Not sure what to do here.

Our house has been through a couple of hailstorms. My insurance company has told me twice that I have NO hail damage (not minor hail damage, but "no" hail damage). I had an independent inspector look at my roof after the first storm and they said there was hail damage but that my insurance company would fight me on it... but that a few years down the road it would become obvious and that then I would want to "reopen" my initial claim. After the second hailstorm, I had a roofer look at it and they said I had hail damage and they believed the insurance company should agree. Again, the insurance company comes out and says "no" hail damage.

UGH.

I don't have any leaks in my roof.

ALL of the houses next to us, across the street from us, and behind us have had their rooves replaced by insurance. One of them has the same insurance company we do. How can all the houses around us have sufficient damage to get a new roof but we don't? I understand a roofer would be motivated to tell me I have hail damage - he wants to sell me a new roof. But an independent inspector?

Does anyone have any insight, suggestions, or experiences that might help make sense of this for me?

I had hail damage to my roof and gutters. My insurance company agreed that I had hail damage to my gutters but not my roof (explain that one to me please).

My roofer threatened to take them to court on his dime and they sent out a different inspector for a 2nd opinion. The new inspector said, "yeah, i don't see any hail damage...but i do see wind damage!".

To me, it was all about saving face for the 1st inspector. I didn't care what kind of damage it was because it got covered...it just took a couple of extra months for it to happen.

Edit to add...if you are in Houston and want to change roofers, let me know and I'll get you his info.

Sounds like you have a greedy insurance company. Allstate and State farm never like to buy roofs.

I have neither Allstate nor State Farm. Safeco/Liberty Mutual.

I texted my brother about it, he sells roofs. He said call the insurance company and ask to go to appraisal, he said they typically will do something once you say that as it's a very long process. He also asked if the contractor was at the adjusters meeting. The contractor will show the adjuster and try to "sell" the roof, he's never had a problem when a roof actually needed replacing. From what you said it sounds like you need a new roof. There usually has to be a certain amount of hits or damage in a given area.

My insurance company does not allow its employees to climb ladders onto roofs because a few years ago one of them fell off and died. They hire 3rd party adjusters to go up on the roof to inspected and photograph it. Then they send the photographs to the insurance company adjuster. So my insurance company adjuster wasn't even on the roof. My roofer and the 3rd party adjuster both showed up on time for our appointment. The insurance company adjuster showed up late, then he talked to the 3rd party adjuster, and snuck away without speaking to my roofer.

Every time my roofer pointed damage out to the 3rd party inspector he said, no that's not damage or.not severe enough. That guy was looking for Dallas-level hail damage to my roof.

My roofing contractor told me that he thought that the 3rd party insurance adjuster was either very inexperienced or, perhaps, incompetent. He was referring to common industry terms incorrectly. He took an excrutiatingly long time to do the inspection and he wandered around looking like he didn't have a clue what he was doing.

All of the photos in the report that my insurance company sent me to deny the claim showed my roof in good condition. Not a single photo including damage was included. My roofer sent me at least 8 photographs that showed obvious hail damage. And he just included a small selection in his email to me.

Is there anything I can or should do in advance of the 2nd inspection in order to increase the odds that my insurance company will acknowledge the damage to my roof?

Did I mention that all of my neighbours have new roofs?

A roofer came by and said i could have damage. I have Class 4 shingles which are hail resistant.

Insurance company said no hail damage but some "blistering" and i need a ridge vent for better ventilation
so that there would be less heat hitting the shingles from underneath.

The insurance guy explained it all to the roofer, who was new to inspecting, and the roofer agreed.

He looked at the some of the plastic covering the water heater vents and said it showed the size of the hail
that hit was pea size and a little bigger, which wouldn't damage that type of shingle.

I was actually happy, because i didn't want to pay the deductible but I had been thinking of getting a ridge vent for a while.

TLDR:

YES, you can have your roofer put a report together with the BEST photos he has. Clean, beautiful impacts in a 10x10 square. Make sure he can get about 8 or more if you are with Liberty. Overview shots of the slope, slightly closer up to indicate the number of hits in the square and then a couple very close shots to show the nature of the impacts up close. Again...GREAT photos...no BS. No mechanical damage, no blisters, no tree limb scrapes. If he does that, they will key in on that and use that to deny again. He should repeat this in his report on multiple slopes. You want a big picture. Also he needs to include soft metal damage..rain caps, turbines, chimney caps, etc. I always try to include hip & ridge damage as well. Hail shows up really well on those areas and can drive the point home. At the least, this should trigger a re-inspect.



Long Version:

There is a bit to unpack here, so let me see if I can get the OP some information. Some of this info is general for others in case it is pertinent.

First, every house, roof, storm, carrier, adjuster, owner, roofer...is different. Also, there can be a lot of distance between what a roofer considers damage and what an insurance carrier considers damage. I have multiple technical bulletins from the top shingle manufacturers explaining what constitutes damaged shingles, and most of those are not considered by insurance.

