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Native Grass Lawn

9,215 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Apache
jaborch99
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S
I live in Kyle (south of Austin). I moved into a house in May of last year that had a lawn that had not been tended to (other than occasional mowing) in a very long time. When I moved in, my plan was to slowly work to establish a St. Augustine/bermudagrass lawn. The past two summers have convinced me that this will be next to impossible.I have not been allowed to water my lawn at all this summer due to drought water restrictions. With more water users coming into the area in droves and increasingly hot and dry summers, I suspect that water restrictions are probably just the new normal, especially in the summer months.

So I've been looking into alternatives. One thing that has caught my eye is using native grasses that require far less water. Something like what they discuss here. I'm just wondering if any of you have any experience with any approach like this and how well it worked as a lawn in a suburban neighborhood.

I expect that the color of the grass will probably not be as dark of a green (but that's better than dead straw and dust like I have now). What I'm not sure of is how it will feel to walk on. Also, would weed & feed-type products kill these grasses?

Any advice is appreciated. I am very much an amateur at this, but I don't want to spend a bunch of time and money trying to establish a lawn that will just die every year.
Apache
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AG
Installed a ton of native grass in the Austin area & am doing some this week in fact.

That said, we do very few lawns because there are drawbacks:
1. Shade. Native grass needs full sun or it will thin out & be replaced by weeds.
2. Traffic tolerance: It can't take as much as Bermuda, St. Aug or Zoysia. Slower to recover.
3. Weeds. You're going to have some... pull by hand or spot treat carefully as herbicides will hurt the natives.
4. Invasion. In good years, your neighbor's Bermuda will invade & do so rapidly. It's hard to keep a clean stand of native grass in the burbs.

I would recommend creating large beds around trees & the perimeters of you lawn to mitigate shade problems & create a buffer from neighboring grass intrusion.

Prep the HECK out of your area prior to seeding. Spray w/Round Up, remove everything & spray again in another week whatever comes back. Don't till. Add an inch of lightly composted soil to topdress & rake smooth. Install the seed & use a roller or rake to bury slightly. Water 2-3x per day lightly to keep everything from drying out. Don't water so much it will wash away.

Watch your drainage off the house & gutters, a heavy rain can blow out all your hard work.

It takes a lot of work to establish a native lawn & we're running out of time to get installed. You've got about 2 weeks max to get it down or you'll have to wait until next April. Good luck
10andBOUNCE
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AG
Buffalograss comes to mind
Quad Dog
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AG
I've always thought a native yard would be a better choice. Especially with climate change and water restrictions. But my HOA would hate it.

Reminds me of this old email forward joke:
Quote:

GOD: Francis, you know all about gardens and nature. What's going on down there in Kansas? I don't see the dandelions, violets, thistle etc. that I started eons ago. I had a perfect, no-maintenance garden plan. Plants that withstand heat, drought, cold and high wind, multiply with abandon and grow in any type of soil. Nectar from the blossoms attracts pollinators and flocks of songbirds. I've expected to see a vast garden of colors by now, but all I see are green rectangles!

ST. FRANCIS: It's the humans that settled there Lord, the Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers "weeds" and now go to great lengths to kill and replace them with "lawns."

GOD: (curiously) Lawns? Well, that's mostly just green. Where are the butterflies, birds and insects? Those pristine lawns require pesticides and herbicides and they're temperamental with temperature and moisture. Is that what Suburbanites really want?

ST. FRANCIS: (trying to appease) Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing non-native grass and poisoning other plants which crop up in the lawn.

GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make the grass grow really fast. Does that make the Suburbanites happy?

ST. FRANCIS: (sheepishly) Apparently not Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it … sometimes twice a week.

GOD: They cut it !?! They must bale it like hay.

ST. FRANCIS: Well not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up, but then they put it in plastic bags.

GOD: Plastic bags? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?


ST. FRANCIS: No Sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

GOD: Okay, let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. When it does, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?

ST: FRANCIS: Yes Sir.

GOD: Surely the Suburbanites are relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat slowing the grass growth. Saves them a lot of work.

