Hi all. Electrical question for ya. I replaced a switch that was bad in the garage. But this light still won't turn off. It's always on and it annoys me. It's on the same circuit as the garage door opener beside it.

Any idea why they wouldn't have a switch for a light bulb?

Did they use that as a the junction box for the garage door opener? Looks like they are running something after the light that needs, or they wanted to have, constant power.

If they added the garage door opener via the light then you'd be turning off the garage door opener when you turn off the light.

03_Aggie said:

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Did they use that as a the junction box for the garage door opener? Looks like they are running something after the light that needs, or they wanted to have, constant power.

If they added the garage door opener via the light then you'd be turning off the garage door opener when you turn off the light.

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That's the thing. No switch controls that power. Every switch in the garage either controls something else, or makes no change when flipped. It's crazy

I suspect your switch that makes no change is the switch to the light it's just not breaking the circuit because of the way the light is wired.

I could be wrong but I bet one of those wires comes from a switch and if you break the neutrals and wire the hot and neutral to the light, the light and switch would work. Problem is that you'd kill power to everything after the light.

ETA: the switch probably needs a reworking too.

03_Aggie said:

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I suspect your switch that makes no change is the switch to the light it's just not breaking the circuit because of the way the light is wired.

I could be wrong but I bet one of those wires comes from a switch and if you break the neutrals and wire the hot and neutral to the light, the light and switch would work. Problem is that you'd kill power to everything after the light.

ETA: the switch probably needs a reworking too.

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This was my thought. I don't want to kill the garage door opener every time I turn the light off.

But why would the switch be doing absolutely nothing even now? It's so weird.

My question is how does the light work with two hot wires/ no neutral attached? Typically you have a hot, neutral, ground wire passing through a switch box, hot being broken by the switch and continuing to the keyway fixture, hot and neutral attached to the light. Two hots or two betrayals aren't going to power it. So I'd unhook the wires and test each wire for hot and neutral. Check from 110 at each black/ white pair. When it's unhooked, does the garage opener work? Is there attic access to see what's going in and out of the ceiling boxes, which direction they come from and to?

That's where I'd start, determining what your pairs are and try to narrow down where the wires originate, either from a wall/ switch box or from the outlet next to it at the opener.

What does the wiring on the "dead" switch look like?

03_Aggie said:

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What does the wiring on the "dead" switch look like?

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One black one white wire. Connected.


I'll go through tomorrow to see which wire's are hot.

JP76 said:

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It looks like it is wired for a switch with the breaking of the black hot wires. Simplest solution is to install a porcelain pull string keyless.

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Porcelain-Lamp-Holder-with-Pull-Chain-and-Outlet-R60-09726-00C/100357030

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But that would kill anything beyond the light too right?

Does the light bulb dim or flicker when the garage door opener is operating?

Another thought, this looks a bit like it's wired to open the neutral instead of the line side.

If it were mine I would start pulling wires loose and checking voltage between white and black, white and bare, and black and bare in each of the 2 romex cables.

khaos288 said:

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Hi all. Electrical question for ya. I replaced a switch that was bad in the garage. But this light still won't turn off. It's always on and it annoys me. It's on the same circuit as the garage door opener beside it.

Any idea why they wouldn't have a switch for a light bulb?

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What happens when the light bulb goes out? Looks like it's in line with whatever is downstream from there.

The Fife said:

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khaos288 said:

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Hi all. Electrical question for ya. I replaced a switch that was bad in the garage. But this light still won't turn off. It's always on and it annoys me. It's on the same circuit as the garage door opener beside it.

Any idea why they wouldn't have a switch for a light bulb?

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What happens when the light bulb goes out? Looks like it's in line with whatever is downstream from there.

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If I take the bulb out the garage door opener still works.

The switch was a white and black wire in the box only. Looks like they may be wired backwards

Are you sure that is the right switch for that light ?

If there is only 1 romex wire at the switchbox consisting of a 1 black and 1 white wire, , then that means power is being fed to the fixture and not to the switch.

http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-switch-power-into-light.html

Can you get up in the attic and trace where the wires are going to from the switch ?

And where they go to from the box in the ceiling ?

What doesn't make sense is if the power is feeding the light first, and on a switch, then there should be a third romex wire that is feeding the garage opener coming to the light box.

JP76 said:

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Are you sure that is the right switch for that light ?

If there is only 1 romex wire at the switchbox consisting of a 1 black and 1 white wire, , then that means power is being fed to the fixture and not to the switch.

http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-switch-power-into-light.html

Can you get up in the attic and trace where the wires are going to from the switch ?

And where they go to from the box in the ceiling ?

