So, I am doing my own master bathroom remodel in Houston and am trying to do everything on the up and up (ie, pulling permits and getting things inspected) to try to save on any potential headaches down the road. I am doing almost all the work myself and would like to redo some of the electrical as part of the remodel in order to optimize it for the new layout of the space. The problem is the city of Houston, in its never ending wisdom, has decided that it is impossible for a non-licensed electrician to be competent enough to move a few outlets around and change out a light fixture and so I can't legally do it myself. Does anyone in the Houston area (specifically west Houston) know of any electricians who would be willing to pull an electrical permit, let the homeowner do most of the labor to save the majority of their cost, check the work to make sure it meets their standards, and then have it inspected under their name? Not trying to cut safety corners or anything here, I just can't justify paying the full cost to have an electrician do something that a day 1 apprentice could handle.
Thanks in advance for any tips.

Just FYI - That is not a City of Houston requirement, it is Texas State Law. Personally, I think homeowners should be able to pull permits for minor electrical, like changing out a fixture or receptacle, and maybe installation of a small number of devices. You can pull a homeowners permit for almost everything else.

And if you have permit or process questions, feel free to hit me up.

You mean "not only" a city requirement?

And can you reference the Texas and city laws? I was under the impression that anything downstream of the panel was DIY allowed.

Really? This may be out of date or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place but from the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation's website it says this:
"The following persons are specifically exempted by the law, or those who perform the following examples of electrical work are not required by the state to be licensed as electricians (note: municipal or regional regulations may override these exemptions, see below*):
BUILDINGS

• elevators, escalators, or related equipment excluding power sources
• building, structure, or equipment in agricultural use
• a dwelling by a person who owns and resides in the dwelling
• construction and assembly of HUD-code manufactured housing or modular housing and building units, excluding service entrance conductors, performed by a licensed manufacturer or installer"

To me that looks like the state allows a person to do their own work as long as it meets code?

I don't personally deal with the intricacies of the codes, so I made a call. Where permits are required, State Law requires a master electrician to pull the permit. Houston requires permits, and therefore the master electrician provision kicks in.

And to Dr. Venkman, that is the way I read the state code, but the City of Houston Permitting website specifically says all electrical work must be done by a licensed electrician and will not even allow the homeowner to pull an electrical permit.

Thanks Ryan, that is a helpful clarification. I have learned today that it is not easy for a layman to find relevant information of his project about codes and permitting.

Let me know if I can be of assistance. Code Enforcement is one of the branches in my division.

Thanks, any Idea if the city is going to say that moving a wall but leaving the electrical alone requires a permit if all the electrical wiring stays the same? I wouldn't think it would, but then, I also wouldn't think it would require a permit to change out a busted electrical outlet...

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Thanks, any Idea if the city is going to say that moving a wall but leaving the electrical alone requires a permit if all the electrical wiring stays the same? I wouldn't think it would, but then, I also wouldn't think it would require a permit to change out a busted electrical outlet...

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Structural changes will require a structural permit, which you can pull yourself. Yes, changing out a receptacle technically does require a permit, but I'm not going to offer you any advice on that in writing on TexAgs.

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Does anyone in the Houston area (specifically west Houston) know of any electricians who would be willing to pull an electrical permit, let the homeowner do most of the labor to save the majority of their cost, check the work to make sure it meets their standards, and then have it inspected under their name?

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With all due respect, reread that and you'll answer you own question.

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Really? This may be out of date or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place but from the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation's website it says this:
"The following persons are specifically exempted by the law, or those who perform the following examples of electrical work are not required by the state to be licensed as electricians (note: municipal or regional regulations may override these exemptions, see below*):
BUILDINGS

• elevators, escalators, or related equipment excluding power sources
• building, structure, or equipment in agricultural use
• a dwelling by a person who owns and resides in the dwelling
• construction and assembly of HUD-code manufactured housing or modular housing and building units, excluding service entrance conductors, performed by a licensed manufacturer or installer"

To me that looks like the state allows a person to do their own work as long as it meets code?