ST. FRANCIS: (nervous chuckle) You aren't going to believe this, Lord. When the grass stops growing as fast, they turn on their sprinkler systems and pay for extra water in order to grow it, mow it and pay again to throw it … away.

GOD: Even though they've not kept the free flowers I provided, at least they've kept some of the native trees. That particular creation was a stroke of genius if I do say so myself. They put forth leaves in the spring, which provide beauty and shade in the summer. In autumn, the leaves fall to the ground and form natural mulch which keeps moisture in the soil, protecting not only the tree itself but shrubs and perennials nearby. Plus, those same leaves turn to compost, nourishing the soil.

ST. FRANCIS: (apologetically) You'd better sit down, Lord. (clearing his throat) As soon as the leaves drop, the Suburbanites rake them into piles, put them into plastic bags and pay to have them hauled away.

GOD: (unbelieving) NO! What do they do to protect vegetative roots in the winter and keep soil moist and loose?

ST. FRANCIS: After disposing of the leaves, they go out and buy something labeled mulch, haul it home and spread it around the trees and shrubs.

GOD: Where do they get this "mulch"?

ST. FRANCIS: (matter of fact) Well, they cut down trees and grind them up.

TikkaShooter
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Listen to Apache.

I have a 2/3 acre hill of Habiturf, but I'm out in the sticks and was able to to start with a fresh clean slate after a home build (brought in soil, etc). I have no neighbors with Bermuda. I have a water well that I was able to pump from to irrigate and get it going. Full sun, south facing open hillside.

I love it, but I dont think its right for a burb home with traffic, shade, etc.
jaborch99
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S
Apache said:

Installed a ton of native grass in the Austin area & am doing some this week in fact.

That said, we do very few lawns because there are drawbacks:
1. Shade. Native grass needs full sun or it will thin out & be replaced by weeds.
2. Traffic tolerance: It can't take as much as Bermuda, St. Aug or Zoysia. Slower to recover.
3. Weeds. You're going to have some... pull by hand or spot treat carefully as herbicides will hurt the natives.
4. Invasion. In good years, your neighbor's Bermuda will invade & do so rapidly. It's hard to keep a clean stand of native grass in the burbs.

I would recommend creating large beds around trees & the perimeters of you lawn to mitigate shade problems & create a buffer from neighboring grass intrusion.

Prep the HECK out of your area prior to seeding. Spray w/Round Up, remove everything & spray again in another week whatever comes back. Don't till. Add an inch of lightly composted soil to topdress & rake smooth. Install the seed & use a roller or rake to bury slightly. Water 2-3x per day lightly to keep everything from drying out. Don't water so much it will wash away.

Watch your drainage off the house & gutters, a heavy rain can blow out all your hard work.

It takes a lot of work to establish a native lawn & we're running out of time to get installed. You've got about 2 weeks max to get it down or you'll have to wait until next April. Good luck
Thanks Apache. Sounds like it may not be the best option for the 'burbs. You seem very knowledgeable in this area. If not native grasses, and if I can't water enough to keep a St. Augustine/Bermuda lawn alive, what would you recommend? Feeling kind of hopeless at this point.
tgivaughn
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AG
As for me, only the septic lines have full sun and only grow grass from that moisture when not August or this summer or freeze months. The rest of "lawn" has shade trees, so these are beds or leaves akin to a forest floor.

I plan NOT to use our salty drinking water for lawns and minimal mowing for the last decade. With more money, would spread a lot of rock, gravel, rough mulch all about to dress things up.


My 2-cents
Apache is dead on and best if you hired him to design/build after a discussion of options and maybe some sketches or lawn staking. This is not a DIY for even an advanced, experoienced beginner like me considering drought conditions that usually come in 3s-4s since ... '88 or beyond.

