Our house is around 4 years old, we bought it last year. The can lights in our kitchen have been burning out more quickly than we thought was normal. After remembering something our inspector said and checking our report, I realized we never cleaned off the insulation like he recommended. (Yes, stupid...we've been here about 7 months and just totally forgot about that one).

They didn't install a box around the metal recesses of the can lights before putting the insulation in, so insulation is just sitting on the metal part which is a fire hazard worst of all, but I think it's overheating the lights and making them burn out faster.

So my questions...what's the best way to take care of it? Should we just clear off the insulation (I'm not sure what kind it is, I know it's not the foam spray in kind for sure). Should we install one of those boxes to go around the can recess? If we do that, should we cover that box with some more insulation?

Thanks for the help!

eta 5/30: Added new post to bottom, installed CFLs and they burned out too.

[This message has been edited by rachag03 (edited 5/30/2010 8:45a).]

I made small boxes -about 8" x 8" by the length of your canned light out of sheetrock.
then poked a hole for the wires to come in and out. The sheetrock does not seal completely and lets out enough heat to cool off.

I have small halogen lights that get quite hot and the only reason I used them in my remodel was because they were discounted.

They are the do not cover with insulation kind and so far have not had any trouble.

I blew in the insulation once I was complete.

Hope this helps

Took me about an hour to make 8 boxes

They make can light housings that are designed to go into insulated spaces without creating a giant hole in your insulation barrier. They're maybe $10 or $20. Replacing the housings is the cheap part, the exterior trim is the expensive part... I'd just get new housings. Building your own boxes and trying to ventilate/insulate them is just a headache waiting to happen.

Thanks for the info guys! The husband is going to head up in the attic and take a closer look this weekend when he gets over whatever nasty cold he's fighting. And then I'll get him to replace all 4 lights in the kitchen since we are down to three. I'll tell him what yall said

You can also make a little cylinder tube and put that around them. That way the top is open to allow cooling.

A lot of cans come with the lights originally set very high in the can. You can also lower the socket so the bulb protrudes 1/4" or 1/2" into the room. This will not only get better airflow around the bulb but also let the light spread out better in the room.

Hmmm...lowering the socket sounds like something we might screw up. LOL. Unfortunately we are not the most home improvement inclined people, but we're trying!

I know these already have some kind of metal cylinder around them with tags that clearly say "do not put insulation here" which were totally ignored.

I'll give the husband all of this info. Thank you to all of you guys

First, are your lights “burning out” or “cutting off”? There is a temperature sensor that turns off the lights if the temperature gets too high.

Second, if you have IC lighting (insulation contact) you can have insulation piled up on your lights. If an IC light is burning out, it is not the insulation.

Most likely, it sounds like you have non-IC lighting. If that is the case, insulation will build up heat, but only if you are using incandescent lighting. The problem with moving all the insulation is that you allow free airflow from the house to the attic through the fixture vents. Most good “covers’ for non- IC lights will have venting and the subsequent heat/ac loss from your interior.

Smart electrical engineers have told me that if your light has a total wattage of 20 or less that you can pile on insulation, as there cannot be sufficient heat build up to start a fire or to trip the temperature sensor on the lights. You can get an 80 watt equivalent CFL that has the heat signature of a 20 watt incandescent. We went to a compact fluorescent R40 can light. I piled on 24 inches of insulation and have not had an issue. My friend (who is an EE) did the same with no problems. We got the Phillips from Home Depot for our brighter lights (80/20) and Neptun brand from 1000lightbulbs.com for the lower wattage lights (60/15). We did higher wattage in bedrooms, bathrooms, and the kitchen and the lower wattage for hallways. I would consult with your own Electrical Engineer to verify these conclusions. You can also measure your temperature in your fixtures with a laser thermometer.

If you use dimmable lights there is a good chance you will need new dimmer switches – I don’t know exactly why, but there is apparently more sophisticated electronics in dimmers with dimmers built in the past year. We had a 2 year old $40 dimmer in our bedroom that would not work with the CFLs but bought a new $12 dimmer that works perfectly.

The negatives – dimmable CFLs do not dim as low as an incandescent light. Also, the CFL will take about 10 seconds to “warm up” and get to a good lighting level. The bulbs also cost around 12 dollars for a dimmable. However, our electric bill was $80 less per month when we went to all CFLs on our 39 recessed lights. I am figuring a one year payout for the bulbs just in energy usage for the bulbs - not including heat and air loss to the attic. I am interested in seeing the electric bill in the summer with the AC on with an extra 24 inches of insulation over the lights.


[This message has been edited by GaryClare (edited 2/27/2010 8:51a).]

Btw, lowering the socket is very easy. There is a fly nut in the fixture that loosens and allows you to lower the socket in the fixture. If you look in your fixture, it would literally take you 10 seconds to figure out how to lower it.