Second, you need to keep in mind that an adjuster is just that...and adjuster. He is not a roofer. He doesn't install shingles. He has no idea about manufacturer requirements and technical bulletins. If he is inexperienced, he may not know anything more about roofing than you do...except that he has some guidelines he has from a class he sat through that he follows to decide if its totaled out. If he just got back from the panhandle and is looking for hail in Houston, then he will be biased and probably overlook damage.

When I started roofing, we always had new guys fire off the old line "the guys across the street got a new roof". It was a great way to get your adjuster to decide not to buy your roof. And whether anyone wants to believe it, the adjuster decides if he wants to buy the roof. Its loosely tied to actual damage in my opinion. I have had many roofs in Houston that had almost no damage get bought but insurance. I have had roofs in Bryan denied with clear and obvious damage. Two weeks ago, I did one in Bryan that was almost completely under trees. That adjuster let ME mark the damage and said point blank "there isn't much here, but I want this to get pushed through. I need you to step off the roof for a few minutes, OK?" It was bought. There was minor damage at best. San Antonio and Austin can be a lot easier in most cases but there is damage so extensive you could see if from the street.

Anyway, let's talk about your roofer. Yes, we want you to make a claim. Yes, we want to get the roof job. After all, it's how we make a living. That said, unless your roofer is new and has been told 'send everyone to a claim', there is not a lot of incentive for me to push for a claim if you don't have damage that I think is worth claiming. I'm going to drive out multiple times, and spend hours working with a homeowner, possibly be berated by an adjuster for there not being real damage...it's just not professional. Also, timing is important. I am way more likely to push marginal damage to a claim days and weeks after a new storm. As time goes on, insurance and adjusters get stingy. When your roofer said 'you had damage'? Did he show you? Did he take photos? Did he facetime you or make a video while he inspected? I always document these types of things. After all, if I am going to ask a customer to make a claim and pay their deductible, I want them to see what I see. More importantly, after I meet an adjuster...and he denies a claim...I have live documentation that I can put into a report to trigger a reinspect. I may have 10 photos, or I may have 90 photos.

Anyway, I guess my point is, I would not go to appraisal unless you can validate your damage from a legit roofer. I'm talking about legit textbook damage. Hail spatter does not count.

It sucks, but yes, your neighbors have new roofs, and you may end up with one as well. There are a lot of variables that play into why you are approved or denied.

In the Texas Panhandle we get hail ALOT. At one point a few years ago, my in-laws got a new roof 4 years in a row.

I learned my lesson with germania. They will NEVER insure a thing for me again. The totaled 1/2 of my roof. When a large hail storm comes through, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a roofing company to just do 1/2 of a roof.

I will always have my roofer present for any insurance inspection.

Thank you for taking the time to reply so carefully. I appreciate it.

Where you located?

Houston has has hail but its minor. Its not why roof is bad almost 80 to 90% but there have been pockets. Now Dallas and West and North Texas that hail is bad. Houston, not too much. The biggest hail was April 2015 and 2016. Since then hail has been pretty small but there are always pockets.

Adjusters are now sending drones to take picrures.

A how old is your roof?
B roofers will never say you don't have hail damage. In one hand they have a chance to get 15k. In the other hand they know you won't pay it out of pocket unless your roof is leaking. If you have a good 30 year architectural shingle roof it will last 25 to 30 years functionally. Maybe not look pretty aesthetically. Mine is 17 years. I have a good 8 to 9 hits from hail with 4 or 5 actual divits. Need more, so not calling

C my recommendation is have the roofer show you pictures before and after they get up on roof. Let them show u before you make a claim. Once u make a claim its on your record and they have pictures.

D if you have had 3 minor hail storms you might have enough and ins company doesn't know when you've had one if you haven't called to make a claim. U need to see damage. This isn't rocket science. I had a lady tell me all these neighbors got roofs. I said when was the storm. She said well let me ask my neighbors. First strike
Then I said did roofer show you any damage so you could show damage to adjuster. Nope, 2nd strike.
I even called a contractor friend to go out and then get pictures and ask the adjuster to send a 2nd opinion. Foul tip
It was denied so I asked the adjuster for photos. He sent me a drive of over 100 photos from a drone. From porch, roof, shed, flashing, vents, u name it. Not one dent or even discoloration from hail. I sent to the client and asked for her to get with roofer and said have them get with you and tell me if these photos are telling a different story because I can't argue with adjuster and I'm great at arguing.

No answer, strike 3. So have a good agent but be smart and know your house. Roofers are biggest sharks in the water. But that doesn't mean u they don't tell truth but a roofer that says no is an out of work roofer. But older roofs more and more will not be covered I promise and I rep dozens of carriers. Hail claims and greed got out of control and its going to cost us all

E my opinion is never call to make a claim unless you know you are getting g money. Hail is a peril. Hail is not covered hail damage is.

If you wonder why home insurance is soaring in rates in Texas, its because of re insurance cost and hail claims. Most dont want to pay to replace a roof 15 years old and older to replace. Its expensive.

Insurance carriers will be much more tightening the belt in subjective claims going forward. Don't take my word for it, test me. More carriers are scheduling roofs for depreciation and many will not insure a roof over a certain age anymore.