Ten words or less ... a goal unattainable
MikesFamousJava
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AG
OP, you might enjoy visiting the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center in SW Austin (about 20-25 minutes from Kyle). It has been a while since I've visited, but they used to have some plantings/demo areas of native grasses including a seed mix they sell.

https://www.wildflower.org
CrawfordAg
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AG
Take a look at thunder turf. It's a mix of buffalo, blue grama and curly mesquite. I have heard good things about it for our area. I am looking at doing the same, currently living on 1.5 acres in Buda with an HOA. I have spent thousands over the past 3 years with aerating, top dressing, pre/post emergent to only let it go dormant) die off over the summer. We have been in stage 3 restrictions since June. We are expecting a large Tesla factory and 2 subdivisions with an additional 2,000 homes in the next few years so a nice lawn might be a pipe dream.

Here's the link if you want to look into it.

https://seedsource.com/thunder-turf/
krosch11
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AG
Man I really like the look of that. I need to research this.
Apache
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AG
It's no silver bullet. All the warnings I have apply.
Another is that if you want that thunder turf lawn to be really drought tolerant, it needs to grown taller than the average lawn.
southernboy1
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AG
I'm intrigued. I have been looking for a way to get this started on about 5 acres around the place. How does one go about weed control. I could me mistaken but aren't natives knocked out but turf herbicides there something safe that will take care of things like stickers and goat heads.
Dogdoc
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AG
Celsius WG can be used on Buffalograss.
Beckdiesel03
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AG
Like above I've been fighting to keep st.Augustine alive in our yard since 2007 in New Braunfels. Droughts and water restrictions, freezes, dogs and kid traffic and thousands of dollars and just time and energy wasted. TARR is now wiping it out. I had Bermuda coming in pretty good and taking over earlier this summer before the rain stopped. I'm over it. Saving money to go to xeriscaping and fake turf for the kids and labs. F this crap. How high do you have to keep the native mentioned above? I think that would probably drive me crazy though.
krosch11
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AG
I feel your pain in NB . After 1.5 years of reclaiming Bermuda from the crab grass the droughts hit. Resigned to just let the weeds have it and keep it mowed neat. Would love to try buffalo grass but I've been told it's not as hearty as advertised .
Apache
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AG
Quote:

How high do you have to keep the native mentioned above?
4" plus is preferred IMO, but I've seen literature state it can be kept to 2-3". I don't recommend it.
Natives don't do well with heavy traffic such as kids constantly playing & dogs running trails around perimeter, nor do they like much fertilizer. Fertilizer & overwatering will lead to an abundance of weeds.
Beckdiesel03
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AG
Yep I reread your post after I had typed that out and noticed you said it's a no go for high traffic. Thank you very much for the insight. Fake grass, rocks and weeds it is!
B-1 83
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AG
Apache said:

It's no major bullet. All the warnings I have apply.
Another is that if you want that thunder turf lawn to be really drought tolerant, it needs to grown taller than the average lawn.

Amen! Folks love the native concept, but when those blue grama seedheads start popping out, and it goes to its natural bunch grass tendency, they can't seem to help themselves and want it to look like Bermudagrass. 3-4 inches is minimum for sure.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
MRB10
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AG
I've had good experiences with emerald zoysia. It's not nearly as thirsty as Bermuda and st Augustine and is super drought tolerant due to the deep root system. It'll survive it just about any condition other than total shade.
tgivaughn
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AG
Ask Apache about this Neil Sperry favorite
http://rb.gy/sz2n9
and send some area photos to take off an advisor's blindfold
Ten words or less ... a goal unattainable
FDXAg
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AG
I saw someone mentioning emerald Zoysia. I'll throw my recommendation in for Zoysia, though I went with the Zeon cultivar. Zeon is often considered the "Cadillac of turf" as it's an improved variety that carries many of the traits of other fine blade Zoysia's like emerald, but has even more improved shade and drought tolerance. Can mow it like a golf course at 1/8" if you want with a reel mower, but I prefer a normal rotary and keeping the HOC around 2 to 2.5". My wife prefers the cushy carpet feel where your feet sink in as you walk.

