EDIT: Staff was kind enough to change the thread title to better reflect what this project has grown into, and I've added some explanatory text below.

It started out as a tankless water heater installation, but rapidly grew into something more substantial. When you pull the thread on an 80 year-old house, you never know what you're going to find. As you will see later on in the thread, the room where the new water heater will be located had a lot of problems that became evident once I opened up the walls with the intention of only replacing the sheetrock. I figured that if I had to essentially rebuild the entire room, I might as well go for a much better use.

I have what I call a sunroom - it was originally a back porch that was later enclosed with windows on three sides. The plan will be to partition some of the space into a walk-in pantry, where the water heater will be, and a laundry room. My laundry is currently out in the back of a utility room behind my detached garage that is going to be demolished and rebuilt.

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And so it begins. I'll use this thread to post my progress as I install my new tankless water heater. The WH should arrive later this week, but in the mean time, UPS brought me something sexy today:



That's a couple fine pieces of brass right there.

You are going with gas, did I understand that right?

Yes, that is correct.

Love mine. It's in the attic almost right above my master shower. The water is hot before I even get in.

[This message has been edited by Tibbles (edited 7/8/2014 2:45p).]

Got the unit today.

RTT, I look forward to following this thread. I just ordered a similar unit and it's next on my project list after tackling the load bearing wall you and others were helping me on.

I ordered the unit and the vent pipes, what are the brass valves you got?

i'll be interested in this, to see how DIY-able it is.

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what are the brass valves you got?

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That is the valve assembly kit for the cold and hot lines. It's basically everything you need all rolled into one nice, neat package to avoid putting together multiple fittings and valves. If you decide to use a valve assembly kit, I recommend ordering it on Amazon. The kit I bought was $108 on Amazon, and sells for $196 at Home Depot.

This photo shows a slightly different version of the valve assembly on the left, but gives you the general idea:

I've always heard that it's quite expensive to switch to tankless because larger lines (gas mainly) have to be run to accommodate it? It's not a simple swap? I have the original water heater in my house from 2001.

And larger vent since it has to draw so much air to burn. 200k btu v. 40k btu burners.

The model I got is 150,000 BTU and requires a 3/4" gas supply. Some models require a 1" gas supply. I have 1 1/4" gas service off the meter, so it isn't a problem. I am replumbing my entire house in this process.

The vent is a concentric direct vent, which has an outside diameter of 5 inches.

Most of the costs associated with going from a tank to a tankless system is the gas line and venting. If you have a short vent (tank in the attic or garage), the vent can be mostly easily solved.

If the gas line is not nearby or is too small, that can be an issue. I have a tankless (new construction house), but the gas line in my attic is 1". My parent's house though, it is 3/4", although the tank is in the attic. Running a new gas line would involve 2 attic spaces, 2 story rise and potentially drilling through brick exterior walls. Or running a gas line outside the exterior of the house.

But never running "out" of hot water? Glorious, let me tell you.... My only complaint is that the max temperature they will output is 120 (130, if you open it up and change a DIP switch). My parent's tank? Like 150 or so.

~egon

The problem I have with it is the time it takes to heat up and flush lines. Could be more than 3 minutes until you get hot water. A recirc pump would work but may void your heater warranty. I'm thinking about adding that but you'd still need a recirc valve at key places.

My existing WH is in my detached garage. Water travels through more than 75 feet of galvanized line to the house. It takes about six minutes for hot water in the shower, and the pressure sucks.

Is that where you are putting this one?

No. This will go in the house just outside the kitchen.

Comeby,

I would think you only need to install a surge vessel and a pump. Essentially come out of the WH and into the vessel. Pump runs off the vessel, but would have to install return lines and valves at a few places in the house. Using a tank/vessel would prevent the water from going back into the WH and "save" it somewhat.

Mine is above my kitchen sink, which is pretty central to the house. I think the longest time is my front 1/2 bath sink. Maybe 2 minutes, but I usually don't use hot water up there.

~egon

When I replmub the house I'm going to install a manifold and PEX for the hot so I can keep the pressure up. All of the hot lines are fed from a 1/2" line that comes in from the garage. I'm also planning to upgrade my water service to a 1" meter, which will increase overall pressure. I already have a cold manifold in place, but have not yet run PEX to fixtures other than the bathroom. I will also be replacing all of the black iron gas lines with CSST, since the 78 year-old gas lines can't pass a gas test.

