In Cypress . . .

For those of you that have gotten work done on your attics in regards to efficiency, what should I expect to pay for radiant barrier, 10" spray-on insulation, ridge vents, and more soffit vents?

I know there are many variables associated with each part and my house is different from your house. I just want to make sure that we will be paying for something we need and will not be gouged for it.

Any company recommendations?

There was a long thread on the outdoors board (IIRC) about radiant barrier, and even a sticky pointing to it, but the 'sticky' has fallen off the page it appears.

Maybe someone with stars can help search for it.

As with anything, get several quotes. Then you might post what they propose for opinions.

Numbers will vary greatly.

Last I heard around DFW Radiant Barrier was .75 - 1.50 per square foot of roof decking.

I had about 1800 sf of attic upgraded with about 8 inches of insulation last Spring and it was $532. But I had quotes up to 800 or 900.

No idea on vents, will depend on lots of factors. Mainly pure labor. Make sure they install the baffles on the soffit vents.

http://www.atticfoil.com/

I highly suggest you do it yourself if you can. It's really not hard, unless your attic is a challenge to negotiate due to excessive structural supports, etc.

I bought a roll of the atticfoil product and had outstanding results. I did a lot of research before buying and also did my own little study (b/c I'm a nerd and wanted to know if it would actually work or not). We knew we needed something b/c the upstairs of our house would be 82 degrees while downstairs (where the thermostat was) would read 73. The house was orientated poorly with upstairs getting full blast of afternoon san antonio summer sun. After installing the foil, putting in a thermostat controlled exhaust fan, ensuring the soffits were clear of insulation to allow best ventilation possible, and installing solar screens over the windows, we would get temperatures of 74-75 when downstairs was 73. All told, I probably spent about $200-250 on materials.

The solar screens were a big improvement and something to look into if your windows are getting hit with afternoon sun. One of the biggest wastes of money people do is replacing windows with "high efficiency" windows. No matter what you do, the R-value is going to suck. Sure, it's "better" than it was and is the "best window out there", but you pay $100 for a $5 result. The solar screens worked like a charm though; i just built my own frames from materials availble at any Lowe's/HD and put the screens in myself. I also used some aluminum strip to put mounts on the trim so that the screens would actually sit out about 2" away from the house. This allows a little more natural light to filter in, and also allows better ventilation (the screens are pretty thick weave), but keeps the direct solar rays out.

personally, i wouldn't bother with the spray in insulation assuming you are talking about spraying it inbetween rafters. If you have sufficient blow-in insulation on the joists ("floor" of the attic), you don't need it if you put in the radiant barrier. If you don't have sufficient insulation there, that's where you need to address the problem. The spray-in insulation between rafters would again be a $100 effort for $5 result. The attic foil should cause the radiating heat to follow the rafters up and out the ridge vents or out exhaust fans. Keeping a fresh draw of air helps dramatically.

I forgot to mention, but I used a IR thermometer to measure the underside of the roof deck and the ambient temp in the attic. Before improvements, the deck was around 130-135 degrees and the air temp was 115-120. After improvements, the attic temp was only a couple degrees more than outside air temperature. Basically, you are just trying to make it so your existing blow-in insulation doesn't have to 'work' as hard.

Dwight has a point about the spray on stuff. Many companies now offer a package. While the spray barrier is so so on performance it does help a little.

Be careful on the foil. If your roof is at all complicated it is a MAJOR PIA to install yourself. I bought some for my house before REALLY thinking it through because I found a good deal on the foil. After struggling with it to get one portion of the attic done I gave up. There are companies that I have seen do a good job with it, it is more expensive but will work better if done right.

He is also right about solar screens if you have the right directional exposure and number of windows. They saved me about 25% on my house when I got them - I have a lot of east and west windows. They are also very noticeable on the comfort level inside the house.

Another vote for www.atticfoil.com, now my attic is < ambient, even in the summer. Cost about $300 in materials and I did it the garage as well. Much better than the spray on crap.

Anyone tried the spray on expandable foam? I have heard good things about it.

Foam is a whole different ballgame. Ideally it is used in a sealed attic design. Which will impact the type of furnace needed, the design of the HVAC in general, etc. It can work very well, but needs more engineering and design thought than the other stuff being discussed.

