Our 16 year old Lennox units (2.5 ton and 3.5 ton, both 13 seer) are both leaking pretty bad. Tech recommends replacing both plenums, plenum coils and both outside units, leaving the current furnaces and blowers. Choosing the model/brand is where the decision has to be made. The company we will likely go with offers Lennox and Amana/Goodman. Cost for each option is essentially the same.

Lennox - 17 seer, quieter and not as hard of a start and stop. An independent handyman/AC guy that I know has hesitations about the quality of the coils in Lennox units.

Goodman/Amana - 14.5 seer, "consensus" higher quality build, hard start and stop (loud and harder on the motor). Goodman was specifically recommended for this reason alone by my friend.

I don't know enough about HVAC to decipher the fine details. Even with the 14.5 seer rating, which is low by todays standard, it would still be an upgrade from our current units in terms of efficiency.

I think the biggest concern I have is switching from copper coils and lower pressure R22 to aluminum and whatever the new high pressure refrigerant is, which is pretty much all that is offered now.

What day you HI board? Thanks in advance.

Where are you located

I would not be afraid of the aluminum coils and higher pressure 410A that most manufacturers are using. I wouldn't give you a Lennox for free that's how positive I feel about them. Additionally I don't know how your guy is telling you you'd get 17 Seer just changing the coil and condenser, that's not how that works. It may be equipment in the 17 Seer line but without an AHRI certificate with your existing furnace listed you're just guessing on efficiency and I'd bet it won't be near 17 Seer.
As of 1-1-23 you can't buy "SEER" AC systems anyway, everything non heat pump has to be "SEER 2" now.
I'm not a Amana/Goodman/Daikin fan by any stretch of the imagination but for the price point their units fill a niche.
At the end of the day though it all boils down to who installs it and who services it. Every single brand available has pros and cons but what I see cause more failures than anything is a bad install/start up. Find someone local that knows what they're doing and go with them.

In Aggieland, Job1 is to find 5-star reviews (out of 5) installers, else even top-o-line equipment cannot perform as well as tested. Search first by top-o-line equipment, e.g Trane, Am.Std, etc. (Consumer Reports). You may already have a good one in that they a) found the main problem to correct, b) found a way to save you repairs money ... in the Short Run. If money is paramount, then I agree & choose the Lennox option & The End.

My history contains 2 Carrier heat pumps lasting 20yrs with top-o-line installers & maintenance.
At 16yo and my goals to live in house another 16+ years, then I would replace the problem areas and the old units, inspect the ducts/et al. and install new Trane hi-SEER Variable systems ASAP .... 100F+ THIS WEEK it begins. Email me for more advice.

I posted this on another A/C thread. I replaced a Trane with a Goodman. I think if the label could show a lower efficiency rating, it would. It does have a hard start, and is pretty loud outside, but it's location prevents that from being an issue. It was considerably less expensive than other brands, and came with a lifetime parts and labor warranty. Additionally, I have not noticed any increase in my electric bill. Mine is a heat pump if that matters. And yes, they replaced everything.

88agswin said:

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Where are you located

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Katy

Thanks for all of the info, it's been a whirlwind trying to decide with the temps what they are and will be for awhile.

Money is one concern, but not the be all end all in the decision. I don't want to still pay 5 figures for junk, but not looking to double the price for top of the line.

The company we are working with currently is Bill Anderson AC, but nothing has been decided or signed. We only paid the service/diagnostic fee. No concerns this far, the tech was very informative and easy to work with. They are a local family owned company that was recommended by my neighbor. We had used Absolute Comfort for annual checkups and routine repairs in the past (capacitors, etc.). They were the first to come out and initial estimate from them was about double what Anderson's was (albeit that was to replace everything except duct work).

AgAcGuy12 said:

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I wouldn't give you a Lennox for free that's how positive I feel about them.

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Mind clarifying this?

It's not good equipment. They still are struggling with refrigerant leaks, their parts are overpriced (just paid $748 for a condenser fan motor that failed at 3.5 years old, should be warranty but I'm having to fight them) and I don't trust their quality. 1990s Lennox was the best, early 2000s Trane was the best, currently I'd place Rheem/Carrier at the top. But like I said previously, installer and commissioning is more important than the brand.

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Money is one concern, but not the be all end all in the decision. I don't want to still pay 5 figures for junk, but not looking to double the price for top of the line.

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We all have our preferences, but if I still had functioning R22 systems and all that was the matter with them was a leaking coil I'd get a price on just replacing the coil. The last time I had that done, it was about $1,200 including the R22.

Now, R22 is more expensive than it was a several years ago (along with all refrigerants it seems) but R407C is a drop-in replacement (almost) for R22 that runs at the same relatively low pressures and is quite a bit cheaper.

EPA prohibits the mixing of refrigerants by techs, so you're not suppose to add R407C to a system containing any R22 (without removing all it first). But, that doesn't mean techs haven't been mixing the two to save themselves some money. Some are more professional and scrupulous than others, let's say. Surprise, surprise.

