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3 car garage span framing question

2,280 Views | 14 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Belton Ag
Olag00
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AG
From the photos below, it seems this may be an older way of trying to do truss framing. I plan to get an engineer out unless there is a lot of people with experience in this type of framing saying it is good. I am in the process of a full house reno and I just closed 2 or 3 weeks ago so just getting started. When I originally looked at the house I was thinking the previous owners just installed the wall down the middle of garage to try and create a work shop type area but keep in mind there is a large shop already on the property. The wall is right in the middle of the garage which means the middle garage door can't be opened. The garages are three single doors. I looked in the attic today and noticed the framing is 2x4s and in this "spoke" type framing. After seeing this now I am thinking the owners had to install the partition to actually support the spans. The width is 28'-6 with 2x4 construction on 24" centers.

None load bearing or bearing?



JP76
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Does the wall run parallel or perpendicular to the trusses/joist ?

What is the length and width of the garage ?
Olag00
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AG
See below for a sketch. I am thinking about doing a type of gusset plate shown below to help stiffen the middle of span.

Flaith
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AG
Not a structural engineer, but it looks like a king truss design that may rely on point loading that interior wall instead of spreading the roof load out to the exterior walls. I would get an engineer to look at beam sizes, etc. before removing the wall.

Edit: just saw that the wall isn't directly under the middle of the truss and lining up with the vertical king posts? If that's the case, then I'm less inclined to think it is necessary or load bearing.
Olag00
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AG
That is correct, the "support wall" doesn't line up under the truss point loads and it doesn't extend the entire length.
TexAg1987
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That wall was added after the fact. Not saying that it is not needed to support the ceiling/roof, but it is not original construction.

Milwaukees Best Light
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AG
I think that is a vanity wall. The studs look too far apart to bear a load.

And it looks like the garage door might open. The door doesn't open all the way up to the opener. I bet the wall is about 2" from where the door stops on the track. But, just a guess from a couple photos on my phone.
tgivaughn
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AG
Most engineers out of school may not visit a residential grage attic these days but if the lumber yard can refer a top framer, you might have a solution & someone to getRdone ASAP.

I think I see the SOP 2x6@24"oc rafters but it's hard to see & believe any homebuilder would use JOISTS 2x4@24"oc and pass inspection. More data on joists might gain some opinions to take to your framer-to-be for discussion.

Now also figure weight of future storage up there, be it 8psf or 20psf?

If anyone suggests a center beam where wall removed was .... then you'll need to find out center door header size, which might not make it, since it already supports a door and some of the attic/roof.
Olag00
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AG
Just to clarify, the rafters are 2x6's, the joists are 2x4's, both 24" OC.

ETA: no storage considerations will be in attic.
Olag00
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AG
Pictures are worth a thousand words.
JP76
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The 28' 6" 2x4 is 1 board ? Or spliced at what span ?

I just reframed a small house that had trusses like this but the span is only 25 ft and the trusses are all 2x6 including the bottom joist which was rebuilt using a 26 ft 2x6. Beam down the middle is an option but as Mr Vaughn mentioned the header may need upgrading above the middle door to support the extra load. You could also take vertical measurements along that wall and then slowly start pulling out the vertical studs and see how much the truss drops.
Olag00
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AG
It looks like there is probably a total of (3) 2x4s on the 28'-6 wall. I can't get a good look at the far side but the photo below shows the sistering on the near side.

I may try the reciprocating saw test where if I cut the studs away from the top plate hopefully the blade doesn't get pinched due to the downward pressure. I will also due the measuring as well.

I do plan to rip down the ceiling drywall so at that point I can see if sisterimg 2x6s is an option or the center beam. I just filled up first dumpster and need to wait for second one to start the drywall and insulation removal.
tgivaughn
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AG
http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl
fun little calculator but don't bet your life on it
few variables need changing, the 25 & 7 psf are OK in our neck of the woods for roof loads, no storage
then get that framer involved if no local engineer can be bothered to help

http://www.cascade-mfg-co.com/files/media/rooftrussspanchart.pdf
The Fife
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I had similar screwyness with the garage at my place. It was originally a carport that someone turned into a garage in the late '70s. There used to be two old school train bridge trusses running from side to side that someone decided to turn into a loft that they overloaded pretty badly. The rafters and stick built trusses were getting pretty spooky; lots of cracking and splitting showing up with noticeable growth year over year.

The solution was what you see here. Two beams running the depth (~30'), two columns added because going with steel would have been a monumental expense, and a couple of beams tying things together. Not pictured is a loft that's properly engineered. Rafters were sistered where damaged, otherwise they're as-built in the '60s.

I'm not sure if opening things up would make sense in your case, but you can get an idea of what was done here to support everything. Overall width of the garage is about 33 or 34'.


Belton Ag
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AG
Late to the party but those look like some kind of site built trusses that are original to the home. I wouldn't be surprised if the wall was added long after the fact because the ceiling was probably sagging at the time. The placement of the wall may have had to do with convenience, or consideration for how the garage was being used at the time.

I would not remove the wall.
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