khaos288 said:

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this is my thought. Unless you really have a chunk rate of like 50%, how can you possibly hit more greens from double the distance.

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Chunk rate isn't 50%, but between my distance control on partial swing wedges, chunks and blades, I am better from 120-150.

I just don't practice wedges enough. I understand it doesn't make logical sense, but not practicing isn't really logical either.

gman-79 said:

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Red Tees are almost always ladies tees.

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I have found zero standardization for tee box colors.

At my Club .... Black, Blue, White, Green, Gold (Ladies).
At the nearby Muni .... Black, Red, Green, White, Something (Ladies).
At the nearby Base .... Black, Blue, White, Red, Yellow (Ladies).

Quote:

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If I'm within 50 yards, I'm trying to be within 20 feet of the pin.

If I'm at 125 yards, I'm hoping to hit the green

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Well stated sir!

I played 7 courses in 7 days last week and the variation in color was great. I will say about half had red as the forward tees.

Agree. The "I'd rather be at 100 than 50" is very much a psychological preference. And it's a preference that will hurt one's score in the long run if they manage their game that way.

Me? I'm a textbook bomb and gouge guy. Pretty much always going for closer, unless obstacles/trouble just dictates hanging back. I never hang back just because I prefer a longer yardage.

As far as the question in the OP is concerned, I'm mostly a one-up guy if there are 4+ tees. If there are 3 (used to be a lot more common back in the day, more rare now), I will play the tips. I drive the ball well - consistent 270-280, but for the most part, I just don't enjoy the round as much from close to or over 7000 yards.

jgh85Ag said:

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I played 7 courses in 7 days last week and the variation in color was great. I will say about half had red as the forward tees.

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And how did you play from those tees? Pretty good?

I did not tee off from the forward tees, thank you very much. I noticed them after hitting my second shot.

Trinity Ag said:

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khaos288 said:

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Also being better from 120-160 than 60-90 is not a good thing

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It is not a good thing, but it is not far off for my game.

The issue is that I tend to have more catastrophically bad shots from 60-90 than I do from 100-150.

I may miss left or right with a 8-P, but I very rarely chunk it severely.

From 60-80, though, my chunk rate is probably 20-30%. And at Traditions, that is invariably into the hard guarding every freaking green.

So my scoring average from 100+ is better than from 60-90, because it includes fewer double bogies.

But I am practicing more with my wedges to fix this.

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This is me, especially early on in the season when the fairway lies are tight and I am still shaking some rust off. Much less of an issue when they fill in though. If I'm playing/practicing a lot, tight lies aren't really an issue anymore.

All in the freaking head.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Agree. The "I'd rather be at 100 than 50" is very much a psychological preference. And it's a preference that will hurt one's score in the long run if they manage their game that way.

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I have often heard that pros would much rather have a full wedge shot than a 60-70 yarder, is this not the case? Sorry if stupid question, but always made me feel better when I chunk a 70 yard shot 30 yards.

khaos288 said:

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this is my thought. Unless you really have a chunk rate of like 50%, how can you possibly hit more greens from double the distance.

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I may be speaking for myself, and someone may have mentioned this but I have a very good idea almost exactly how far a full sand/gap/PW/9 iron shot is going to with a full swing. With a 60-70 yarder, I have to practice all the time to be somewhat dialed in and there's still so much margin for error as it is entirely a feel shot.

I have never owned a lob wedge though, maybe I need to get one so I am taking full shots instead of trying to finesse a sand wedge.

Depends who I'm with. I'm 30 and with my normal group I play with of other late 20s/early 30s we play tips. When with my Dad I play one or two up. I've always found it easier and more cohesive to have everyone play the same tees

Usually the ones in front of tips. If it's a course I play a lot and know well it's the tips. I'm a true 270-300 off the tees scoring 77-87. Usually end up hitting 3 iron off most tees if playing the one in front of the tips as I usually get in more trouble with hazards closer to the green. I have played the shortest men's tees with my dad's group a few times it's just not fun.

I agree. I don't mind playing really short courses. I played Balcones in Austin last week and it is only 6200 yards and like it just fine. But I don't like making courses shorter than I can play them. I don't play the tips much anymore but would if the guys I play with would. I think its because I just like hitting my driver and it makes the shots more interesting and more important. Nothing more fun than piping your driver.

Now I don't go out to 7500 yards or anything. But 7000-7200 is a good number .