Just something to think about -- if you want new A/C's, buy some, of course.

Ribeye-Rare said:

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Money is one concern, but not the be all end all in the decision. I don't want to still pay 5 figures for junk, but not looking to double the price for top of the line.

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We all have our preferences, but if I still had functioning R22 systems and all that was the matter with them was a leaking coil I'd get a price on just replacing the coil. The last time I had that done, it was about $1,200 including the R22.

Now, R22 is more expensive than it was a several years ago (along with all refrigerants it seems) but R407C is a drop-in replacement (almost) for R22 that runs at the same relatively low pressures and is quite a bit cheaper.

EPA prohibits the mixing of refrigerants by techs, so you're not suppose to add R407C to a system containing any R22 (without removing all it first). But, that doesn't mean techs haven't been mixing the two to save themselves some money. Some are more professional and scrupulous than others, let's say. Surprise, surprise.

Just something to think about -- if you want new A/C's, buy some, of course.

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About a month ago, I paid more for 7# of R22 between the two units, than you paid for a new coil plus refrigerant. Initial inspection could not find a leak, and it appeared to be holding pressure, so we went that route first because we had family coming to stay with us the next few days for graduation.

1208HawkTree said:

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Ribeye-Rare said:

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About a month ago, I paid more for 7# of R22 between the two units, than you paid for a new coil plus refrigerant. Initial inspection could not find a leak, and it appeared to be holding pressure, so we went that route first because we had family coming to stay with us the next few days for graduation.

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Man, I'm sorry to hear that.

FWIW, the wholesale price of a 30lb cylinder of R22 is now up to about $1,200, or about $40/pound.

30lb Cylinder R22

Now, I'm NOT saying they should have sold it to you for $280.00. Absolutely not.

That company has to pay the tech, the truck, the overhead, the seasonal nature of the work, and all the other BS that comes from sending guys out in trucks and being responsible for their work.

But, how much is a 1-hour service call to hook up gauges, gas it, and go worth? -- $400? / $500 / $600 / more?

See my point?

And, the R407C alternative to R22 I mentioned is less than $20/pound.

{FWIW, due to government regulation, refrigerants how been priced beyond belief. I've got a mostly full 30lb cylinder of R22 here that still has the receipt attached to it. It's been 20 years, but it cost me $150 for the whole thing}.

Good luck on getting to where you need to be. When a man has a wife and family that he needs to keep cool and the A/C goes out during the middle of a Texas summer, I'm afraid some 'techs' will view that as hunting season. Not all, mind you, but some.

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(just paid $748 for a condenser fan motor that failed at 3.5 years old, should be warranty but I'm having to fight them)

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We have one unit that is a little over 5 years old with a 10 year parts warranty. Compressor went out over a week ago. We love our dealer - he's doing everything he can - BUT they don't have a replacement. Period. Lennox said they'd give us a good deal on a new one - LOL. I've talked to a million people at Lennox and all are "talk to your dealer". Our dealer has brought window units while we try to figure this out, but I'm pretty sure they are not gonna handle this upcoming heat wave for the whole house.

Our options are: 1) buy a new unit (won't be a Lennox) 2) wait for the back ordered compressor with no idea when that would come in or 3) Our dealer is ordering - at his own cost - some other compressor that will work with some minor changes. That one will void the rest of our Lennox warranty but the way I figure it - WHAT Lennox warranty?!?!

UPDATE: Well, well, well.... our dealer threatened to pull a big order from them and suddenly they are going to reimburse him for the compressor he found elsewhere. They are not going to void our warranty either.

Does not surprise me. Friend of mines father in law is a fair sized Lennox dealer on the coast. The AC he installed in their house 6 years ago developed a Freon leak so large you could hear it. He had just sold his company but was still employed there and Lennox wouldn't find him a coil. Friend calls me and asks if I could help. Lennox gave me the same story. Friend called Lennox and they laughed at him and said when they get one they'd let him know. I called our local Armstrong distributor (Lennox stepchild brand) and they had a coil in Huntsville and were willing to process the warranty for me for $100 fee. Friends wife drove to Huntsville and got it and I had them cool again a day later after they'd suffered for a week. Since then her dad has gotten them two new compressors, new blower motors and a new evap coil for the other system, all "under warranty" of course. So now I can rebuild their AC system again when it fails lol! I hate Lennox!

Edit: I failed to acknowledge your verifying of what I've harped about on here more than anything. Every brand will fail, go with the company that supports you the best. Sounds like your dealer is a good one…….. even if he sells Lennox ;^)

He also sells heil units and we've put them in some rentals. What's your take on those? Carrier made, right?

Correct, one of Carriers step children. Decent equipment. I haven't seen their most recent version but their older condensers were basically a Carrier with out the hail guard style louvers around the condenser. Make sure they set the refrigerant right and you'll be fine.