For 35 years I subscribed to starting the down swing with clearing of the hip. Came across a lengthy seminar by Manuel De La Torre who said don't shift weight during backswing and no need to clear the hip in down swing. If down swing is made with arms (not hands or forearms), weight shift and hip clearing will occur.

Disciple of Ernest Jones.

Tried it. Holy crap.

I've never hit the ball better.

What say you?

Case in point. PGA average driver swing speed is 115mph. LPGA is 95mph. Average hip speed in LPGA is higher than PGA.

Hard to imagine generating much power if the weight never shifts to the back.

I currently don't transfer much weight back. I could never get the sync right for good contact + power. It doesn't hurt that I don't really need more distance

Sooper Jeenyus said:

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Hard to imagine generating much power if the weight never shifts to the back.

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Weight will shift if you bring the club to the top position. The point is, the weight shift should not be the source of the initiation of the swing or done purposely. It's the result of having made the correct backswing.

Same applies to the forward swing. Weight shifts to the left as a reaction to having made the forward swing to a full follow through.

Also, if you stack and tilt and keep 90% of the weight on the forward foot, you can still hit just as far with no weight shift.

This is one of the videos in the series. Yes very long.

It's been well documented that something like 90 percent of club head speed is arms and only 10 or so is hips.
Hogan 5 lesson is a good book but the whole starting the downswing with that lower body thing is over done and leads many to playing stuck golf, myself included for many years.

It's much easier to swing if you allow the arms to feel like drive the pivot. The lower body will still start first but you'll speed up your arms and have a lot of freedom to swing and not get stuck.

Forum Troll said:

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It's been well documented that something like 90 percent of club head speed is arms and only 10 or so is hips.
Hogan 5 lesson is a good book but the whole starting the downswing with that lower body thing is over done and leads many to playing stuck golf, myself included for many years.

It's much easier to swing if you allow the arms to feel like drive the pivot. The lower body will still start first but you'll speed up your arms and have a lot of freedom to swing and not get stuck.

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Yes Sir!

Modern teaching of lower body initiating the downswing while arms simply follow the turning of the hip and torso may be flawed. Sure, that's what it looks like in slow motion video but it's the reaction of the arm swing.

This guy also talks about it.

It always amazes me how people can be so mechanical with their swing (not saying this is bad). I have no idea what the mechanics of my swing are. I'm all about feel. I couldn't tell you what I do as far as arms, weight shift, etc. I just swing how I know to swing.

I am about to start working with someone to try to develop a more consistent setup and swing so I have some sort of mechanical thought process to fall back on, but I'm not sure how that's going to work for me after freewheeling it for so long.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Forum Troll said:

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It's been well documented that something like 90 percent of club head speed is arms and only 10 or so is hips.
Hogan 5 lesson is a good book but the whole starting the downswing with that lower body thing is over done and leads many to playing stuck golf, myself included for many years.

It's much easier to swing if you allow the arms to feel like drive the pivot. The lower body will still start first but you'll speed up your arms and have a lot of freedom to swing and not get stuck.

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Yes Sir!

Modern teaching of lower body initiating the downswing while arms simply follow the turning of the hip and torso may be flawed. Sure, that's what it looks like in slow motion video but it's the reaction of the arm swing.

This guy also talks about it.

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I watch all of Monte's stuff - he has a way of saying things that just makes sense to me and I've had some good success attempting some of his drills.

Lots of good YouTube content.

My golf instructor is having me develop the feel to start my back swing with my right hip and my downswing with my left hip.

I know feels vary from person-to-person, but when I started taking lessons with him, I had a very steep over-the-top swing with very little actual rotation or weight transfer. It was mostly arm/shoulder movement. Currently, I feel like I contact the ball best when my hands and arms don't consciously do anything except maintain consistent pressure on the club - they just respond to the energy initiated by other parts of the body.

I'm not saying my approach is better or worse, I'm just sharing what my coach is having me work on.

jonj101 said:

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My golf instructor is having me develop the feel to start my back swing with my right hip and my downswing with my left hip.

I know feels vary from person-to-person, but when I started taking lessons with him, I had a very steep over-the-top swing with very little actual rotation or weight transfer. It was mostly arm/shoulder movement. Currently, I feel like I contact the ball best when my hands and arms don't consciously do anything except maintain consistent pressure on the club - they just respond to the energy initiated by other parts of the body.

I'm not saying my approach is better or worse, I'm just sharing what my coach is having me work on.

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Certain movements come natural to some while other movements come natural to others. Everyone is different which is why you have to be careful with "generic" advise or concepts.

Some might say it feels like their arms are just going along for the ride, even though in reality they are still applying significant force with their arms (whether they "feel" like they are or not). It's just that the swinging of their arms happens naturally in sequence without conscious thought But for someone who is more naturally passive with the arms, the result of trying to let their arms feel like they go along for the ride would likely produce an undesirable result.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Sooper Jeenyus said:

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Hard to imagine generating much power if the weight never shifts to the back.

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Weight will shift if you bring the club to the top position. The point is, the weight shift should not be the source of the initiation of the swing or done purposely. It's the result of having made the correct backswing.

Same applies to the forward swing. Weight shifts to the left as a reaction to having made the forward swing to a full follow through.

Also, if you stack and tilt and keep 90% of the weight on the forward foot, you can still hit just as far with no weight shift.

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Weight will shift =/= don't shift weight.

If it works for you, great. Game is hard enough; do what's best for yours...

As for the bold part, I'd like to see that tested on a weight pad. Again, if it works for you, great. Don't think that strategy will jive with my swing.

Ezra Brooks said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Forum Troll said:

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It's been well documented that something like 90 percent of club head speed is arms and only 10 or so is hips.
Hogan 5 lesson is a good book but the whole starting the downswing with that lower body thing is over done and leads many to playing stuck golf, myself included for many years.

It's much easier to swing if you allow the arms to feel like drive the pivot. The lower body will still start first but you'll speed up your arms and have a lot of freedom to swing and not get stuck.

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Yes Sir!

Modern teaching of lower body initiating the downswing while arms simply follow the turning of the hip and torso may be flawed. Sure, that's what it looks like in slow motion video but it's the reaction of the arm swing.

This guy also talks about it.

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I watch all of Monte's stuff - he has a way of saying things that just makes sense to me and I've had some good success attempting some of his drills.

Lots of good YouTube content.

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This is a good video. My favorite from him is the No Turn Cast Drill. It sound heretical but its genius (purposely tyrying to cast waaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?). For people who need to get rid of arm overun in backswing and/or slow arms/stuck/too active lower bodies (this is me), its one of the best pieces of advice for a golf swing.

Most of his videos are related to 4 or 5 common major swing faults, but with many different ways/feels to solve them.