Boo Weekley said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Agree. The "I'd rather be at 100 than 50" is very much a psychological preference. And it's a preference that will hurt one's score in the long run if they manage their game that way.

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I have often heard that pros would much rather have a full wedge shot than a 60-70 yarder, is this not the case? Sorry if stupid question, but always made me feel better when I chunk a 70 yard shot 30 yards.

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The whole "lay up to a yardage" thing is real. They definitely dial in certain distances... However, they consider a number of different things when deciding what to do. Course management is critical for those guys... It's like 9 ball vs 8 ball in pool, trying to assess the best/most efficient way thru it.

Probably first and foremost, the pin placement determines the "proper" shot as far as where and how to layup. Other factors come in to play as well, like wind (tougher to spin the ball downwind vs into the wind shots can spin backwards). The slope/firmness of the greens, etc.

When possible, you don't want to handcuff yourself. For example... if you're downwind and there is a front pin that's cut tight over a bunker on a firm green that slopes away, it would make more sense to be 60-75 yards out and not 30-50 yards out where it's tougher to generate spin. The 30-50 yarder gives you less area to land the ball to get it close and would require bringing the bunker into play since the ball won't want to stop.

The opposite would be true for an into the wind, back pin on a soft green that slopes towards you. You wouldn't want to hit a real spinny shot only to have it land pin high and suck back to the middle. In that case, the 30-50 yard shot is easier and gives you more room to land the ball than a full lob wedge from 70-80 that would tend to have a ton of spin and no room behind the hole to land it.

End of the day though, on a standard type shot with light variables... the proximity is much closee on a 30 yard shot vs 100 yarder.

Not really. Somebody else is going to address it, but most pros do not lay up to a specific yardage. They try to get the ball as close to the green as they can unless there is a reason not too. Pretty sure it was Mark Calcavecchia and his coach that started that change. I know much more recently Charley Hoffman discussed it in a magazine article. He felt like he sucked from 50 yards compared to 100 yards. And he did compared to other pros, but his proximity to the hole was around 2 feet closer from 50. So even though he was statistically worse from 50 he was still better off. We had a pretty good discussion on here about this topic not too long ago but I don't see it on the first page.

Now, like I said, that's assuming everything else is equal. It rarely is. There could be a trap protecting the green and they need more distance to create more spin. Or there could be water or something that is also factoring in there decision.

Unless there is a good reason too, like too much risk for example, I never lay up to a yardage.

Distance always factors into your expectations. If one misses a 4 foot birdie putt and taps in a 2 incher for par, they don't feel the same as missing a 45 foot bird with a 3 foot par putt save on the same hole.

I used to try and play to either 100 or 150 on every hole. I always played to 100 if I could cover the distance and only 150 if not. I felt like I was much more consistent with better scoring doing so. But in reality, I was only meeting my lower expectations more often.

Exactly. And that was Hoffman's point. He hit better shots from 100 than he did from 50. But that didn't make them closer to the hole. Just executed better. He was closer to the hole from 50

I agree with you in principle as far as trying to get as close as possible when they can. But when they are forced to lay-up, they most certainly prefer certain yardages over others.

Exactly right.

According to Grint my handicap is right at 26 or so. This is NOT with honest scoring I have no problems with taking a mulligan on my all too frequent shanks. My drives are improving as I work through my slice problems and they range from 180-220 for the carry.

I have no problems playing from the front tees as I enjoy the game more and I'm just about always playing with my wife so it is just easier and more fun to tee from the same box. Now if/when I consistently don't slice and start getting a bit more distance or dropping into teens on my handicap then I will likely move back. I don't plan to play in tournaments any time soon either so why make a game that I already find very challenging even more so?

The game should be fun for you and all the others playing around you. Playing from tees that let you enjoy the round and play at a pace that lets others around you enjoy their round is all anyone can ask. Tee box selection is the one choice we can choose to positively or negatively impact pace of play. I don't mind hitting a three iron, but I enjoy my 4 iron that much better and every club less equally as much more...

My son is a pretty good HS golfer and his irons are at Ping right now to have longer, stiffer shafts installed. His bag right now is his woods and 50, 54 & 58 wedges. Yesterday he played from the women's tees so every approach shot was a wedge and I rode with him. It actually was pretty fun and he got some good work in from 115 and in.

Tiger used to recommend everyone play from forward tees with the hopes that you shoot much better scores so that you can "get used to going low"...

Yup