Cross posted on the San Antonio board but want to hear your thoughts.

My wife and I are toying with the idea of getting a water softener. We have never had one - house was built in the 1970s. We live in New Braunfels - and are tired of the hard water build up on toilets, fixtures, etc.

We do need to get plumbed for one - so I realize that raises the price.

Question - is it worth it? Should we get one?

Should I let the plumber do the work to plumb it and supply the Fleck one that is popular on Amazon for them to install?

Biggest question is should we get one but interested in any thoughts.

I'm in a home with my first water softener. It is 100% worth it. You mentioned some of the benefits for the plumbing system.

Other items to know:
In the shower, all soap and shampoo suds significantly better.
Your clothes will be softer after a wash.
Dishes will have significantly less spots if any.

These are what I have noticed at least. If you can get to your water supply line I would advocate just installing it yourself. It's nothing more than just tapping into the PVC.

Thanks - unfortunately the pipes are tough to find. I did have a plumbing company come find where it tees into the house to make sure we don't install it into the irrigation. That tee is on the front elevation in the middle of the house.

If I want to put it in the garage, it is about 50' of trenching, including under a sidewalk (or driveway - but to be easier, putting it under the sidewalk). The goal would then be to tie into our washer/dryer wash out by running pipes through the attic.

I have replaced solenoids, laid minor piping for irrigation, but never something like this. Maybe it is easier than my mind is imagining (minus the trenching, I know the work that entails).

Good to know that it seems to be worth it in general. Any other opinions?

wmitchell said:

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Thanks - unfortunately the pipes are tough to find. I did have a plumbing company come find where it tees into the house to make sure we don't install it into the irrigation. That tee is on the front elevation in the middle of the house.

If I want to put it in the garage, it is about 50' of trenching, including under a sidewalk (or driveway - but to be easier, putting it under the sidewalk). The goal would then be to tie into our washer/dryer wash out by running pipes through the attic.

I have replaced solenoids, laid minor piping for irrigation, but never something like this. Maybe it is easier than my mind is imagining (minus the trenching, I know the work that entails).

Good to know that it seems to be worth it in general. Any other opinions?

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What does this mean? I wouldn't run the waste line uphill.

We added softner to current house two years ago. It's in our garage and we had about 75' of trenching to connect to the supply and drain in front of the house. Had one in our previous house for ten years, but that house had a basement so it was much easier. Due to lack of chlorine, showers and toilets turn pink pretty fast if you don't clean frequently.

I like having a softener and it also eliminated the strong chlorine smell when Plano's water is "flushed".

Yes. It's worth it. And it will be way harder than you imagine. I ended up going with a Clack system. I've had fleck, I've rebuilt them, I like them but they are pretty complicated and not overly easy to rebuild. They also make many of their valves out of brass, one they corroded which can take a toll on the ability for the valves and rings to seal if you have it long enough to rebuilt. I typically have to rebuild around 15-20 years. This time around I went with a dual tank Clack valve. I like it a lot better. I actually bought it from a dealer that someone here on texags recommended as an Aggie. It was not cheap. At all. But, you also may not need or want to have a dual tank design. For me, they delivered it and I installed it along with my UV system. It's been really great and uses very litttle salt. I've filled it once in two years and that's with a family of 4 and sometimes 6. I also bought a clack backwash filter along with it so that added to the cost.

Anyway, yes, it's worth it. I don't know how people live without them myself and whether you DIY or hire it out, whatever they charge it's worth it.

Whichever brand you go with, be aware of the requirement for discharge water when it regenerates. Make sure you have a drain. If you are in the city then you need to probably put it somewhere appropriate. If you aren't then you have a lot more options. Mine discharges into a couple of pits because I don't have anywhere else to send it. I do the same with my washing machine but that actually pipes out to pits that are used to irrigate citrus trees but that's beside the point.

rme said:

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wmitchell said:

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Thanks - unfortunately the pipes are tough to find. I did have a plumbing company come find where it tees into the house to make sure we don't install it into the irrigation. That tee is on the front elevation in the middle of the house.

If I want to put it in the garage, it is about 50' of trenching, including under a sidewalk (or driveway - but to be easier, putting it under the sidewalk). The goal would then be to tie into our washer/dryer wash out by running pipes through the attic.

I have replaced solenoids, laid minor piping for irrigation, but never something like this. Maybe it is easier than my mind is imagining (minus the trenching, I know the work that entails).

Good to know that it seems to be worth it in general. Any other opinions?

---

What does this mean? I wouldn't run the waste line uphill.

We added softner to current house two years ago. It's in our garage and we had about 75' of trenching to connect to the supply and drain in front of the house. Had one in our previous house for ten years, but that house had a basement so it was much easier. Due to lack of chlorine, showers and toilets turn pink pretty fast if you don't clean frequently.

I like having a softener and it also eliminated the strong chlorine smell when Plano's water is "flushed".

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I am not super familiar but I think this is for the discharge of water when it regenerates.

It would be running up to my attic then over to where my washing machine flushes out. Both companies I have had out (one plumber, one water softener company) both said that was what they would do.

