Wildman15 said:

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aggiefan2002 said:

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Anyone know what it might run me to build a 25x20ish detached garage with a bedroom + bathroom above it? In BCS if that matters.

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Lumber prices are dropping (very slightly) but expect to budget about $8-12,000 just in material to get it dried in.

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A 92 5/8 stud that was $3 in April and $5.97 a week ago has dropped to $5.77 as of yesterday

OSB is still sitting at pricing I haven't seen since hurricane Katrina

What's driving the price of materials? Is it shortage due to factories/mills being shut down for a while?

It's not like the shelves are bare at lumber supply yards or at box stores.

evan_aggie said:

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What's driving the price of materials? Is it shortage due to factories/mills being shut down for a while?

It's not like the shelves are bare at lumber supply yards or at box stores.

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When the market crashed and oil went to below $0/barrel, the mills assumed that no one would be building. When the mills shut down, harvesting shuts down as well.

But, the exact opposite happened. While people were quarantined at their house, instead of spending the several thousand dollars they had stashed away for family vacations, they decided to remodel their house, build a new porch, etc. demand went thru the roof, and the mills could not ever catch back up.

On top of that, if a mill worker tested positive, then the mill was shut down again or staff were reduced, causing the mill lead times to get pushed further out.

Lumber yards might have looked full, but it took a lot of pulling rabbits out of hats and prayers that you had a solid relationship with vendors and mills in order to fill truckloads of lumber.

From my understanding with our reps, manufacturers shut down some do to covid, and a mini building boom happened (which is weird to me), so they are playing catchup. Then hurricanes hit. So it is supply and demand, and we are getting hammered.

Six months ago we paid under $8 per sheet of OSB. Now we are paying between $23 and $28 depending on supplier. It is nuts.

You guys definitely talked me out of building the a similar garage with no bathroom/kitchen. If it costs 100k, its not worth it to me. I could put that money toward land and a metal building. Or I could just rent a storage unit for my boat and other junk for years. I'd never get half that money back on when I sell.

Could the mini building boom be related to incredibly low interest rates? I know that's why we sold our house and built a new one. The killer interest rate made up for the increase in property values/ building costs. I walked away with enough from my old house to put enough down on my new house so that with the low interest rates, my housing payment basically stayed the same.

That certainly helps. But interest rates have been good for a while. I think it's a combination of the government injecting a ton of money into the public, interest rates, and people being stuck at home picking out things they get about their house

That certainly helps. But interest rates have been good for a while. I think it's a combination of the government injecting a ton of money into the public, interest rates, and people being stuck at home picking out things they get about their house

Builder93 said:

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When I did residential remodeling I started asking my clients for their budget before they started. If they didn't want to trust me, fine. I got my work by word of mouth so I guess they didn't trust their friend's recommendations either. Having no budget told me they weren't serious about their project if they didn't know how much they were willing to spend, This wasn't picking out a big screen TV, this was a custom designed and built project with multiple unknowns. If you don't have a budget, you don't have a contingency either, which means as a builder you need to pad the project heavily to ensure your business stays financially healthy.

I was not out to screw anyone over because I love designing and building and since I started the value engineering from the design phase I knew how to squeeze the most value out of the project. I always aimed to give people more than they paid for by planning well. I had several clients who made more off the resale of their house than I did on the project because of the appeal of the work I had done. My motto was "Good construction begins with good design." Not "How much per square foot?"

But hey, if you want to waste 8 contractors' time lookey-looing for hours upon end, using one guy's design ideas in the other's proposal and then pitting them against each other in a bidding war, go right ahead and see how that relationship ends when your house is last on the list to be completed and no trades want to respond to your nit picky demands for which you are only willing to pay bottom dollar. Oh, and that time spent bidding and measuring and drawing has to be paid for.

Homeowners always complain about the crooked contractors, but believe me there are 2 parties to every transaction. For every story you give me about a terrible remodeler I can give you one about a terrible homeowner.

I've beaten this horse to death before on here, but I feel a need to defend the good builders out there. There are a lot of honest people in the trades. It's just hard to compete against the low balling, uneducated, crooked ones that drive the standard down and set the bar so low that it's just not worth the fight. Plus HGTV makes it look soooo easy. They can finish a whole remodel in an hour!

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Very well said. So how did you best navigate the sales process? Did you require a contract and payment before the designing or process started? We feel we navigate it fairly well, but not great, and always looking to shore up the wasted time our guys spend on the window shoppers and cheap clients. We aren't cheap. We don't want to be cheap.

I kind of want to piggy back on this thread as well as your comments.