I have seen one house where they had the HVAC ductwork sealed with foam. Made sense since that ductwork is R-6 and is a real weak point in the efficiency system. Again, though I would talk with a HVAC guy first, as this may change the efficiency of the unit and could lead to humidity issues.

question on the attic foil;

If you don't have any ridge vents, will it still work well? I have the turbines ~2/3 of the way up the roof, but no ridge vents.

Won't the heat just get trapped at the top?

Radiant Barrier Thread
http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1166802&forum_id=34

agracer, it will still help. in my case, the exhaust fans were near the top, but not all the way up. I just killed it where the vent let and didn't worry about the top. I actually saw a noticeable difference after only doing ONE section of roof in my attic! That was the side that got the full blast of sun in the afternoon, and made a huuuuge difference by itself.

If you have just the passive whirly birds that just spin with the wind, I’d suggest getting an active unit that will actually suck the air out. You can get the unit from Lowe’s or HD for about $60-75 as I recall; you’ll get the biggest bang for your buck out of that. Once that’s done, if your vents are not near the top, but say only half way, I’d personally run the foil up to that point and leave an opening, then continue up along to the top. That will definitely help; sure, it’s not 100% ideal, but 90% is best than nothing.

No retrofit will be ideal. Dwight's advice seems good to me. I think the foil says to stop about 2 - 3 feet from the top anyway.

is that foil available anywhere in Houston. I realized this weekend is going to be the best for me (pretty full weekends in May) to try to get it done but atticfoil.com will take a few days for delivery.

tks

Atticfoil is next day delivery to here if you order before noon or so.

I had an estimate from one of the Attic Foil.com contractors....he said 2700sq.ft. at 80-cents a sq.ft. He said I have plenty of soffit vents, but the 3-turbines are a bit short and quoted a life time guarantee solar 800cfm fan for $500 (I can buy one for $300 or so that may be worth it to not have to climb on my roof).

So I said thanks but no thanks to the foil b/c there is not way in hell he'll get 2700 sq. ft into my attic.

He just measured the outside of the house, check the roof pitch in the attic and multiplied that factor. Now obviously this is just the way he estimates to make sure he makes money, and do a quicker estimate but it's not accurate at all.

I have several 9-foot ceilings in my attic and those joists meet the rafters way before the outside wall (like 4-6 ft worth) which significantly cuts down the sq.ft. Also, he measure the side of my house longer than the front and NFW that is right. I measured it myself and was 8' short of his measurement at even the widest place - which is also not accurate b/c you can't get attic foil into the bay window area of my kitchen (it has a separate lower roof). That's 300+ sq.ft. alone.

So I went into the attic, double checked the rafter spacing, counter spaces, measure from the low to high point and got close to 1,500 sq.ft. I double checked that by counting rafters in both directions and got ~1,600 sq.ft.

So I ordered 2,000sq.ft. of foil and it showed up last night. Neighbor let me borrow his power staple gun and I got started.

First, putting it up alone is a PITA in some places. If you have some where to rest the foil while you start (like an AC unit or section of duct) that first row of staples you're good..if not, you need 3-hands to hold everything together. I managed to get a 20-foot, 14-foot, and 2 6-foot sections installed, but I told my wife that tonight she WILL be helping me (sorry Royal wedding DVR, you'll have to wait).

You really just need a 2nd person to hold the other end of the foil while you start the first row of staples. And I strongly recommend you buy/beg/borrow/steal a power stapler.

The job is not that hard. Just plan ahead, remove the AC duct straps to clear yourself a path and cut 2-sections of foil and get to work.

[This message has been edited by agracer (edited 4/29/2011 11:00a).]

Add...

to measure & cut the foil, I got an broom handle and put it thru the foil roll, and set it on some saw horses. This way it rolls out nice and neat and 1-person can roll out and measure.

I also have a fold out table to pull the foil across and put a piece of cardboard across the table to protect where I will make my cuts. I put two 2x4's onto the table with gap between them to use as a cutting surface/channel. This way, when I cut, my utility knife is not running across the carboard or table, but into the gap between the 2x4's and only cutting the foil (it also help me cut straight).

