Time for a new HVAC System in my 20 year old house.

Questions:
1. Assuming installations are the same, which is the best: Trane -vs- Lennox -vs- Carrier? Should I pay $4k more for Lennox? $2k more for Trane? It's difficult to find a recent comparison.
2. Is a 5 Ton too big? See my https://www.loadcalc.net/ Manual J at the bottom. Every calculation I've done shows 4 Ton. Can Load-Calc be trusted?
3. Will a variable speed decrease humidity and improve IAQ by running longer?

Scope:
* Replace 20 year old HVAC System and all flex-duct
* Remove old blown insulation and rat dung and debris from 3 roof replacements, then replace with new blown insulation

Current System:
* 5 Ton Amana + 90,000 BTU Amana Gas Furnace, R-6 flex-duct
* 10 year average monthly bill (gas + electricity): $157
* 2,350 sq ft, 1 story house

Goals:
1. Better IAQ (better filtration, mold reduction in Evap). My indoor coils are moldy and my pan looks like this:

2. Lower Humidity
3. Keep Monthly Bills low

Process:
* I analyzed 34 recommended HVAC companies and narrowed the list down to 6 based on trusted recommendations and reviews.
* The 6 came out for a proposal last week.

Bids (chronological order):
1. $10,974: American Standard Silver 14 5 Ton + Aprilaire 1510 (No ducts) [Warranty unknown, not on proposal]
2. $16,931: Trane XV18 5 Ton Variable + REME Halo LED + R-8 Ducts [Warranty 10 year parts, 2 year labor]
3. $16,200: Carrier Infinity 20 SEER 5 Ton + UV Light + Ducts [10 year parts and 10 year labor warranty]
4. $19,254: Lennox XC20 5 Ton Variable [Lifetime Warranty for parts, labor, compressor, heat exchange]
5. $20,279: Lennox XC20 5 Ton Variable + Aprilaire + Patriot Carbon [10 years parts, 2 year labor]
6. $?

Status:
Ruled Out:
#1 Wanted no part of the duct work
#6 Showed up 4 hours early and interrupted #5. Never sent me a proposal.
#4 Was a used car salesman in a previous life. Original price was $4414 more, but he texted the next morning with $4414 in discounts if I do the work "Today". Lifetime warranty on parts and labor is compelling, but I bet there is some expensive annual maintenance plan required to keep that warranty.

The final 3:


#2 and #5 measured every room.
#2 used his Phone App to calculate load
#5 did a load calculation based on points (110 points) and if I choose them, he will do a more thorough calculation and plan for the duct work.
#3 did none of that



https://www.coolcalc.com/ is getting closer to 5 Ton:

Avoid Lennox

What do you keep the ac temp set on ?

What is the current humidity range in the summer months with the existing 20 year old system ?


If you can make it through Summer then you can save quite a bit of money on the change out waiting until dec/jan due to lower demand and a cooler working environment.

JP76 said:

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Avoid Lennox

What are the wall heights in the house ?


Any vaulted/cathedral ceilings?

What do you keep the ac temp set on ?

What is the current humidity range in the summer months with the existing 20 year old system ?


If you can make it through Summer then you can save quite a bit of money on the change out waiting until dec/jan due to lower demand and a cooler working environment.

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Avoid Lennox

What do you keep the ac temp set on ?

What is the current humidity range in the summer months with the existing 20 year old system ?


If you can make it through Summer then you can save quite a bit of money on the change out waiting until dec/jan due to lower demand and a cooler working environment.

My house that I bought as a new build in 2013 has a Lennox. I'm on my third coil and second capacitor. The first coil needed replacement after just 2 years. After 7 years, all total, the unit has about $5600 worth of new parts and repairs, only about $1000 of which was covered by the original warranty. That's $800/year in maintenance. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

I just had coil #3 installed on Friday and went with an American Standard that has a 10 year warranty. The second coil was also a Lennox. It lasted just under 5 years and should have been covered by warranty, but the company that installed it didn't file the registration paperwork. Probably a good thing, though, because if I'd used the warranty, I would have had to get another Lennox coil.