What doesn't make sense is if the power is feeding the light first, and on a switch, then there should be a third romex wire that is feeding the garage opener coming to the light box.

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Unfortunately there is no attic access here because there is a room above the garage.

The switch doesn't seem to be wired correctly at all. Here are all three components. The bulb looks like it's just in line on the way to the garage door. And the switch is just completely useless.

I had the same question as JP76- how do you know the 'dead' switch is related to the ceiling bulb? That's why I think you need to probe with a meter.

However- your new pictures raise all kinda questions. Note that the blue switch box and the blue ceiling light box are 'old work' boxes. These are not original construction- someone has hacked into the circuits. Also note the romex at the wall switch comes through the drywall next to the box- odd, why? May not be code. The ceiling light is wired like a switch box- not a fixture. I wondered if it is in series with the garage door opener.

Can't tell for sure but you may have a mess with someone's mods.

That outlet is feeding something downstream.
My guess is it is feeding the light fixture box but you will need to determine this with a sniffer or meter.
If the hot is coming from the outlet to the fixture box and the other romex is for sure going to that light switch then this is how you wire the light fixture

http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-switch-power-into-light.html

It looks like at one time there wasn't a light there or maybe was a pullstring one where the opener outlet is now. And someone tied into that outlet to add a switched light.

Khaos - where are you? If close to me I may can come help you.

AgEngineer72 said:

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I had the same question as JP76- how do you know the 'dead' switch is related to the ceiling bulb? That's why I think you need to probe with a meter.

However- your new pictures raise all kinda questions. Note that the blue switch box and the blue ceiling light box are 'old work' boxes. These are not original construction- someone has hacked into the circuits. Also note the romex at the wall switch comes through the drywall next to the box- odd, why? May not be code. The ceiling light is wired like a switch box- not a fixture. I wondered if it is in series with the garage door opener.

Can't tell for sure but you may have a mess with someone's mods.

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Yes the new pictures scream amateur hack job. If you are not familiar with electricity it may be best to pay a licensed electrician for 1 hour of their time to resolve this correctly and safely.

JP76 said:

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AgEngineer72 said:

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I had the same question as JP76- how do you know the 'dead' switch is related to the ceiling bulb? That's why I think you need to probe with a meter.

However- your new pictures raise all kinda questions. Note that the blue switch box and the blue ceiling light box are 'old work' boxes. These are not original construction- someone has hacked into the circuits. Also note the romex at the wall switch comes through the drywall next to the box- odd, why? May not be code. The ceiling light is wired like a switch box- not a fixture. I wondered if it is in series with the garage door opener.

Can't tell for sure but you may have a mess with someone's mods.

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Yes the new pictures scream amateur hack job. If you are not familiar with electricity it may be best to pay a licensed electrician for 1 hour of their time to resolve this correctly and safely.

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Yeah I have some minor experience wirig things but even with a multimeter and the internet, I'd rather not do it myself.

I'm in Lewisville. 72

I'm no electrician but why two black wires to the light?

convenient Khaos- I'm in Flower Mound. Give me some contact info.

AgEngineer72 said:

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convenient Khaos- I'm in Flower Mound. Give me some contact info.

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Wow that is about as convenient as it gets. Feel free to call or text at 2545411036. Thanks so much!

The switch wiring is fine, if the hot is serving the fixture first, you can circuit through the fixture and have a single Romeo to the switch, but white should be marked black as that Romeo is just carrying and breaking the hot leg.

What I'm thinking is one of the black white pairs at the light should be hot in and the other pair is to the switch, assuming this switch operates this little light. If so, the white wire of the hot pair needs to attach to attach to the silver screw of the light fixture. The white wire running to the switch needs to be marked black and tie to the gold screw of the fixture. The blacks tie together, sending hot to the switch, the switch breaks the hot, sending power back to the light on the white (marked black) hot carrier wire. Now you'd have a hot and neutral connected to the light as intended.

But you need a voltage meter, preferably one with an ohms tester, to test hot/ neutral coming in and use the ohm meter to test the other wire as a complete circuit broken. Y the switch.

Hopefully that reads in clear English...

Was AgEngineer able to get your issue determined??

toolshed said:

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Was AgEngineer able to get your issue determined??

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We're gonna get it sorted when he's got some free time.

Fun update. I never quite got with agengineer but I kept trying to figure this thing out.

Turns out the wire to the switch was running black-in to switch. Then white out of the switch. Basically making a huge loop toswitch the neutral wire on the light.

Problem is, whoever put the garage door opener in tacked that line right into the wire and was closing the loop. Also almost burning the house down.