person he is. Listen to him.
But I'm not a concrete guy.
The issue with court and liens is that they never have to be paid except under certain circumstances. I have liens against customers that never paid their final bill and they have had those liens for years. Some people are deadbeats and don't use things that leverage liens. The good news is that they do eventually die. The bad news is that anyone that has had a lien filed on them probably has a history of being a bum and I'm probably well down the list to be paid before the estate funds are exhausted.
In your case, I think you're better off figuring out how to fix it than burning up money trying to force him to. He's already showed you what kind of contractor and person he is. Listen to him.
jt2hunt said:Tango.Mike said:AgEngr16 said:
Seems like I'm pretty much screwed…I don't have much faith in the contractor to right the wrong at this point. Just curious but is this something small claims court could handle? I'm guessing I'm in the $7-10k range for concrete resurfacing (grinding and resealing) for a 2000sf area
I had a concrete guy mention you could frame out a perimeter inside the building and do a couple inch leveling pour to resolve. Anybody ever heard of that being done?
Don't waste your time and $100 in filing fees for small claims court. There is no mechanism to ensure payment from the judgment. If you win, the contractor can just refuse to pay you. And then the only way to force payment is to sue him in real court.
Even in real court you end up with a judgment and that doesn't mean you're gonna get them to pay it just means you have a judgment that you have to renew every so often I have a judgment against my ex-wife for over $100,000 and I doubt I'll ever see a dime of it
Businesses don't enjoy the same level of asset protection from judgements that individuals do. If the contractor runs his business as anything but something out of the bed of his personal truck, OP could collect on a judgement and (eventually) a writ of execution to have the sheriff or constable just start taking things and selling them (or seizing back accounts) until the judgement is satisfied. Even if the contractor is a proprietorship, he could go through the same process, though getting non-exempt assets would be a little harder.
I'm gonna need some more pics to decide.
Reminds me of a large residential house slab-on-piers struct.eng designed & inspected on Aggieland's bad clay soils.
Conc.co had a valve stuck feeding the correct mix onto the conveyor belt into the trucks but no 2nd sensor to check the mix (rare locally). Finish was not as bad as yours but not a forever, perfect foundation!
Hi-IQ retired fighter pilot engineer offered Conc.co a deal
Owner rips out slab on his dime
Conc.co supplies new concrete at cost on their dime
Conc.co told him to stick it
In court, the Conc.co was told to stick it
Dealing with an all-in-one mtl.bldg + foundation design/build no longer gets loans in small towns around here unless foundation designed/inspected by licensed engineer/architect as a result of this & other mistakes.
Since USE is not posted, would say you got your money's worth IF use is limited to residential or light duty storage/workshop and a new interior's contractor got to work fixing things to suit.
Of course if you have lawyer money to fight & win for ego, then get a quote. The last time I saw such a fight it was retainer + until by-the-hour got to $10k, then if to court it goes, another retainer of $20k up front.
$30k buys a lot of interior fix happiness IMHO
Sooo sorry!
Conc.co had a valve stuck feeding the correct mix onto the conveyor belt into the trucks but no 2nd sensor to check the mix (rare locally). Finish was not as bad as yours but not a forever, perfect foundation!
Hi-IQ retired fighter pilot engineer offered Conc.co a deal
Owner rips out slab on his dime
Conc.co supplies new concrete at cost on their dime
Conc.co told him to stick it
In court, the Conc.co was told to stick it
Dealing with an all-in-one mtl.bldg + foundation design/build no longer gets loans in small towns around here unless foundation designed/inspected by licensed engineer/architect as a result of this & other mistakes.
Since USE is not posted, would say you got your money's worth IF use is limited to residential or light duty storage/workshop and a new interior's contractor got to work fixing things to suit.
Of course if you have lawyer money to fight & win for ego, then get a quote. The last time I saw such a fight it was retainer + until by-the-hour got to $10k, then if to court it goes, another retainer of $20k up front.
$30k buys a lot of interior fix happiness IMHO
Sooo sorry!
Gotta draw since me got no grammar MasterArch '76
Not sure where you are located, but feel free to reach out to me (Texas Concrete Design- nine79-324-188seven). We have large grinders and have addressed issues such as this.
Chris98 said:
Not sure where you are located, but feel free to reach out to me (Texas Concrete Design- nine79-324-188seven). We have large grinders and have addressed issues such as this.
GRINDERS! I knew it!!!
Oof. Hope that guy is flat-out embarrassed with that work.
If what you see is this bad, how bad is everything else below?
If what you see is this bad, how bad is everything else below?
Well here is the level of incompetence I unfortunately didn't find out about until this process was at its end…
Plus a few daylight pics to show just how terrible it is…guy is proud of his work and is standing behind it
Got a list of his contractor friends that think it's good? That seems handy to have for everyone.
That finish is crap. Anyone who knows anything about concrete can see that. I hope the structure of the slab is good and it holds up. You might like I said grind/ chip that leveler off and just make original slab look good.
On a positive the building looks nice.
On a positive the building looks nice.
Have another concrete guy coming to look at it this week to see what he thinks can be done. I think my aim will be just that…chip off the leveler and grind the original pour to a more flat surface and reseal
The shop part of the build was done well! Even got the Mrs to sign off on the maroon siding
The shop part of the build was done well! Even got the Mrs to sign off on the maroon siding
jt2hunt said:Tango.Mike said:AgEngr16 said:
Seems like I'm pretty much screwed…I don't have much faith in the contractor to right the wrong at this point. Just curious but is this something small claims court could handle? I'm guessing I'm in the $7-10k range for concrete resurfacing (grinding and resealing) for a 2000sf area
I had a concrete guy mention you could frame out a perimeter inside the building and do a couple inch leveling pour to resolve. Anybody ever heard of that being done?
Don't waste your time and $100 in filing fees for small claims court. There is no mechanism to ensure payment from the judgment. If you win, the contractor can just refuse to pay you. And then the only way to force payment is to sue him in real court.
Even in real court you end up with a judgment and that doesn't mean you're gonna get them to pay it just means you have a judgment that you have to renew every so often I have a judgment against my ex-wife for over $100,000 and I doubt I'll ever see a dime of it
Both of these statements are untrue. While collecting a judgment isn't necessarily easy and requires SOME work (at least attempts at post-judgment discovery), you can hire a receiver to take and collect the judgment for you. It will require a petition with the same court and the receiver has tools to collect that most people don't or are unaware of.
Don't let judgments linger. You can also sell them, though you'll get pennies, not even nickels, on the dollar.
Go ape **** online, IF they care about that sort of thing. You can send a demand letter and file a lawsuit, and use that threat and removal of the online stuff as leverage to try and settle.
He is SO good at concrete, I would have him do the trim carpentry and painting in your house too.
"Meets the contract"....ha ha ha
Dudes like this give contracting a terrible name.
Seriously, good luck with this.
"Meets the contract"....ha ha ha
Dudes like this give contracting a terrible name.
Seriously, good luck with this.
ugh. that's brutal. sorry man.
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