Would you suggest trenching back to the main wash out at the street? That is not near where the water tees into the house that we would use. Definitely would add labor but want to do it right.

The plumber and company know more than I do. I wouldn't have thought to run the regen line up. I guess the regen flow has water pressure behind it. I was able to use the same trench for water and regen lines for my install so didn't have to think about how it works.

Both companies suggested it so I think there must be pressure as well.

Thanks for the input!

Correct. There are no pumps in these systems. They all run off of line pressure and valves moving things to different places.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. Likewise, if you can push water up to the attic, it can push regen waste as well.

I've had a Kinetico Softener for 20+ years. Absolutely Zero maintenance.
One of the best items I've ever purchased.
Also have an under counter reverse osmosis filter for drinking water and ice maker. Another trouble free product.

All were made in America.

Interesting. I just always assumed Kineticos were top of the line, high priced. Maybe I need to talk to them.

Any suggestions on brands outside of Kinetico? I need to ask the plumbing company what brand they use.

Animal Eight 84 said:

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I've had a Kinetico Softener for 20+ years. Absolutely Zero maintenance.
One of the best items I've ever purchased.
Also have an under counter reverse osmosis filter for drinking water and ice maker. Another trouble free product.

All were made in America.

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Maintenance free? Interesting. How do these work without salt?

ForeverAg said:

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I'm in a home with my first water softener. It is 100% worth it. You mentioned some of the benefits for the plumbing system.

Other items to know:
In the shower, all soap and shampoo suds significantly better.
Your clothes will be softer after a wash.
Dishes will have significantly less spots if any.

These are what I have noticed at least. If you can get to your water supply line I would advocate just installing it yourself. It's nothing more than just tapping into the PVC.

---

Cons.
If your water was very hard to start with, your resulting softened water is going to have a lot of residual sodium in and your plumbing fixtures will take a beating.

Cromagnum said:

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ForeverAg said:

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I'm in a home with my first water softener. It is 100% worth it. You mentioned some of the benefits for the plumbing system.

Other items to know:
In the shower, all soap and shampoo suds significantly better.
Your clothes will be softer after a wash.
Dishes will have significantly less spots if any.

These are what I have noticed at least. If you can get to your water supply line I would advocate just installing it yourself. It's nothing more than just tapping into the PVC.

---

Cons.
If your water was very hard to start with, your resulting softened water is going to have a lot of residual sodium in and your plumbing fixtures will take a beating.

---

How so?

We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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Animal Eight 84 said:

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I've had a Kinetico Softener for 20+ years. Absolutely Zero maintenance.
One of the best items I've ever purchased.
Also have an under counter reverse osmosis filter for drinking water and ice maker. Another trouble free product.

All were made in America.

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Maintenance free? Interesting. How do these work without salt?

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Salt is a consumable.

Not a permanent component requiring repair ( maintenance).

Much like putting gasoline in an automobile's tank.

HackerAg said:

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We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

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Lol. I don't know what the answer actually is but I've had three softeners in several houses and one of them was close to 30 years old and none have ever had resin beads replaced. It's like changing the nitrogen out in your tires.

If you get a quality softener it will have quality components and you won't have issues. You can spend as much as you want on this. Culligan and others are going to cost a lot of money for the same thing you can get from a quality distributor for a lot less. If you make sure it has a fleck or clack valve, it's going to last decades with absolutely no interference at all other the the addition of salt.

HackerAg said:

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We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

---

I was curious since the resin beads in my Kinetico softener are 20+ years old.
So I had Kinetico tech come out and test the water.
Ion exchange performance was still producing water in specification.
He said that is typical on their units.

Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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HackerAg said:

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We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

---

Lol. I don't know what the answer actually is but I've had three softeners in several houses and one of them was close to 30 years old and none have ever had resin beads replaced. It's like changing the nitrogen out in your tires.

If you get a quality softener it will have quality components and you won't have issues. You can spend as much as you want on this. Culligan and others are going to cost a lot of money for the same thing you can get from a quality distributor for a lot less. If you make sure it has a fleck or clack valve, it's going to last decades with absolutely no interference at all other the the addition of salt.

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Thanks! That is great news, 30 years is a long time. We did buy to the top-of-the-line DuPure water softener because we didn't know much about them when the house was being built. The unit did have a maintenance alarm that can be set after a certain number of gallons, so I guess that's optional.

We put the softener (which was outside) in a shed to protect the exposed pipes from freezing & sun damage.

Animal Eight 84 said:

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HackerAg said:

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We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

---

I was curious since the resin beads in my Kinetico softener are 20+ years old.
So I had Kinetico tech come out and test the water.
Ion exchange performance was still producing water in specification.
He said that is typical on their units.

---

It's great to hear more feedback that 20+ years is typical, if the resin beads stay clean from the salt bath. We just always keep the salt bin at least 3/4 full.

I've read that if it gets too low, the resin can get damaged -- which is why I bought that salt level sensor. From the phone app, it reports the salt level & usage history & notifies when it's too low.

I'll probably have the water quality tested every 5 to 10 years to make sure it's functioning ok.