Dr Doctor,
Thanks for the info, very helpful. You didn't happen to have this done in the DFW area, did you? I need a reputable and fair plumber to do that. I'm considering a water softener as well.

No, I live in Houston.

I have read about these things, since I wouldn't mind having hot water "on demand". But I think it is probably one of those things that would be better suited if you were fresh building a place or had full access to the attic for things.

One thing I did read about the pumps was to limit the run times only when you are home (similar to a thermostat). You could return the water back to the WH tank, instead of a secondary tank, but it would only run when you are at home/potentially needing it. No sense to run it from 2-5am (unless you wake up at 5 like some of us...)

~egon

Finally got around to starting this project. I haven't been in a hurry because demo on the garage has been delayed. Nonetheless, I began everybody's favorite part today - demolition.

I had to begin by relocating the existing cabinetry so I could remove the paneling.




Then I started taking the paneling down. Since this used to be an exterior wall, the old clapboard siding was not a surprise. I was also aware of windows in the dining room being removed and closed, which you can see with the unpainted shiplap on the left.

The original water heater plumbing was in this wall when the water heater was in the kitchen. This will make it a relatively easy retrofit since all of the openings are existing.




The gas opening is in there as well, among the 78 years of collected debris and residue. I have no idea how old that snail is.

I got a little more work done this weekend. Well ... today, anyway, and it wasn't any of the actual water heater work. I'm waiting on some supplies to come in from pexsupply.com. Aggie Football always wins over home improvement, so I did nothing on Saturday.

I cleaned out all the roach crap from the wall. There was 3 inches of it. That's the bad thing about owning an old house - every time you work on something you encounter a never-ending supply of roach crap.

Since I removed clapboard siding, there is a substantial gap open to the crawlspace I need to fill. Some spray foam should do the trick.



That last pic gave you a slight sneak peek at the one sidetrack involved in the project. Where the old windows were, I opened the wall up for a doorway, and am installing 48" French doors. Here is the other side of the wall we started with:



I got the sheetrock down for the rough opening:



A wider shot, showing all the crap I had to relocate from other places to work on this.



As the shiplap came down:



From the other side:

How are you planning on finishing the door?

I'm going to paint it white to match everything else in the rest of the house.

Makes sense, I guess that's a lot easier than dealing with the other doors.

I hear you about the roach crap btw. I find a bunch of it whenever I open up a wall or remove trim at the craftsman. A mouse nest from 1938 also turned up once too. There's never anything interesting or good in there.

When I did the bathroom, I found a 24" aluminum level someone left inside the wall when the house was built. That's the only thing remotely interesting I've ever found.

Great looking project! Make sure you bond the CSST correctly. It's different from the old black steel pipe. You may already know about that.

I had a fairly busy weekend, so I didn't get much done other than roughing in the doors.

First, I had to trim off the tails of the existing floor planks to allow for a clean transition when installing the threshold:



Then I got the doors roughed in. I have to say I'm very pleased with how they look, even at this stage. I got a feel for them when they were still wrapped up and leaning against the opening, but I'm still amazed at how different this makes the house.



I did manage to save myself some money by purchasing a damaged door unit. Home Depot knocked off $50 for a busted door frame, which is a very easy fix. I ended up getting the doors for $229.00.

RTT,
One of these days you're going to accidentally finish the house. And you're gonna have to sell it and move or be bored out of your mind.

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RTT,
One of these days you're going to accidentally finish the house. And you're gonna have to sell it and move or be bored out of your mind.

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You hush your mouth!

Actually, if we can ever get the garage apartment rebuilt, we are planning to relocate. We will rent the house, but even still, it will be that exact situation where I don't get to enjoy the fruits of my labor very long.

I meant you're gonna have to move to a fixer upper to stay busy.

I've already been warned that our next place will be move-in ready; no projects.

(and I promptly reminded him that HE is the one who wanted French doors, not me)

Not much progress to report, but I'm getting to the trim part of things on the dining room side.

Got the threshold in to transition to the other room. It isn't perfect, and there is a slight gap I need to fill between the old planks and the edge of the threshold, but all said, I think it looks pretty good.



I pulled the stops from the frame and used some trim as stops to cover the damaged frame:



I installed the door hardware as a test fit and to make sure my drill holes were in before painting the doors. I got the backplates from the local salvage warehouse and the knobs are reproduction. It's amazing how different hardware makes everything look.