tldr: $1600 to do "rqd permit/code work" to replace a Evap coil under home warranty sounds crazy right?


We have a leak in one of our Evap units and our home warranty will replace the entire unit - so that's good news and we only pay $125

The bad news is the HVAC company told them we need to pull a permit for the repair. And the HVAC co won't order the new coil until we approve their quote for required upgrades per code to pass inspection.

For the "code" work They've quoted us about $1600 including:

1. $350 for 10lbs refrigerant
2. $178 for Condensate Float Switch
3. $235 for Emergency Drain Pan (coil only-new coil larger than old)
4. $348 for Drain Line
5. $268 for Mastec (seal supply/transition)
6. $95 for Access Port Locking Caps
7. $187 to pull Permit

I called the city and at first the inspector I got on the phone said he probably wouldn't even require a permit for a coil repair inside the attic for existing construction (our house was built in 2002). But he mentioned the permit can be done online for $30

After that he said he'd dig into it and called back and left me a voice mail saying we only needed a permit if we either a) exceeded 10lbs refrigerant (Purin in our case) or b) had a greater than 1hp motor (we do but no one can tell me exact size)

I guess my question is how do I find out what exactly is needed to meet code and what should be part of the repair?

and is $1600 reasonable?

If we have to for sure do all this work, I'm going to call home warranty and ask why they don't pay for it - they are obligated to replace the unit per contract and it's not our fault if it's no longer available (per repair tech)

The inspector has been pretty cool so far but has basically said "I can't help you with their quote". When I called to speak with a manager at the HVAC co, he said they only just stared having to pull the permits in the past couple of weeks and said we were over 1hp motor so it's required.

In theory we're getting a new Evap for $125 but it sure sounds like a shyte load of extra BS $$


I'd like to call out another service but it'll take us another 48 hours to get someone out thru the home warranty company and we would be lucky to get it all repaired next week


TIA

This is how a lot of warranty companies and their contractors make their money, by screwing you over "code improvements" which of course aren't covered.

I've never seen anyone pull a permit for HVAC repair or replacement, out of probably a dozen systems I or family members have had work done on or replaced.

edit: as an example of how you're getting screwed, for what they quoted for duct sealant you could buy 11 gallons of the stuff at your nearest friendly big box. It would surprise me if they went over 32oz for what you're having done.

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Design-Polymerics-64-fl-oz-Gray-Duct-Sealant/3736193

thanks Fife! sounds way too fishy to me.

$187 for a $30 permit was the fist clue...

texrover,

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After that he said he'd dig into it and called back and left me a voice mail saying we only needed a permit if we either a) exceeded 10lbs refrigerant (Purin in our case) or b) had a greater than 1hp motor (we do but no one can tell me exact size)

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I'm surprised that your blower motor is > 1HP. Even the 5-ton air handlers that I've seen only have a 3/4HP blower motor in them. Is this some super-large unit?

Do you know the make and model # of your air handler? If so, you can check the blower motor HP yourself. More importantly, you can also see if the _exact_ replacement coil is available (even aftermarket) so you don't incur a bunch of unnecessary retrofit charges.

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In theory we're getting a new Evap for $125 but it sure sounds like a shyte load of extra BS $$

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I agree. Even without a warranty, $1,600 should buy you an evaporator coil replacement.

FWIW, congratulations on having a R410A (Puron) system. Most units installed in 2002 were still using R22 (Freon), and it sounds like you'll get hit about $80/pound to have that installed today.

I think my folks in Houston got permits on their AC units; that was 2 brand new inside/outside units.

Some of their repairs are laughable. Unless your drain line is 1/4" tubing, my 2010 built house has 1/2" PVC. That should still be fine. Unless the current drain goes to the roof as the primary, it shouldn't need to be "brought to code".

$350 for 10 lbs of freon? If you are getting a new unit (inside/out), the outside unit comes precharged with Freon (Puron, R-410a). Usually enough for the system and 50 feet of tubing. So unless they are buying a nitrogen purged unit (they exist, but usually not sold), you shouldn't need more freon. Unless you have like 100+ feet of tubing (outside units are really far from inside units).

$95 for access locking caps? Most systems I have seen don't care that you can get into it. Or if it really matters (and it doesn't), coat the covers with Mastic. Unless they are concerned about someone stealing your Freon from your system outside. In that case, is your unit in a high traffic, high crime area? Buy some brass covers on Amazon and replace the plastic POS that come standard.

Float switch? Good idea; haven't priced one. Turns off the system if you get water in the overflow pan. Prevents damage and alerts to primary drain not working.



If they are replacing the system (even just the outside unit), Freon comes with the work. Most of that list screams "scam" and are trying to fleece more money from you for work they aren't really making any money on. Similar to jiffy lube selling $20 air filters or $30 wipers when you go in for the $15 oil change.