One side of my lawn only gets about 3 hours of sun a day due to my 2 story house and the large live oak in my neighbor's yard at the corner of my property line. I loved my Bermuda, but it wouldn't grow there with such minimal sun. I hate St. Augustine so that wasn't an option and I didn't want two grass types in my backyard. After a lot of research, I laid down 4 pallets of Zeon in mid-June and couldn't be happier. Obviously the crazy hot summer and lack of rain wasn't ideal, but this grass is tough and resilient and I've been seriously impressed so far. It's a slow-spreading grass though, so keep that in mind. You need to fully sod because it'll probably take years to spread out and cover any bare areas.

This pic was taken about 2 weeks ago.

Jabin
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In order to replace an established lawn with Zoysia, I assume that one would have to kill all the existing grass with Roundup or the like, till the soil over the entire yard, and then install turf? Or is there a better way?
tgivaughn
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AG
Impressed!
Location or zip code?
Water bill/month?
Ten words or less ... a goal unattainable
FDXAg
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Yes I killed the existing lawn with Roundup. Two different applications a few weeks apart. I didn't till the soil but I did put down a couple soil amendments to help loosen the soil up. Then brought in 3 yards of topsoil to fill low areas of areas that were just above rock. That's it.

Zoysia is so dense and thick that it will choke out most weeds.
FDXAg
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AG
NW Fort Worth...76179

Water bill was heavy first 2 months. But I also have 5 people in my house, including 3 teenage daughters that like long showers, so that's part of the water bill. Was around $350 in July and August, and down to $270 for September. That was just to combat the super high temperatures and basically no measurable rain through most of the summer.

This grass will require less overall water moving forward, and I'm reducing water on it already as we get into fall here. It's critical in the first 3 months after laying sod to keep it from ever drying out so the roots can get fully developed.
TexDill15
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AG
You do the soil work and sod laying yourself or hire it out?
FDXAg
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I did it all myself....well, with help from my wife. I'll say this, it was a lot more work than I was expecting to do the prep work and actual sod laying for 4 pallets. Then again, it was about 103 that day so that was part of the difficulty.

You can get quotes but they're usually very high for the actual prep and install. There's no rocket science to it but it is a lot of manual labor. I rented a sod roller to help ensure good contact with the soil and a more even lay. But other than that, I saved at least a couple grand doing the work myself.
jaborch99
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S
I have some beautiful live oaks in my yard that I would hate to damage. I assume Round Up should be avoided in my case. How can I kill the existing weeds/grass without damaging my trees?
FDXAg
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AG
Round up really shouldn't do damage to large, established trees. You aren't applying enough to soak into the ground and actually be absorbed into tree roots below the surface. It doesn't take but just a surface spray of Roundup to kill off grass.

Follow the established application rates and do multiple applications a few weeks apart and you'll be fine and risk no damage to your trees. (But do it on a non-windy day and be careful you don't get the spray onto foliage of bushes, flowers, etc)
B-1 83
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AG
Roundup will do zero to established trees when used under them (or even on the trunk, for that matter).
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Apache
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Bonus S (weed & feed) which has Atrazine & is pushed by Scott's & the big box stores is worse around trees than Round Up.
Applied at the wrong time of year it can severely damage trees.
gratitudeandacceptance
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Apache, we're about to close on our house in Spring Branch (north side of Canyon Lake). We plan to only irrigate flower beds and not a lawn. Buffalograss sounds perfect but what do we do in the winter if we can't sow until April? We'll have fresh top soil as a result of the builder's final grade.
Apache
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AG
Get some perennial rye seed, lay it on heavy asap & lightly rake it it. Water it enough to keep damp & you'll get the soil stabilized pretty quickly.
In April when things start to heat up the rye will begin to die off. Weed Eat it down to bare dirt & then seed with your native mix. Same deal as before, lightly rake in & keep watered. It will take longer to germinate than rye or bermuda. Whatever you do, don't let it dry out once you start watering.

Also, be cautious of your gutters if you have them, they will blow out that new soil your builder put down.
Buy a roll or two of 4" Solid ADS pipe & extend your gutters out above grade beyond the new soil area (if at all possible)
gratitudeandacceptance
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Thanks!
gratitudeandacceptance
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Are there any native grass seeds that can be sown now? We're on an acre and are just trying to get something to grow in the front of our recent build that has been pummeled by trucks.
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