If you don't have a table, I'd still recommend using a piece of carboard on your floor, and the 2x4 cutting gap/thing. It protects your floor and makes things easy to roll/measure.

[This message has been edited by agracer (edited 4/29/2011 11:15a).]

Got about 50%+ done...

spent almost as much time getting stuff ready;
set up to cut foil
remove duct straps from rafters
remove stuff from attic to make room
plan work
measure twice..cut once.

I would measure two sections, double check, then cut two pieces. I did the first two on my own and while they won't win any beauty contests, it's functional.

My wife helped me Friday night ( "Is this how you 'wooo' me on a Friday night?!?" ) and Saturday morning.

Worked some on Sunday to and my oldest Son helped me.

You really need a 2nd person to hold one end of the foil tight while you set up and staple from the other end. Works great and goes on pretty easy.

The hardest part with my roof is I have a lot of valleys and ridges out front which makes everything short (like 6'-8' long) pieces that take just as much time to measure cut, climb into attic, get unrolled in place....etc... as a 30-foot piece. The 30ft piece takes maybe an extra 5m to staple in place.

As I noted, I'm over 50% done and haven't used up the first 1000sq.ft. roll yet.

It's still warm in the attic, but it wasn't near as bad as it would normally be on a 90° day like Saturday.

Pics?

Ttt for pictures.

sorry....been busy with other stuff and have not had a chance to get it finished or take any photos. There is one section not done so I'll get a before/after of that area and post it. Probably be the end of the week before that happens though.

OK, it's all done but I left the pictures at home. I'll get them up tonight.

The high last Sunday was ~92° and at 4:00 PM the temp in the attic was 98°. Heck of a lot cooler than before.

When I get my energy bill in June and July I'll update the KWH compared to last summer and factor in that I also have a new AC unit (SEER 13 vs 10+yr old rated SEER 10).

Mine actually stays at or below ambient, even in 100+ heat. The non-AC'd detached garage I did it to may creep to a few degrees over ambient, but not near as bad as before.

TTT for AgRacer's Pics.

[This message has been edited by agracer (edited 6/4/2011 5:31p).]

Most of those gaps are at the ridge intersections where you are supposed to leave an opening for the heat to escape. It is definitely cooler in my attic now.

I used maybe 1 1/2 1000-sq.ft. rolls vs the 2700 sq.ft. I was quoted for installation.

Curious did you use a step ladder in the attic to install foil? Did you add any insulation or only attic foil?
Looks good!

Yes, a step latter was all I needed but in some places I had to stand on the latter and a support brace to reach. Not easy.

Did not add insulation. I need to seal all my lights next then add insulation where I mashed it all down walking everywhere.

Agrace - any chance you'd be willing to sell me the foil that you didn't use? I need to estimate the coverge I will need but it looks like you have plenty surplus...

I'm going to be putting the excess into my detached garage. It get hotter than hell in there in the summer and I can't stand it b/c I freqently do work out there. That and I can't get my wife to leave the door open a crack b/c - ya know - it's a lot of WORK to watch the door and press the button one more time from INSIDE the house.

I did the same to my detached (unfinished) garage. With about 12 soffits and 1 turbine, it still stays at or below ambient temp, even during the hottest part of the day.

Went into the attic to adjust some dampers on the AC systems. It seemed cooler in there than outside at 4:30 PM yesterday afternoon.

Total KWH from June 2010 to June 2011 actually increased ~100kwh. (note that for May 2010 vs 2011 it decreased ~120kwh total and I only had the foil up for part of the month).

This did not suprise me a whole lot considering it has been much hotter than average for Houston (several record days) and we've had virtually no rain this month.

My upstairs unit has been running ~ 12 hrs/day this month. On the one day we saw rain/cloudiness last month it ran for ~4-hours.

Hopefully July will be more "normal" and I'll have a better comparison.

My attic is still pretty cool compared to previous years and the upstairs definitely feels cooler.

I think on some of the other threads people have noted improved electical consumption vs. previous months where the weather was more 'normal'.

Well July was certainly not "normal" at all and we had, what maybe 1-day of some rain.

Electric bill was higher as well but I don't recall by how much (maybe 1-200kwh).

Even on the 100+ days the Attic is a bearable temperature.