Used to have Lennox. Used to be the best. Had to replace all three or our units after about 11 years. Went With Trane. Great air conditioners and saved money on monthly electric bills. A bit pricey but worth it.

I appreciate the responses.

Summer: 67 night, 74 day
Winter: <70

The humidity goes up to high 50s low 60s during the day.

- We'd be happy to give you another Bid / Estimate in you're in Houston , B/CS , Austin or Texas really. We've even been doing many via Zoom this year due to the corona, good for that last opinion/ bid sometimes and to save time.

• We would easily be able to give a Trane 5 Ton Variable bid that would come with a Halo LED + 10 years Parts + 10 Years Labor warranties ( we use JB Warranties) with those Duct Runs for ~$1,000 to $2,000 less. ( $20k range for a single story home is a bit high) Reme Halo LED cost ~$450 ish we can add that at cost since we would already be there.

• Also, we're an Aggie 100 company with lots of great Google reviews + I'd be happy to donate 2% of your total purchase to a FB listed Non-Profit of your choice.

• We'd be happy to show videos/ pictures of our work and can get you a list of references to call if desired.

Also, always be extra cautious of warranties, companies that carry them in house become a liability. We offer JB Warranties ( and they will warranty any systems under 2 years from install, This company actually pays your HVAC company or another of your choice to do the work if needed.
( Example: in 8 years from now, when that HVAC company may not be in business, your 3rd party JB warranty will still pay a new guy well to get the system fixed. )


Thanks & Let us know if we could help !

www.EcoZappHVAC.com
833.924.6100

JP76 said:

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If you can make it through Summer then you can save quite a bit of money on the change out waiting until dec/jan due to lower demand and a cooler working environment.

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- True Most years, not in 2020. HVAC installs are usually started on early in the morning and if done correctly there should be cold air blowing in the attic by breakfast.


Last I checked Pulled Install permits were down about 40 to 50% YTD. We see HVAC contractors underbidding jobs by several thousands in May versus just several months ago. Us and many have been offering 60 months at 0% interest rates and even options up to 132 month terms to stay relevant to many homeowners this year.

Contractors are small businesses dealing with the corona environment and want need work sooner vs. later.

Save the money every month on energy going into Summer & Enjoy cleaner air 6 months earlier along the way; Most ppl finance A/C systems anyways, it's usually a wash out or close to it.

Thank you EcoZapp for the info. I am in Dallas.

clem93 said:

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Thank you EcoZapp for the info. I am in Dallas.

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- We will defiantly make the drive for you; and maybe even open up an office with competition at those prices.


- I also, don't understand how some get away with selling Lennox at significantly higher price points in 2020. ( imo it should be more vise versa but they are just much more expensive equipment without any much justification)

American Standard and Trane are made by the same manufacture- those pricing levels are similar to all HVAC contractors ( or should be similar )

We went with a 2 speed American Standard system in our last house. It was awesome. Install matters more than the equipment although I would never go with Lennox again.

- always a good question to ask is "If the system install doesn't go 100% and needs a call back/ fix/ repair etc.. Does the Install Team get Back-Charged and how?"


- Good Install teams that Do Get BackCharged for a fix are really motivated to not mess up. Lots of hard work in hot attics makes stepping thru a ceiling or not connecting a wire just right Top of Mind for the people actually doing the work. A sloppy job can easily make a day of hard day of work wasted/ quickly less profitable.

Ask questions about the backend; Salesmen are usually pretty sharp talking about the Brand / Specs/ other.




Ask what color drop clothes they use, or what happens if a shoe goes thru the ceiling etc.

Eco zap . . Tried to PM you about A/C quote but would not go through.
How best to contact you after Memorial Day holiday?

Definitely not Lennox. I occasionally play golf with an engineer that recently retired from there after 20+ years. He spent the last number of years disgusted by how far they had let things slip for the sake of squeezing cost and felt like they were screwing their customers. I think Carrier is right there with Trane while being a tad cheaper.

k20dub said:

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Eco zap . . Tried to PM you about A/C quote but would not go through.
How best to contact you after Memorial Day holiday?