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Once upon a time, an electrician would have a Houston license, an SA license, etc. Out in the sticks it was the wild, wild west when it came to code and permits. TDLR took over to make things more uniform, and created what the OP found as a statewide basic requirement. Municipalities can and do modify that as they see fit, dream up, or randomly decide. Some still allow homeowners to do whatever. Most larger cities don't.

Underoos is right - the master electrician who pulls the permit is vouching for the work by putting his or her name and license on that permit.

You would almost be better off bootlegging the work, then calling an electrician to come in after the fact to inspect/correct your work, then pull a permit if they are comfortable with it being inspected under their license.

Disclaimer: Bootlegging work is not legal, and I am not in any way advocating that you or anyone else bootleg any work. This post does not represent any official position of the City of Houston.

Also, the Electrical Code is going to be revised next Wednesday.

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calling an electrician to come in after the fact to inspect/correct your work, then pull a permit if they are comfortable with it being inspected under their license..

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IMO you would be hard pressed to find one to do that for you. It may sound nuts, but they are not just getting a permit for you, they are assuming a degree of long term liability on your behalf. And they would be, in essence, making less money just to do you a favor. Either that, or for what they would probably charge to cover your permit, inspecting your work, handling the city inspection, etc. It was would quickly approach the cost of them just doing it.

From a logistics standpoint and depending on the work involved, you would be unable to get a rough-in and then final or trim out inspection if the electrician followed you for work already complete.

Your next question should be isn't it stupid that I'm getting hosed trying to do the right thing, and the answer is yes.

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calling an electrician to come in after the fact to inspect/correct your work, then pull a permit if they are comfortable with it being inspected under their license..

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IMO you would be hard pressed to find one to do that for you. It may sound nuts, but they are not just getting a permit for you, they are assuming a degree of long term liability on your behalf. And they would be, in essence, making less money just to do you a favor. Either that, or for what they would probably charge to cover your permit, inspecting your work, handling the city inspection, etc. It was would quickly approach the cost of them just doing it.

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Bingo!

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Just FYI - That is not a City of Houston requirement, it is Texas State Law. Personally, I think homeowners should be able to pull permits for minor electrical, like changing out a fixture or receptacle, and maybe installation of a small number of devices. You can pull a homeowners permit for almost everything else.

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Wait, you're technically supposed to have a permit to change out a fixture or receptacle? Really?

I know of a few electricians that will inspect after the fact. Most will. The master electrician rarely even does the work. Most companies have the master inform and sign off on stuff and then a bunch of illegal laborers do all of the wire pulling. Knowing this fact, no matter what you do, it would behoove you to know the code requirements and understand the work so you can supervise it.

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Just FYI - That is not a City of Houston requirement, it is Texas State Law. Personally, I think homeowners should be able to pull permits for minor electrical, like changing out a fixture or receptacle, and maybe installation of a small number of devices. You can pull a homeowners permit for almost everything else.

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Wait, you're technically supposed to have a permit to change out a fixture or receptacle? Really?

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In some places, yes.

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I know of a few electricians that will inspect after the fact. Most will. The master electrician rarely even does the work. Most companies have the master inform and sign off on stuff and then a bunch of illegal laborers do all of the wire pulling. Knowing this fact, no matter what you do, it would behoove you to know the code requirements and understand the work so you can supervise it.

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O rly

Absolutely, O'RLY. I didnt mean to imply they are ALL like that. OK..OK.....maybe they aren't ILLEGALS...It might be harder to get away with in the city with permits and whatnot, but it absolutely happens far more than I wanted to think.

In their defense, my job as a teenager was wiring new houses, wire, receptacles, breakers, panel installs, etc, and done under the guidance and supervision of a master electrician I find it OK. In my experience, larger electric contractors do this all the time. ME designs the install.....and then shows up after its complete to QC.

I bet small shops don't do that though.

