After my cabinet guy finished and left my wife noticed half the cabinet doors weren't flush.

When asked he said because they are full overlay he had to use a certain hinge and there was nothing we could do to make them sit flush.

Just looking for a second opinion.

When you say 'flush', what in particular are you pointing at?

I do see that the gap between the cabinet face frame and the back face of the door is very inconsistent. It ranges from barely a 1/16" to maybe close to 1/4"? That is not on the hinge, that is the guy who hung or adjusted (or didn't adjust) the hinges. A slight gap is necessary so that the back edge of the door doesn't bind with the face of the cabinet when opening the door. 1/16" is about normal.

Or is it that you wanted the doors to come flush with the sides of the cabinet? If so, that IS the hinge. With those hinges, there are about 10 different types (they will look that same) that will give different overlays of the cabinet. The cabinet person must select the correct hinge, drill the door correctly with the correct 'tab' spacing (hole spacing from the edge of the door), then hang and adjust properly.

Let me know.

That he used almost completely different hinges on the same project is a bit odd. They are both frame mounted hinges. And the goal is to achieve a certain amount of 'overlay'...but they are different in their action. I don't use this type of hinge very often, but some hinges do require a bit larger gap due to the 'throw' of the hinge, how it pivots. The more overlay there is, the larger the gap needs to be as you see on the door with the larger gap. You may have some adjustment possible in one of those two screws you see, but you may not be able to get them perfect. I guess I would have built the cabinets a certain way so that the same hinge is used for an identical end result... Tough to tell if there are any other solutions from just pictures.

Were these 'custom' cabinets?

If you mortise those hinges in, I think you can get both to flush up to the cabinet. Like 1988 said, different hinges is very suspicious. Bet the previous client didn't like these hinges either and now he's trying to pawn them off on you or whoever the next person is that doesn't notice.
Edit: tell him you want him to replace the lower hinges with the same hinges he used on the uppers. There's enough adjustability to eliminate the gap.

Yeah they are custom cabinets. I'm happy with the smaller gap in the first picture. I just want to reduce the gap seen in the second picture before everything gets painted.

face frame overlay hinges. Some have an adjustment for that offset distance, like these:
https://www.rockler.com/blumreg-110deg-soft-close-blumotion-overlay-clip-top-hinges-for-face-frame-cabinets-hinges

some don't, which maybe is the case with the hinges he used.

At a minimum i think its reasonable to request he use the same style hinge for each in order to be consistent.

We are building right now. Custom cabinets.

The installers did a great job. But when the painters came in they took everything off to paint. I wouldn't sweat it too much until they are finished. Then make sure the doors are adjusted properly.

That hinge will probably not be able to be adjusted much more (in the direction of the face frame)...unless the small portion of the hinge where it attaches the face frame gets recessed/mortised into the face frame. And even then, because the cup was drilled into the door fairly far from the edge of the door (7-8mm?), the back edge of the door will likely bind on the face frame when opening the door. Sanding that back edge of the door will help a bit.

He planned the cabinets, sized the door, then used a hinge that is, I believe, the maximum overlay option in that hinge style, which is about 1 1/2". I hate to give you bad news, but the likelihood of getting this to work with the door's overlay of the face frame (left to right) not changing, is pretty slim.

While these may be custom cabinets, I don't think the workmanship is up to standards. (Looking at some of the other nuances of the pictures.) Unless you got a really low price? How much experience does this guy have? Unfortunately, trim carpenters sometimes market themselves as cabinetmakers. While anyone with a few tools can build a cabinet, there are details, like the one you are dealing with, that are just not in their wheelhouse.

I don't want to depress you...if you got a fair price, and the painters do a nice job, and the door gap is the only issue, it's not the end of the world. There is more to worry about in life. But if you paid a decent buck, getting him back to come up with a solution (trimming the width of the frame down so a different hinge can be used) is justified.

Waltrip88 said:

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Yeah they are custom cabinets. I'm happy with the smaller gap in the first picture. I just want to reduce the gap seen in the second picture before everything gets painted.

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Won't matter much if you adjust them now. Painters will remove everything and you'll have to adjust again.

And then probably again later

The different door hinges are because of the different face frames. On the first picture, look how close your front frame is to the interior cabinet wall. Maybe 1/16th of an inch. He's able to use a frameless european hinge. Quick term: frame refers to the front trim pieces that attach to the actual box of the cabinet.

Now look at your second hinge photo. The face frame comes out about 1.5 inches from the wall cabinet. He went with a frame design that rests of the front of the frame, causing your gap. So he's 'right' that he can't adjust the second hinge to make a nicer gap. He's wrong that there is nothing you can do about it. He got lazy/cheap and didn't want to buy hinges that are for frames that don't sit on the outside of the frame. He could have put blocking behind the frame, making it flush with the frame and allowing him to use a frameless hinge if he wanted to as well.


Google full frame european hinge as well as frameless european hinge and you'll get the picture. Those hinges aren't cheap, so he could have done this to use whats in his bag, versus buying very specific hinges for your purpose. Because the hinge designs that can go around frames are designed for very specific frame widths. The ones he used are nearly universal.

Technically, he used a frameless european hinge on the first cabinet where you're not supposed to, on the frame. He can get away with it because of how tiny the frame gap is. Still wouldn't be thrilled, there are other designs that use 4 screws and mount to the interior wall that will last longer to the rocking back and forth motion. In the second photo, he could have used to the same hinges, BUT it would have pushed the door leftward and flush with the frame as opposed to concealing some of the frame behind the door like he's done with the the hinges that sit on the frame.