~egon

**UPDATE: Inspector called back today and left another vmail - he said flatly no permit required for repair of a sealed unit; I'm going to go down and see him and confirm if that includes "replacement" vs "repair"; I have a guess he's going to say stop asking questions and just get it done...with another contractor and no permit

I called American Home Shield today and they said I could take a cash option and contract the repair myself which is what I'm inclined to do right now....



Thank you Ribeye and Dr.doctor

Yeah, a float switch is a great idea so I agree but obviously don't want to go about it this way lol!

I pulled the model and serial number and went to Carrier and so far no success; I think we have a "commercial" grade unit (?) the previous owner was in commercial real estate and I'm sure got a deal there and went with Puron.

All of our units are 4/4.5 ton; maybe the commercial grade runs a larger motor?

Model is:

CE3AXA05000ABAA

Serial is:

3901X63057

Texrover, are you sure that's the model numbel of the A/C unit itself or just of the Evaporator Coil?

Reason I ask is I tried googling that model number and it returned no results. When I just googled CE3AXA, it came back with Carrier evaporator coil information. Maybe why you're unable to get the motor HP number info!

Good point Gary! That is the Evap coil - I went by what the tech wrote on the work order! Thx for pointing that out!

Motor HP i would think refers to the condensing unit as that is what actually contains refrigerant.

We pay ~130 for a 24lb jug of 404/410. If you don't have a crazy long line set, 10lbs is a lot of refer for a home ac unit.

Drain pans are cheap, even a huge one lists for under 100.00.

Drain line probably is PVC, and a couple tubes of sealant.

My price on locking caps is 75/ dozen.

He's trying to make himself some extra money on parts.

i think you should just get your warranty company to pay you the cost for what they are quoting to repair, and find your own more reputable AC company to fix it.

Thx to all for responding

I checked the condenser motor as well and it's less than 1hp

I've got a good AC company we usually work with (And they are Aggies) and we will draw a check from home warranty just need them to tell us check amount

If anyone has a good AC company in the McKinney/Prosper/Celina area let me know

I need a couple of back up options - our guys are garland : mesquite area and need to make sure they can get up here ASAP

Thanks again!

Edit: obviously we have to pay for some of the items regardless - we will likely need a different model coil - and I'm happy to pull a permit and add what makes sense (float switch etc) but we have a renovation coming up that requires HVAC moves and I will probably do any updates / changes on all units at one time (we have 4 units)

Wow, the saga continues -

I checked with American Home Shield and they will only cover $336 for refrigerant, labor, and the coil. The technician said they were replacing "the entire unit" and not doing a repair to the coil, but I'd be shocked if the entire evap can be replaced for $336 but who knows, warranty co says they get "really good prices"

AHS will only take the word of the contractor that a permit is required; they won't authorize lesser work.
The only quote I've gotten from another vendor is $2925 so we are stuck in the mud.

So I guess $1558 is about is cheap as it's going to get for now...but the MRS is getting pretty cranky as it gets hotter - that's not doing me in favors....

Fortunately for us our system is oversized and we've been relatively ok until now without the one unit cooling normally.

But now that we're getting hotter outside it's about to get worse. This unit covers the kitchen so when we cook, we "cook"....

quote:

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**UPDATE: Inspector called back today and left another vmail - he said flatly no permit required for repair of a sealed unit; I'm going to go down and see him and confirm if that includes "replacement" vs "repair"; I have a guess he's going to say stop asking questions and just get it done...with another contractor and no permit

I called American Home Shield today and they said I could take a cash option and contract the repair myself which is what I'm inclined to do right now....



Thank you Ribeye and Dr.doctor

Yeah, a float switch is a great idea so I agree but obviously don't want to go about it this way lol!

I pulled the model and serial number and went to Carrier and so far no success; I think we have a "commercial" grade unit (?) the previous owner was in commercial real estate and I'm sure got a deal there and went with Puron.

All of our units are 4/4.5 ton; maybe the commercial grade runs a larger motor?

Model is:

CE3AXA05000ABAA

Serial is:

3901X63057

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If you ever have a time when the system comes on but will not cool, check the float switch. At least twice I accidentally bumped it and turned off the compressor outside. Fortuntatly the 1st time my neighbor, who was an AC tech, told me to check that first and sure enough, I reset it and the system came back on.

Tex,

quote:

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So I guess $1558 is about is cheap as it's going to get for now...but the MRS is getting pretty cranky as it gets hotter - that's not doing me in favors....

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Been there, brother.

Do you have any idea of how big your evaporator coil leak is, or how much refrigerant you're losing per month? Has anyone tried recharging the unit, or have they definitively located the leak?