The life of resins depends on a number of factors. The amount of chlorine in the water and the cross-linking in the resin are significant factors.

Here is more than you want to know: https://wcponline.com/2011/06/07/role-cross-linking-ion-exchange-resins/

The net is you probably want to install a 10% cross-linked resin for maximum life. 8% is probably okay, but 6% resin will turn to mush fairly quickly in my experience.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Cromagnum said:

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ForeverAg said:

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I'm in a home with my first water softener. It is 100% worth it. You mentioned some of the benefits for the plumbing system.

Other items to know:
In the shower, all soap and shampoo suds significantly better.
Your clothes will be softer after a wash.
Dishes will have significantly less spots if any.

These are what I have noticed at least. If you can get to your water supply line I would advocate just installing it yourself. It's nothing more than just tapping into the PVC.

---

Cons.
If your water was very hard to start with, your resulting softened water is going to have a lot of residual sodium in and your plumbing fixtures will take a beating.

---

How so?

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Every fixture in my house has corroded badly, starting only about a year after we installed our softener. Hard water likely would just have left hard water spots, but what we have going on is far worse. Every home in our neighborhood has the same problem.

Animal Eight 84 said:

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HackerAg said:

---

We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

---

I was curious since the resin beads in my Kinetico softener are 20+ years old.
So I had Kinetico tech come out and test the water.
Ion exchange performance was still producing water in specification.
He said that is typical on their units.

---

What sold you on the kinetico? Had a dealer come out today and it sounds interesting. Seems maintenance free as you've experienced.

Daddy-O5 said:

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Animal Eight 84 said:

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HackerAg said:

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We have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

---

I was curious since the resin beads in my Kinetico softener are 20+ years old.
So I had Kinetico tech come out and test the water.
Ion exchange performance was still producing water in specification.
He said that is typical on their units.

---

What sold you on the kinetico? Had a dealer come out today and it sounds interesting. Seems maintenance free as you've experienced.

---

Have had a Kinetico with two tanks for 10 years. Has been absolutely maintenance free besides adding salt and swapping sediment filter outside.

Daddy-O5 said:

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Animal Eight 84 said:

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HackerAg said:

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HhWe have a water softener & love it. The fridge's water dispenser filter helps get rid of remaining sodium in the drrinking water. Also bought one of these to monitor the salt level in the bin before it gets too low.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PENTAIR-Connected-Salt-Level-Sensor-for-Water-Softener-4005702/315136168

I have a question: How often will the resin beads (membrane) need to be replaced? I've read timeframes anywhere from 2, 5, or 10 years. We bought a Dupure Evolve with a "lifetime resin replacement" from the builder & think it might be a rip-off if the unit only lasts 10 years.

---

I was curious since the resin beads in my Kinetico softener are 20+ years old.
So I had Kinetico tech come out and test the water.
Ion exchange performance was still producing water in specification.
He said that is typical on their units.

---

What sold you on the kinetico? Had a dealer come out today and it sounds interesting. Seems maintenance free as you've experienced.

---

Low salt use so lower impact on my septic tanks. I have a traditional gravity flow septic system.
No timers just a water flow meter to regenerate based on usage.

Local friendly dealer and service techs that are intelligent on the equipment.
American made quality machine.

Thanks guys. I think I'm sold on the product, just a matter of figuring out price. Sounds like there's some flexibility there.

Can anyone else expand on the problems with fixtures corroding due to the soft water? I'm about to have to put one in at my new house and this thread has really opened my eyes to the cons of putting one in.

DeBoss said:

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Can anyone else expand on the problems with fixtures corroding due to the soft water? I'm about to have to put one in at my new house and this thread has really opened my eyes to the cons of putting one in.

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I've never ever heard this but I also grew up near Houston where the hard water will ruin a fixture in a matter of months. I've almost always had a water softener using standard NaCl and never had a single issue with corrosion of fixtures. In fact, my tankless water heater manufacturer would void a warranty if used with hard water. I currently live in San Antonio with the hardest water I've ever known and my water softener has never created any issue with fixtures. Fixtures are clean and non corroded. Tubs are clean. Toilets aren't scaly. I honestly can't imagine a situation where I could justify not having a softener.

You should never have Salt In your water. You'll have a few sodium ions but even with the hardest water on the planet, the amount in the eater is still considered "very low" in terms of fda metrics.

wmitchell said:

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Interesting. I just always assumed Kineticos were top of the line, high priced. Maybe I need to talk to them.

Any suggestions on brands outside of Kinetico? I need to ask the plumbing company what brand they use.

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Curious about brands and recommendations as well. I'm in McKinney, and we have hard water. I've recently started looking into water softeners but know very little about them. I have a good friend close by that has a Culligan system. Said it cost them about 5k 5 years ago, but they love it. What they have seems kind of like overkill to me, though. And then I see systems at HD for under 1000k. I just have no idea what I actually need or how to make that determination.

I can't tell you many brands - I looked at Kleck but settled on Alamo Water Softeners based off relationships - and they are local. I did not get a bid from Kinetico.