Im not *****ing at all though. Its efficient. Its going to depend heavily on the electrician...if its a regional outfit, they won't allow you to do your own work. If its a guy thats been in business for 35 years, he may let you do all of your own work and then just check it. That's how mine does it, but he also knows Im competent and won't kill myself re-arranging circuits between panels.

Im sure the CoH will poo poo any of that idea though....

Or find a retired ME who still maintains a license who might just want a few bucks for spending money.

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In my experience, larger electric contractors do this all the time. ME designs the install.....and then shows up after its complete to QC.

I bet small shops don't do that though.

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The missing piece here is the Journeyman, who is also licensed, but not as a Master. If I went to TDLR tomorrow to create Texags Electric, the process would require somebody having an ME license. Unless TA Electric is one guy in one truck doing nothing but ceiling fans by himself forever, the ME won't be able to be everywhere at once. Enter the Journeyman. Houston, like SA and other places, will define the roles of a Master, Journeyman, Apprentice, Sign Electricians, Maintenance Electricians, and Residential Wireman. They also go on to define the ratios for a jobsite where you must have X Journeymen for every Y Apprentices. On a house, it probably won't matter much. On a $200MM hospital, it makes a big difference. SA had a big blow up in the industry years back when the Electrical board reduced the ratio to make it match IBEW requirements. The open shops, understandably, threw a fit, but that's a whole different argument.

City of Houston's electrical code. Good crapper or insomnia-curing reading.

http://edocs.publicworks.houstontx.gov/documents/divisions/planning/enforcement/2011_nec.pdf

Thanks y'all, this has all been a lot of help and very informative. After surviving the permitting office today and talking to both the plan reviewer and a couple of inspectors it seems the only thing Houston will let me the homeowner pull the permit for is to put in an exhaust fan. Also I learned that I am not in the market for an electrician because I need an electrical permit just for the work that I definitely haven't already done and absolutely didn't so before pulling the permit of moving a wall that has 2 outlets in it. So on that note, does anyone know any good electricians who won't overcharge because they can and may even be open to letting the homeowner help with simple things like pulling the cable through the walls etc.? Second part is less important than the first, now that Houston knows I am doing a remodel. I guess that's what I get for doing things the right way, no good deed goes unpunished right? As UnderoosAg put it, getting hosed for trying to do the right thing. I now understand all the shady flippers doing unpermitted work. You'd think if I'm willing to let my work be inspected they wouldn't care who does the work. Guess that's what I get for trying to apply common sense to a government agency. But I digress, so good electricians in west Houston (spring branch area specifically)?

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Or find a retired ME who still maintains a license who might just want a few bucks for spending money.

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Most of those guys in this town have an EC already using them

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it seems the only thing Houston will let me the homeowner pull the permit for is to put in an exhaust fan.

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That's not true. You can pull anything except electrical and mechanical.

give Mark a call with Luchak Electric a call.
281-450-2673

In Houston, if you (the homeowner) simply add an outlet on a wall without a permit, how will it be known, ever, that it was done without a permit? Or add a ceiling fan box?

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In Houston, if you (the homeowner) simply add an outlet on a wall without a permit, how will it be known, ever, that it was done without a permit? Or add a ceiling fan box?

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99% of the time, it won't.

Unfortunately in my case, it would be a pretty hard sell that I hadn't done any electrical work when the inspector sees a brand new wall with two outlets in it...

Is he going to see it before and after? Is he going to see a brand new wall or a wall you had re-textured and re-trimmed that just looks brand new? Cosmetic changes don't require permits.

hint, hint. nudge, nudge.

That is an excellent thought but unfortunately the wall will have new plumbing in it needing to be inspected so it will be open and obviously new... on a brighter note i may have found an electrician who will allow me to basically work as an apprentice under him to save me some on the cost.

Maybe i should start a single thread on this bathroom remodel to cover my whole project...

Blackgold - can we talk sometime? I'm in spring branch, west Houston. I foresee that I'll be in a similar situation in the near future.

Chuckj95 at yahoo

ryanthetemp03 at g m a i l

I'm happy to talk about the process any time. Officially or unofficially.