I should also mention that you need to immediately remove the insulation from around your lights if they are non-IC. If they do not clearly state they are IC on the housing, you need to assume they are non-IC. If you have vents in the casing, they are definitely non-IC. It is a non-issue until your temperature sensors fail and your lights do not turn off. If or when they fail, subsequent heat build up can cause a fire.

quote:

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If you use dimmable lights there is a good chance you will need new dimmer switches – I don’t know exactly why, but there is apparently more sophisticated electronics in dimmers with dimmers built in the past year. We had a 2 year old $40 dimmer in our bedroom that would not work with the CFLs but bought a new $12 dimmer that works perfectly.

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I recently discovered that if you install at least 1 incandescent bulb in the circuit with the CFL bulbs, the $40 2-way dimmer switches will work. Not sure why, but I have proven this in 2 different circuits and it made no difference which position within the circuit the incandescent bulb was installed.

[This message has been edited by Gary79Ag (edited 2/28/2010 2:17p).]

I made little cages out of chicken wire and put them around y can lights to keep the insulation off of them. Works like a champ and cost me all of about $4.

It's non-IC I'm 99% sure. There is a label on the can in the attic that says "do not place insulation within 3 inches." The lights are actually burning out, not just switching off.

When we had the house inspected the inspector told us to switch out the incandescent ones for CFLs so we didn't have to mess with the insulation, but the first time we went to do that my husband busted one all over the kitchen and it was freaking Haz-mat for a whole day trying to get that crap cleaned up. I'm as green as they come, but I hate CFL lights.

Maybe I need to suck it up and put them in the kitchen, though.

[This message has been edited by rachag03 (edited 3/2/2010 8:51a).]

Here is the pic from our inspection report if that helps...

yup....thats no bueno.

I know, LOL. Idiots. The builder did a few dumb things with this house. Nothing terrible, but just things like that...putting insulation on something that clearly says "don't put insulation here."

Okay, one last question...we got up in the attic and there were only three out of like 8 that we could access. Most of them are under the part that is built up around the heater/ac. I don't know exactly how to describe it, it's just higher right there and there isn't any way to get under it where the lights are.

So if we switch them all to CF bulbs would that be okay? I have no way of telling if insulation is touching those ones under the built up part. I do remember my husband said the inspector told him to just switch everything out for CF, I just resisted because I hate them.

I've switched to all CFL's in my kitchen. At first I'd thought I'd hate the "warm up" time, but it's actually pretty nice first thing in the morning.

I'll tell you I'm not a big fan of CFL's but.....you can find bulbs today at a reasonable price that have:

-instant on
-warm, medium or cool color
-small ballasts that fit in most bases
-don't hum

You have to read the package and understand the ratings but they are out there.

Really it's not at all the actual light I don't like, it's the fact that when you break one it's such a huge freaking ordeal to clean up. I'm slightly neurotic when it comes to having a "green" home and no chemicals around the kids...so when we broke that one and mercury dust went everywhere I freaked the heck out and vowed to never use them again.

Like I said, it looks like it's time for me to suck it up. I asked my husband to take them out of the packaging in the garage...that's how we broke the last one, getting it out of the hard plastic packaging.

Oh and yes, I know it's ironic that I try to live green but hate CFLs.

Let’s see if I’ve got this right. We are to buy fluorescent bulbs because they use less electricity. The same bulbs that are made in Communist China, sent on an air and water polluting ship to a US port where they are trucked to an Intermodel in an air polluting truck, transferred to another air polluting truck & sent to a distribution center. From there they are again trucked to a retail/wholesale store. They cost 3-4 times what US made, 100% recycleable incandescent bulbs cost and there is still the haz mat disposal fee. All this for a few cents of electricity? What am I missing here?

Alrighty, I'm bringing this post back up....shortly after this thread, we replaced all four lights with CFLs. This morning two of them didn't come on when I turned out the lights.

Not sure what that means other than it's probably time to call in a professional, right? Do I need to call an electrician? Like I mentioned above we can't access where those lights are...they are under the platform area where the AC system is in the attic.

[This message has been edited by rachag03 (edited 5/30/2010 8:47a).]

Okay, odd...one was back on yesterday afternoon, and now they are both back on this morning.

What's up with that? Is that normal for a CFL?

It's possible they overheated and tripped a temperature sensor.

While CFLs produce a lot less heat than incandescent bulbs, they make enough that if they are fully enclosed (especially in a fixture surrounded by insulation) they can cook themselves to death.

Go feel them after they've been on 20 minutes or so -- they will be warm, but neither the tubing nor the ballast (in the screw-in base) should be too hot to touch for 1/2 second. If they are excessively hot, you need to switch to a lower wattage or modify the fixture (perhaps just by getting insulation away from it).

Thanks! I'll get my husband to get up there and check if they are hot...I'm too short!

All four are working today. They didn't go out while they were on if that matters...they just don't turn back on sometimes after they have been off.