Crazy mofo

You're gonna balloon it with that Uniflex shaft

It's soft

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Crazy mofo

You're gonna balloon it with that Uniflex shaft

It's soft

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Oh no. I mean I'm going to pull the nippon out of the apex and then just swap it back after numbers. 10 minutes of gluing > 50$ one time use shaft

That's a 2002 Big Bertha with 12ish moi,.69 avcog - super low cog and MPF over 1000. Probably one of the most forgiving irons out there.

True club ho has extra shafts laying around.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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True club ho has extra shafts laying around.

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Oh I have extra shafts, but not a nippon 120s 6 iron shaft. That's too much even for me haha

See if you can find Nippon 850 FW. Unicorn shaft. U can pretty much use it in place of graphite in your FW and get low ass torque.

You may find a similar result or maybe not.

jj9000 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Crazy mofo

You're gonna balloon it with that Uniflex shaft

It's soft

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This is a silly debate...especially with the unwillingness to admit that iron technology has evolved from 1991 to 2021.

Also...using Maltby MPF as anything other than garbage biased numbers is a joke. Maltby is in the business of selling clubs, and ironically his irons generally have the highest MPF. I don't care enough to go dig out the model numbers, but, he had some iteration of a blade having a higher MPF than a GI club. Yeah...OK.

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About time for a textbook MPF is garbage response, because Maltby is in business to sell clubs and exaggerate his clubs with high MPF and there's a blade that has a higher MPF than a CB. Because other manufacturers aren't in business to sell clubs?

It's like when BMI is talked about, the fat asses always come out and say how flawed it is because they have high muscle mass.

Without knowing what clubs you're talking about, the GI iron with a lower MPF may have a low C-DIM and high AVCOG that makes it harder for a golfer to find the sweet spot compared to a blade with a higher C-DIM and lower AVCOG that allows to the golfer to hit the sweet spot easier. Just because a club has more perimeter weighing, it doesn't mean it will be easier to hit..especially a large shovel with high AVCOG as the golf ball is the same size and the center of the ball sits 0.84 inches off the ground and the COG is above it.

What data points of MPF do you find it to be garbage with no use?

As far as the iron technology evolution, what aspect of this technology are you talking about? COG? Larger Sweet Spot? Metallurgy? And how does this change in the ballflight (higher and longer) actually help improve lower your handicap?

AggieDruggist89 said:

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oldschool87 said:

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I upgraded this year from 1996...

Go swing Mizuno JPX 921...


JPX921 Forged

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Why... and what should I expect?

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Age 56
HC 4
Trails GC, Frisco

Every swing is different

Played blades since I was 10. Played Nicklaus V-foils for last 25 years. Felt like I rolled out of bed 3 years ago and lost 15yards... having to hit 7 iron instead of 8 or 9, kind of frustrated.

Went to a demo day with the thought of getting the Titleist t100/200's or the Taylor made blades P790's/ was leaving with one of those.

Eliminated the Titleist immediately, felt terrible, did not work for me at all, any of the titleist. Hit the 790's very good, was really about ready to leave, swung a number of other clubs, but that was my focus.

Guy came back and said swing this, and handed me the 921... Butter.... and the ball exploded off the club. must have hit 200 balls that day. Had already hit a ton, then just kept going back and forth between the 790 and the 921.

Remember I wanted to leave with the 790, walked out with the Mizuno's. and they were more expensive... so it was not a money play.

The 921's are made like a blade, they are forged. But a lot of the weight is at the bottom. They are also Hot, hot!!!! Every body is hiding the fact that they are tweaking there clubs a degree. Not Mizuno, they flat out tell you, its easier to hit a 6 7 8 or 9 iron, so why not make that club go further. They are 3 to 4 degrees hot. So, your 8 iron 921 is really a 7 iron, my 7 921 is really a 6iron in my old set, and so forth. So much so, that they give you a gap wedge to make up the gap from your wedge which I believe is 44 degrees... to help you get to your sandwedge.

I absolutely love them. And that gap wedge has quickly become one of my favorite clubs in my bag, it is deadly!

I can swing easy, the weight at the bottom gets it in the air, the forged still allows me to feel and work the ball.

Again, everyone is different. I am not telling you to buy the clubs. I would tell you to swing them. If you don't you would be doing yourself a disservice...

I understand and thank you for the reply.