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Sorry about that.
Support@ecozapphvac.com


Thanks !

Questions:
1. Assuming installations are the same, which is the best: Trane -vs- Lennox -vs- Carrier? Should I pay $4k more for Lennox? $2k more for Trane? It's difficult to find a recent comparison.

Trane/ American Standard

2. Is a 5 Ton too big?

Not as critical if you go with a variable capacity system.

3. Will a variable speed decrease humidity and improve IAQ by running longer?

Big time! Most importantly they improve comfort with a rock stable temp without you ever noticing it is on. (I have a zoned Trane XV20 and an American Standard nonzoned XV18)

Three components of IAQ
1. Humidity - variable speed systems vary the ratio of cooling capacity, fan speed, and run time to actively manage RH to a target value.
2. Particulates - some prefer high MERV 4" or 5" filters, or the best is the Trane Cleaneffect system but it requires periodic manual cleaning instead of a quick filter change.
3. Odors, VOCs, etc , the Reme Halo is really effective for certain things like pet odor. Other than activated charcoal the best solution is probably an ERV.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303640263612

Here a Reme Halo LED on Ebay ; 100% of Sale goes towards St. Jude's Research Children's Hospital

Bump here. @clem93 who did you end up using and what system did you go with?

Help me clem93, you are my only hope....

In DFW and looking to do basically the exact thing you have described above.

Army Ag 97 let me know if you want to use Energy Ogre's HVAC calculator. We can compare the energy deficiency of the new unit compared to your old unit. With our data we can actually tell you upfront what the impact of putting a new AC unit in your home.

Sorry, just saw this.

SAMM's - https://www.sammsheatingandair.com/

A friend highly recommended SAMM's. They did a fantastic job and their attention to detail was great.

Trane XV18 SEER 5.0 Tons Variable Speed
Trane 80% AFUE 100,000 BTU Two Stage Communicating Gas Furnace

We also replaced all the ducts and had the insulation and rat crap sucked out.

I spent 5 nights air sealing the attic floor, every crack, around every light, register, etc. I added 180 linear feet of 18 inch tall insulation "walls". My ceilings are multi-height, so the insulation would just fall off the edges. Only had 12 inches of builder insulation in the center of the section, but it all tapered off to zero inches at the edges. Like this:



After all the HVAC, ducts, attic floor sealing and insulation dams were built, the insulation company blew in 18" of white stuff throughout.

I set the humidity to 45% and the Trane maintains it. The house always feels cooler even with the thermostat set warmer than our previous unit, due to the lower humidity. Also, my old unit shook the kitchen cabinets and all the glasses in them. The new unit cannot be heard from inside. The variable speed blower is amazing, because you can barely feel the air move. I never know when it's running.

If you're considering installing a new HVAC system, there are several important factors to keep in mind. Here are a few things to consider:
[ol]

Energy efficiency: HVAC systems can use a lot of energy, so it's important to choose a system that is energy-efficient. Look for systems with high SEER (Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio) ratings, which indicate how efficient the system is.

Size: It's important to choose a system that is appropriately sized for your home. An HVAC professional can perform a load calculation to determine the right size for your home.

Type of system: There are several types of HVAC systems, including central air conditioning, ductless mini-split systems, and heat pumps. Each has its own pros and cons, so consider which type will work best for your home and budget.

Maintenance: Like any mechanical system, your HVAC system will require regular maintenance to keep it running smoothly. Make sure you understand what maintenance is required and factor that into your decision-making.

Cost: HVAC systems can be expensive, so it's important to consider the upfront cost as well as any long-term savings in energy costs. You may also want to look into financing options if the upfront cost is prohibitive.

[/ol]Overall, installing a new HVAC system can be a big investment, but it's one that can provide significant benefits in terms of comfort and energy savings. Be sure to do your research and work with a qualified HVAC professional to ensure you choose the right system for your home.

Glad it worked out! Hope you got the annual service plan ....