It will get worse and worse because of the abuse

The large carriers like state farm, usaa, All-State, farmers, aaa, liberty, nationwide, travelers

All are great carriers. But they also have 1 in every 3 to 9 homes in your subdivision they pay one they might particularly if state farm or All-State pay for every 3 houses on your street. They don't want to do that.

Liberty/Safeco are terrible companies. I am guessing they either ran out Hancock or Ladder Now for the inspection. Here is the kicker if you would like to escalate. These "inspectors" that they send out are not licensed adjusters and it is actually illegal for them to be adjusting your claim. Of course they will state that they are only doing an inspection and the adjuster is reviewing it and making the decision, but that is BS. File a complain with your states insurance department. Ask LM for a re-inspection. If that doesn't work, hire an independent engineer to write you a report stating that then roof has damage consistent with hail and storm debris. These companies will deny until you show them that you are willing to push further. If all else fails, hire a Public Adjuster or an attorney. I really hate the PA route, but the reality is most lawyers don't find residential worth their time/cost unless it is bad faith. And for bad faith, you have to prove that they had intent, which is hard to do.

Daddy said:

---

Where you located?

Houston has has hail but its minor. Its not why roof is bad almost 80 to 90% but there have been pockets. Now Dallas and West and North Texas that hail is bad. Houston, not too much. The biggest hail was April 2015 and 2016. Since then hail has been pretty small but there are always pockets.

Adjusters are now sending drones to take picrures.

A how old is your roof?
B roofers will never say you don't have hail damage. In one hand they have a chance to get 15k. In the other hand they know you won't pay it out of pocket unless your roof is leaking. If you have a good 30 year architectural shingle roof it will last 25 to 30 years functionally. Maybe not look pretty aesthetically. Mine is 17 years. I have a good 8 to 9 hits from hail with 4 or 5 actual divits. Need more, so not calling

C my recommendation is have the roofer show you pictures before and after they get up on roof. Let them show u before you make a claim. Once u make a claim its on your record and they have pictures.

D if you have had 3 minor hail storms you might have enough and ins company doesn't know when you've had one if you haven't called to make a claim. U need to see damage. This isn't rocket science. I had a lady tell me all these neighbors got roofs. I said when was the storm. She said well let me ask my neighbors. First strike
Then I said did roofer show you any damage so you could show damage to adjuster. Nope, 2nd strike.
I even called a contractor friend to go out and then get pictures and ask the adjuster to send a 2nd opinion. Foul tip
It was denied so I asked the adjuster for photos. He sent me a drive of over 100 photos from a drone. From porch, roof, shed, flashing, vents, u name it. Not one dent or even discoloration from hail. I sent to the client and asked for her to get with roofer and said have them get with you and tell me if these photos are telling a different story because I can't argue with adjuster and I'm great at arguing.

No answer, strike 3. So have a good agent but be smart and know your house. Roofers are biggest sharks in the water. But that doesn't mean u they don't tell truth but a roofer that says no is an out of work roofer. But older roofs more and more will not be covered I promise and I rep dozens of carriers. Hail claims and greed got out of control and its going to cost us all

E my opinion is never call to make a claim unless you know you are getting g money. Hail is a peril. Hail is not covered hail damage is.

If you wonder why home insurance is soaring in rates in Texas, its because of re insurance cost and hail claims. Most dont want to pay to replace a roof 15 years old and older to replace. Its expensive.

Insurance carriers will be much more tightening the belt in subjective claims going forward. Don't take my word for it, test me. More carriers are scheduling roofs for depreciation and many will not insure a roof over a certain age anymore.

It will get worse and worse because of the abuse

The large carriers like state farm, usaa, All-State, farmers, aaa, liberty, nationwide, travelers

All are great carriers. But they also have 1 in every 3 to 9 homes in your subdivision they pay one they might particularly if state farm or All-State pay for every 3 houses on your street. They don't want to do that.

---

LOL. You must be on the insurance side. You didn't mention one carrier that I would consider good anymore. This industry has changed. While there may be abuse out there on the contractor/homeowner side, it is far far outweighed by the abuse of the homeowner by the insurance company. It isn't even close.

I do agree, however, that you should have your roofer show you the pictures after the inspection. There are some guys out there that will tell everyone to file a claim and just see what sticks. But there are far more adjusters and IC that screw clients.

I filed multiple claims from the April and May hail storms in Houston and was offered like $200 from my insurance while my roofer whole heartedly disagreed on the assessment of course. The roof had damage but was not leaking so I dropped it and ended up going the Public adjuster route.
Once he reviewed my policy and found out the age of the roof of 26 years, he didnt think i would get much, if anything. A month later, with a few signatures from me and him doing 99% of the work, We got a settlement that paid him his cut and balance was mine that paid for a significant portion of my brand new roof.
If he had not been able to settle anything, there would have been no charge to me, so it was risk free.

Great, I have Safeco

LM/Safeco is a terrible company to deal with. They aren't quite as evil as Allstate, but they are close.