Waltrip88 said:

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Yeah they are custom cabinets. I'm happy with the smaller gap in the first picture. I just want to reduce the gap seen in the second picture before everything gets painted.

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Removed response as the responses from 1988 below corrected me and educated me... wasn't thinking about the mechanical geometry correctly

OR you could also buy new adjustable hinges for like $10 ea on Amazon or at HD or Lowes to see if you can fix it that way.

I would not advise trying to reduce the 'tab' distance (distance from the edge of the door to the start of the hinge cup hole). While the 'craftsman's' hole drilling was inconsistent, doing the work to change that will only alter how the door sits left to right when the door is closed. That is not the problem.

The problem is the door needs to sit closer to the face frame. That can't happen with this hinge. The 'L' shaped plate that mounts to the cabinet...the front portion that wraps around the front of the face frame, the thickness of that portion of the plate when the door is closed, is what is preventing the door from sitting closer.

The craftsman made a poor choice in the design phase when laying out the door's overlay, then choosing that hinge. You can get hinges that are 'partial overlay', they will only be fastened to the inner edge of the face frame and not wrap around like the other cabinet door is hinged. I don't know why he didn't do the same overlay/hinge combo? The maximum overlay is 1 1/2" for the ones I am referring to. I can get the part number if needed. At this stage, a 'frameless' hinge is impossible by ONLY blocking out, because you cannot get that much overlay from your average frameless hinge. You CAN, notch out a small portion of the face frame, 3/4" or so for the arm of the hinge to clear, then block out flush, then a standard frameless hinge can work.

Ah; you're right of course... wasnt thinking

Nm

1988PA-Aggie said:

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The maximum overlay is 1 1/2" for the ones I am referring to. I can get the part number if needed. At this stage, a 'frameless' hinge is impossible by ONLY blocking out, because you cannot get that much overlay from your average frameless hinge. You CAN, notch out a small portion of the face frame, 3/4" or so for the arm of the hinge to clear, then block out flush, then a standard frameless hinge can work.

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I'd appreciate a Part number and picture.

It's weird that only six cabinet doors have different hinges/gaps and the rest are fine, but compared with what family has spent on cabinets vs my cost I could live with it if I can't figure something out.

I would try Blums compact face frame hinges instead the full size ones agrams posted. They are going to provide you a wider range of offsets and the frame to door gap is going to be consistent throughout their line.

https://www.rockler.com/blumreg-compact-soft-close-blumotion-overlay-hinges-for-face-frame-hinges

AggieFactor pulled up a good hinge.

But you may have another issue even if you go with that hinge, and that is what was discussed before,...the inconsistent drilling distance of the hole in the door.

I dug into the cad drawings in the Blum catalog. All of these compact hinges result in a 3/16" gap (distance from the face frame to the back of the door). There is a little bit of adjustment to that gap. Frameless hinges (like amgrams posted) mount and operate very differently and getting a 1/16" gap is standard.

However, the 'tab' distance (measurement from the edge of the door to the start of the hinge hole) needs to be only 1/8". It looks like his tab distance is greater than 1/8" for the upper hinge. What will happen if you put the new hinge on, is that the back edge of the door will bind and scrape against the face frame as you try to open it. He may have not noticed his bad drilling, then while putting on the doors, adjusted that one hinge out to avoid the binding, then adjusted the bottom hinge too just to get a more even gap.

The bad drilling can affect your plan going forward. He can plug that hole and redrill it (I think spreadsheet suggested that)...I have done that many times. That will help the side gap somewhat while using the same hinge. I fear that even a new hinge (other than blocking out and using a frameless hinge) of the same style will result in roughly the same issue.

I would get the guy back there to do this. Let him fix things rather than you spend your money and effort fixing his work.

We are building right now and I have learned that some cabinetmakers are just not good at their job.

We are using stain grade cabinets and have sent all of the glass doors back because they were not correct, we had a large chest of drawers built into our closet that they have to replace the top because they sanded through the veneer. The same thing with 2 cabinets on either side of the fireplace where they've sanded through the veneer and the doors were not built to the plans, they were to be glass front doors and they built them solid.

All that said, the work they have done at least the joints and reveals have been very good.

We're designing right now and these details terrify me!

We are 16 months in on a custom build (it's in a cow pasture 22 miles from the nearest town) and the builder says we are a month away from being finished. However, we have no flooring, exterior paint, stone veneer, fireplace stone, appliances, light fixtures, garage doors, and I've already started a punch list 2 pages long.

I'm not trying to scare you off, but if I were to do it again, I'd definitely use a different contractor and probably just build a barn home.

We were told 9 months initially and I think the builder never adapted to the supply chain problems. The day we signed papers, he ordered the lumber, but since then, nothing has been on time. To the point all of my interior doors were made by a custome door maker because he could not get doors quick enough. He ate the overages on it, but it still pushed us back.

Problem is he is the only local home builder. Outside of using him the alternative would have been to use others from 70 miles away.

We're building in Spring Branch where there's a ton of activity. We don't have to be in by a certain time but that said, once we get started I'll be antsy to get in there. Good luck!

billyjack2009 said:

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We're building in Spring Branch where there's a ton of activity. We don't have to be in by a certain time but that said, once we get started I'll be antsy to get in there. Good luck!

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We are finishing up a three month renovation (now in month six) of our first floor in west Spring Branch.

We should finish up in the next six weeks.

Houston-area Spring Branch or New Braunfels-are Spring Branch? We're the latter.

billyjack2009 said:

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Houston-area Spring Branch or New Braunfels-are Spring Branch? We're the latter.

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Ah Houston Spring Branch