I say this because if you're fed up with jumping through all these hoops under your home warranty, have a fairly small leak, and don't mind rolling the dice a little bit, pay a serviceman to install a can of Cliplight Super Seal Total, which is a leak sealant, dryer, and UV dye all in one product. It seals leaks up to the thickness of a human hair anywhere in the system.

Now, if your system has significant moisture contamination you run a risk of damaging something, as the product cures in the presence of water vapor, and I wouldn't use it, but otherwise, these sealants have their place.

It's about $50/can uninstalled, and you need to install it into a fully-charged system.

I've used it in the past with a 23 year old evaporator and found it to work. Other guys call the sealant a dangerous, damaging, dastardly snake oil, especially the guys who want to sell you a new evaporator coil. :-)

Thanks Ribeye -

I might be persuaded; but I guess you run the risk of replacing an Evap and compressor coil too if it blows up?

Also I'm shutting it down at night to avoid freezing up and causing more problems

I checked it one morning and when I shut it off you could hear ice falling inside the unit so...not sure if we've pushed it too hard for the sealant to be an option (?)

Tex,

quote:

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I checked it one morning and when I shut it off you could hear ice falling inside the unit so...not sure if we've pushed it too hard for the sealant to be an option (?)

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If it's freezing up, and has been for a while, that means it's low on refrigerant, but still has some refrigerant left, which is a good sign that the leak is not catastrophic, and potentially is sealable.

The good thing about the 'Total' product is that it also contains UV Dye. If for some reason the leak is too big to seal, the dye will seep out and you can see it with a pair of special glasses and a UV flashlight. Sometimes those leaks are just at connection points and a new coil is not required.

The new IRC for new construction comes out sept 1st. Lots of red tags about to happen

To my surprise, I did a Google search on permits/code with an evaporator coil replacement and I found this 8 year old TexAgs thread. Time to dust this thread off and get some advice from my fellow Ags. The HVAC contractor AHS sent out today told me the same thing. AHS will cover the evaporator coil replacement but not the $2900 in code issues and R-22 refrigerant.

PlanoAg98 said:

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To my surprise, I did a Google search on permits/code with an evaporator coil replacement and I found this 8 year old TexAgs thread. Time to dust this thread off and get some advice from my fellow Ags. The HVAC contractor AHS sent out today told me the same thing. AHS will cover the evaporator coil replacement but not the $2900 in code issues and R-22 refrigerant.

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A leaking evaporator coil is what caused me to end my american home shield warranty. Their hvac provider quoted the same $1600 to 2000 ish in code upgrades. This was pre covid. The mastec cracked me up that they considered it a code upgrade. I was like you have to seal it all back up no matter what. But they claim mastec was 'extra'.

The cash option Ahs offered for the coil was like less than $250 bucks. I couldn't even find the part for that price let alone the labor. yet they couldn't provide a link or any example of where I could buy the part for that price just claimed thats the standard price.

I ended up hiring my own hvac guy and he repaired the system with a shot of some leak stop stuff and then helped me limp along with it until this summer when we did a complete replacement.

I cancelled ahs and got a prorated refund after that.

Not to beat a dead horse but home warranties are a scam and provide a false sense of security.

That stinks. Maybe I was lucky, but I had a relatively good experience with Old Republic. The company they sent out to diagnose initially was scummy and tried to oversell me on a replacement unit. Old Republic let me use my own HVAC contractor and cut me a $2200 check for the evaporator coil after it was done.

This is standard operating procedure or maybe shady operating procedure for warranty companies. Most of that stuff is just stuff they have to do to replace the evaporator coil. The float switch and locking caps are upgrades basically, code depending on where you are.

But basically they are differing cost and making profit in their typical scammy way and it is hard to fight them.

Had a similar years ago in my old house I bought a policy because the acs were 15 and I knew I was going to sell and did not want to replace them since they still worked. Had an outside unit destroy itself after they had replaced the fan. A fan blade sheared off and tore up the unit.

For the full replacement of the condenser they gave me a smaller similar list of code updates that weren't.
Came to about a thousand. I tried to argue with them. They basically told me to agree while being recorded and in email to pay the code updates in cash when they showed up or they would not come out and would cancel my policy. Since the thousand was still cheaper than full price and I was a week into it I gave in. But showed how truly unethical those companies are and I would not pay for one again most likely.

Here is what the AHS HVAC company is wanting to charge me. Note: AHS is covering the cost of the coil replacement. Below are the code & refrigerant cost. My unit is R-22.

PlanoAg98 said:

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Here is what the AHS HVAC company is wanting to charge me. Note: AHS is covering the cost of the coil replacement. Below are the code & refrigerant cost. My unit is R-22.

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That is a scam!