How about

Age 54
Index 2

and I too play a set of Mizunos with almost identical spec as yours, 50 Deg GW and 45 Deg PW. I'm deadly with those irons. Granted it's a 1999 Mizuno T-Zoid Sure... like a shovel and I believe the characteristics of your irons and mine are similar. I too have JPX-EZ heads just laying around and I can put them on my shaft and also get almost identical ball flights.

But your V-foil... Man, it was time!

Great move!

As a previous MP-33 owner, I can tell you it was buttery and easy to get the ball in the air, when I catch it. All due to fairly low COG in 0.7s.

But looking at the MPF chart, MPF for JPX850 vs MP32 is 399 : 412. splitting hair.

JPX probably is better with dispersion (higher MOI) but I bet MP32 is easier to get up in the air due to a lower COG. What penalized JPX is the very high AVCOG of 0.86. Basically, a good player has to hood the club with a pretty good shaft lean at impact to get the sweet spot under the ball. And that's probably why the MPF is fairly low. But you'd never argue that JPX850 forged is more playable than an iron with MPF over 1000.

But to completely disregard MPF for the reason above isn't something I would do.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Lolol almost done. Didn't buy the spare shaft so I have to collect data over a couple days and I'm having my neighbor hit as well. That way we have two separate golfers.

This thread has more fake news than if Fox News and CNN had a lovechild.

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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This thread has more fake news than if Fox News and CNN had a lovechild.

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And this being the biggest one

Ok here's my data. Disclaimer I did remove a few shots that were obvious bad swings. There were only a handful, and across both clubs. A couple mega thin rockets, and a couple short fatties.



Top is Apex. Admittedly, these are fit to exactly what I'm trying to do, so I'm not surprised by the numbers. It was a little cold, so the totals are down a hair. Key takeaways for me are similar club speed, but slightly more ball speed, slightly higher launch, with similar spin gave me less roll, and slightly more total yardage.

The numbers are closer than I thought they would be, but definitely still in the realm of what I would say I was trying to accomplish. I don't know how the sim calculates roll, but it seems over inflated for both clubs. Normally, a well stuck 6 iron for me is not rolling 22 feet. I had a few misses right with both clubs, and one left with the bertha. There is absolutely no way I could ever play something with so much offset. It took a bunch of strokes to get used to aligning that thing to square.

Overall, fun test, but I stand by my original point. Go get fit to the head and shaft you can get the data to match for. I will add that if you have access to a bunch of heads and shafts from 2004, they also may fit, odds are you don't.



edit to add, I was going to include my neighbors data, but it was wildly inconsistent. He's closer to a 20 than 10, and throwing a bunch of new clubs in his hands did not work out.

Pretty awesome TEST!!!!

Well done!!

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Pretty awesome TEST!!!!

Well done!!

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Thanks for the challenge. Always good to tinker, and especially when the sun is down after lunch hahaha

Yes indeed. We tinker a lot but slow to change. We continue to tinker and I almost swapped to PXG recently but then I would've had to redial gaps and distance. And I just don't want to do that right now.

But yes I will continue to tinker and I respect your moxie and willingness to give it a try instead of shutting it down.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Yes indeed. We tinker a lot but slow to change. We continue to tinker and I almost swapped to PXG recently but then I would've had to redial gaps and distance. And I just don't want to do that right now.

But yes I will continue to tinker and I respect your moxie and willingness to give it a try instead of shutting it down.

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For sure. I love the data (started a recruiting website based on analytics only), and definitely know some of the traps you talked about. I play a gap wedge and 3 iron with my set and only have room for a 3wood, 56, 60. It's working well though. I like the gap wedge for chips, and I can't find a 5wood or hybrid that I like more than my 3 iron.

khaos288 said:

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I can't find a 5wood or hybrid that I like more than my 3 iron.

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I challenge you to try..2001...

J/k

AggieDruggist89 said:

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khaos288 said:

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I can't find a 5wood or hybrid that I like more than my 3 iron.

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I challenge you to try..2001...

J/k

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I literally laughed out loud. Unfortunately, my 3 iron is well practiced. I play on a course with two ~600 yard par 5s and 2 ~500 yard par 4s

You clearly dont think new clubs are better. So why not step back and replace your 90's clubs with a set of hickory's from the 40's?

tandy miller said:

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You clearly dont think new clubs are better. So why not step back and replace your 90's clubs with a set of hickory's from the 40's?