I have an attached, but detached garage that we were thinking of building the 2nd story on to make into a garage efficiency/1 bdr apartment for MiL. Now, I can use numbers to get ballpark thoughts on prices, but even those are wild guesses. And the numbers I can use ($120-$150+ sq/ft) are for detached garage apartments; mine would be attached.

Since I live in the CoH, I know things will have to change. But the changes will change the costs, which, I think, would destroy any estimates I have.

How can I ensure the builder A) knows what they'll have to do to comply with permits, B) get it done right the first time (I don't mind paying a little extra to ensure it is done on schedule and on time vs. paying 1.5x times and 3-6 months late), C) no unexpected problems down the road ("whoops, forgot to tell you that you need a new electrical panel, give me $3k more!) and D) will finish the project in some semblance of an agreed upon timeline.

I have some ideas of costs, but the biggest unknown (and the biggest preventer of moving forward) is what I would have to do to the rest of my house for permitting, as I want to connect the 2 living areas. But I don't want to waste a contractor's time by bringing them out, nor do I want to waste my time having someone who says they could do it, but when I start asking the above questions, I get



~egon

I can't say that I did it all right. I took a lot lumps along the way. I only did word of mouth, which eliminates many unknowns for a homeowner. Hopefully a level of trust is assumed because of the recommendation. I asked for the scope of their project as they saw it and then asked if they had a budget in mind. If they had no budget I would move toward questions that helped me discern their level of commitment. If they seemed like they were serious, but had no budget, I would throw out a ballpark number in response to their vague design ideas. That weeded many people out quickly. If they had a budget, I proceeded to indicate what I thought was feasible based on their own ideas(many of which may be awful). I would tell them that to go any further, I could design the project for $500- $1000 depending on the size and depth of detail. If they had me build it, I would refund part of the design fee, again, depending how detailed it was. The design fee usually made them pause. They would talk it over and if they liked the proposal, I would design it, they could shop it and then I got paid either way. The design also helped them identify issues they hadn't considered.

Working in someone's house means they need to be a good fit for you and and vice versa. If they are smart, they need to give that special consideration as well, not just cost.

I lost plenty of money giving away services when I first started. I thought more work was always better, but it wasn't. Better work is better. It's more profitable for everyone and far less stressful. If you are doing repairs and basic work this may not apply, but people get weird when their homes are turned over. I've had multiple housewives completely lose it over the disruptions from remodeling. I've also had people slander me because of their ignorance about the technical aspects of an issue. They just assumed that I trying to pull a fast one on them. It's disheartening when you do your best for someone and they can't get past their biases about anyone in the trades or "general contracting."

There is also the assumption that if you are not on the job site, that you are not working. Don't work for people like this. They don't respect the value of your time or the effort you put into keeping your business solvent so that you are able to complete their project.

Contracts are good. They are a way to clear the air, set expectations and protect you and your client. In the end, though, they are only as good as the people signing them. I had them and still use them in commercial work every day. It is expected. They freak homeowners out. If someone is taken back back having to sign a contract, you probably don't want to work for them.

Also, failure is a good teacher as long as you learn from it.

You just described my experiences perfectly. The only thing we have yet to try is charging for a design. Have talked about it, but have never tried it.

We have a new construction company and a remodel company. It is crazy how much more emotional people get with remodels. Even if they aren't currently living in the home. And remodeling is certainly more challenging from a building standpoint. Our new con guys can't remodel. Our remodel guys can pretty much build anything.

shalackin said:

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You just described my experiences perfectly. The only thing we have yet to try is charging for a design. Have talked about it, but have never tried it.

We have a new construction company and a remodel company. It is crazy how much more emotional people get with remodels. Even if they aren't currently living in the home. And remodeling is certainly more challenging from a building standpoint. Our new con guys can't remodel. Our remodel guys can pretty much build anything.

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People used to assume I couldn't build new because I remodeled. Remodeling is much more difficult than new construction. Fitting new to old presents challenges that do not exist in new construction. I have had to add onto an unsquare roofline by gradually adjusting the cuts on rafters to make it look like the square addition blended seamlessly into the unsquare existing building. Most "framers" wouldn't even attempt to adjust the rafters, they would just do one big correction that would make it obvious a correction was made. Little things like making custom trim, scribing new cabinets to fit against wonky old trim, or getting mechanical systems to fit where they weren't originally intended can eat up lots of time and often require creative thinking.

One of my favorite quotes is from Fine Housebuilding: When they ask why it costs more per square foot to remodel I tell them it's because your old house is in the way.

Soooo how much DID it cost in $/sf counting all the SF, not just Living/heated?