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I would but they didn't have perimeter weighted irons nor right frequency and torqued hickory shaft.

My iron head is 1999 model and the LW is from the 80s...in fact USGA and R&A deemed this LW illegal for professional competitions due to unfair advantage over new wedges.

Again, go ahead and tell me what about the new technology in irons that makes it better today vs 5 years ago or 20-30 years ago? Don't want to sound like a broken record... Except Khaos who actually did a head to head test.

Really... What magical technology in New irons that will now suddenly improve your game??

I'm not anti technology as my shafts are fairly new and my driver is Ping G-max. And I use a super high MOI putter.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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tandy miller said:

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You clearly dont think new clubs are better. So why not step back and replace your 90's clubs with a set of hickory's from the 40's?

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I would but they didn't have perimeter weighted irons nor right frequency and torqued hickory shaft.

My iron head is 1999 model and the LW is from the 80s...in fact USGA and R&A deemed this LW illegal for professional competitions due to unfair advantage over new wedges.

Again, go ahead and tell me what about the new technology in irons that makes it better today vs 5 years ago or 20-30 years ago? Don't want to sound like a broken record... Except Khaos who actually did a head to head test.

Really... What magical technology in New irons that will now suddenly improve your game??

I'm not anti technology as my shafts are fairly new and my driver is Ping G-max. And I use a super high MOI putter.

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Oh one more thing I was going to mention. The Bertha has a very flat sole, and we did see more digs with that club compared to the modern rounded sole.

Not a ton of data there, but saw it some.

Yup, that is true. I always felt X- series was better than berthas. More rounded sole.

Was going to mention, when I test, I set the sim at sea level soft condition. Because we are more interested in the ball flight and not roll.

And to mess with buddies, sometimes we set the sim at super high altitude, dry condition and tail wind.... Talk about hitting bombs.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Yup, that is true. I always felt X- series was better than berthas. More rounded sole.

Was going to mention, when I test, I set the sim at sea level soft condition. Because we are more interested in the ball flight and not roll.

And to mess with buddies, sometimes we set the sim at super high altitude, dry condition and tail wind.... Talk about hitting bombs.

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I need to set to soft. Definitely got more roll than I normally do

I'm in this boat myself. Itching for something new. Current irons are forged cavities from early 2000s. Tried some modern Hogan hollow forged irons with traditional lofts. Didn't get to test on a monitor but played them side by side on the course a little. Definitely a little longer and maybe more forgiving. Different shafts and 1/2" shorter than mine so hard to say.

I definitely WANT them but it's hard to justify since I don't think they'll really impact my game that much. They have a different sole shape and I definitely liked the turf interaction better than mine. So there's that.

One comment on here I don't understand is the talk of rolling up on greens. I'm mid 90s golfer and I don't have this problem with any iron except maybe a 3. Just this weekend I wasn't striking the ball all that well, but hit three different greens with 4 and 5 iron. Neither rolled out more than 8 feet. 7 on down never roll out more than a couple feet unless I blade them

How are you a mid 90s golfer that can hold a green with a 4 iron?

That's very rare. Are you losing a lot of balls off the tee, or just struggling with short game/putting?

I dunno man. When a shot is struck good it's good. When it's struck bad it's real bad. I do think I'm close to breaking through, but don't we all think that? Lately it's been something different every time. Had a couple bad driving days recently.

Then this weekend I had the SHANKS, but somehow just with short irons. 7 on down went nowhere but SIDEWAYS. Started immediately on the range and could not figure it out. Frustrating because I had resolved to have a much better course management day, and play with less ego, then bang. Nothing worked.

'03ag said:

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One comment on here I don't understand is the talk of rolling up on greens. I'm mid 90s golfer and I don't have this problem with any iron except maybe a 3. Just this weekend I wasn't striking the ball all that well, but hit three different greens with 4 and 5 iron. Neither rolled out more than 8 feet. 7 on down never roll out more than a couple feet unless I blade them

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This really depends. Most of the greens we play out here in CA will hold any shot with a decent trajectory because greens are soft. I can see some hard pan west Texas type of golf courses or courses with hard greens that may require a 130ft apex for the greens to hold. My course in Virginia was like that where I had to account for the roll on the green.

But that's really not the case for most courses we play. And you certainly aren't playing US open prepped courses.

I pretty much only play Fort Worth munis