It has to be some right? Watching a 22 y/o female (Lexi Thompson) hit a smooth 8-iron 170 yards and regularly seeing the pros hit 220 yd 5-irons and 170 yd 9-irons...I just have a hard time believing it is all mechanics and manually de-lofting the club and "hitting the ball pure" every single time.

What is special about these guys' clubs? Surely they're just playing normal Titleist balls right and not some special souped up version created in a small lab right? Are their clubs de-lofted for added distance or something?

Ag_07 said:

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I don't think it's much.

I would guess it's 80% being an incredible golfer, 15% being expertly fit into their equipment, and 5% the equipment itself.

Can't you and I buy the same equipment they're playing? We may not be able to have it fit so perfectly or get the specs so tuned in, but I'm pretty sure I can go to Dick's and buy the same clubs they're hitting.

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Possibly, I guess I'm mostly just wondering if they are playing the factory Titleist, Srixon, Bridgestone balls available to you and me and if they do any equipment tweaking (i.e. de-lofting a 7-iron into a 6-iron) or anything. I guess I'm just blown away with how far they can hit their irons. Driver, not as much. Which makes me wonder even more if they are doing anything special with their irons beyond custom fitting?

There is some equipment and balls that are made for tour only. But you can buy most of the same equipment, go to a professional fitter or even have some connections with the major manus and have them tweak the clubs exactly like your favorite tour pro or tweak them to the perfect fit for you.

I do think the yardage numbers are a little inflated though.

And a 7 iron loft today isn't the same loft as it was 30 years ago, BUT the technology today is light years ahead of yesteryear.

Matsui said:

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And a 7 iron loft today isn't the same loft as it was 30 years ago, BUT the technology today is light years ahead of yesteryear.

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Yeah but enough to hit 7-iron 195-200 like the pros?

Also, some has to do with weather conditions. Downwind, downhill, etc.

What you have to realize is that their irons are set up for specific courses. All of their lofts are adjusted. So their 5 iron is really more like a strong 4 iron or 3 iron. Add in frequency matching and spinning, and yes they will hit the ball much farther than your average golfer.

Same thing with driver, except the PGA will have the course firm up the landing spots, that way they'll get a little more distance.

You'd be surprised at what a perfect swing and hitting the ball flush would do for distance.

I made just a few simple tweaks recently and went from hitting a fade/slice to hitting the ball straight or with a twinge of draw and that alone bumped me up 2 clubs. Made a huge difference in my distance.

An overwhelming majority of it has to do with their swings. They're hitting it so pure with so much spin and compression it's incredible.

If you are comparing to today's average golfer, then equipment is very little. But if comparing to pros to say Hogan, Sneed, etc, then probably a whole lot.

I think it has been proven that hitting the sweet spot at lower clubhead speed will always out perform lots of club head speed and off center hits. I think this has a lot to do with it.

I don't believe people "de-loft" their clubs intentionally so they can chest-thump hitting irons long distances. They're professionals - They are in the .0001% of golfers...they have no need to do this.

The also are technically/mechanically sound without any wasted effort in their swing. Even the slightest bit of grip pressure over/under what is optimal will have negative effects. Compound a lot of little things like this and you get a swing with some inefficiencies in it and that reduces performance.

I tell my buddies all the time... The first key to distance is not swinging hard. They can swing as hard as they want but if they're not hitting it square and I easy swing and make perfect contact most of the time mine will be further. Hitting the ball solid goes a really long ways and is way under rated.

So to your point yes equipment matters for pro's distance but that is only because they are maximizing the potential of the club by hitting it solid. It is similar to saying Usain Bolt's Nikes make him faster. Duh but his ability makes him able to get the absolute most out of his equipment.

Usain Bolt doesn't wear Nike

They do not tweak their clubs lofts from week to week. Totally disagree. They do have their clubs checked each week to make sure the specs haven't changed during the course of play or practice or travel. Their irons are dialed in to distances

But I do agree it's mostly pure contact.

Equipment is not much at all when u compare what we have vs what they have....a few yards here and there. I have friends that play professionally and grew up playing with, at the time, a top 25 player in the world.

Sometimes a ball will give them a few extra yards...sometimes they play the normal stuff and hit it further. I forget the year model but a lot of tour guys really like the pro v1 from like 2011 and they played that.

They hit the ball further because they make good contact and their swings are efficient. Zero or little wasted movement or effort.

I will go as far to say I know for a fact they dont change their clubs from week to week. You will see clubs dropped out and picked up based on certain carry distances like 2 or 3 iron or 5 woods exchanged.

Wedges are different story. Different bounce for different grass and different firmness of course is very believable but not everyone does that either.

Surprised no one has mentioned club head speed yet. Isn't club head speed the key ingredient in distance. I would say if your club head speed is the same as a professionals and they still hit it 30 yards further, then yes, its the equipment. I bet, if you checked, your club head speed is lower and that is because their swings are perfectly timed.

I don't buy the hitting it solid (or square or flush or whatever you want to call it) argument because even an average golfer hits it flush every once in a while; and when they do, it still doesn't go anywhere near as far as the pros.

Club head speed is one of many factors. Hitting it solid on the face is a factor too. Angle of attack works with both of these along with the position of your hands.

It's not so much the degree of the club but the launch angle the ball takes off on coupled with spin rate.

Swing path+ swing plane+ club head speed+ spin rate

There's a lot more that generate all those things but those 4 will dictate distance, shape, height, spin rate

sellthefarm said:

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Surprised no one has mentioned club head speed yet. Isn't club head speed the key ingredient in distance. I would say if your club head speed is the same as a professionals and they still hit it 30 yards further, then yes, its the equipment. I bet, if you checked, your club head speed is lower and that is because their swings are perfectly timed.

I don't buy the hitting it solid (or square or flush or whatever you want to call it) argument because even an average golfer hits it flush every once in a while; and when they do, it still doesn't go anywhere near as far as the pros.

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If you don't buy it then continue swinging hard and hitting it off the heal of your club. You'll get there...

I don't believe I said you will hit it as far as the pros.... If that is what you are trying to do, sell your clubs.. I was answering a question on a golf forum for your average weekend hacker... I didn't know we were all pros here... I was saying that connecting the dots on your swing path to make solid contact with the ball will get you optimal distance... A driver has a sweet spot and a golf ball has a core. Both of these things react a certain way depending on how they're hit.

Club head speed is a factor, arm speed isn't. Waisted movement is waisted energy. Many factors in golf ball distance, but pro golfers swing speed (club head speed) is faster then most amateur golfers, pros have better club head impact position (ball compression), body position to transfer the built up energy, and they also hit the ball in the sweet spot of the club head.

tlfw378 said:

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Club head speed is a factor, arm speed isn't. Waisted movement is waisted energy. Many factors in golf ball distance, but pro golfers swing speed (club head speed) is faster then most amateur golfers, pros have better club head impact position (ball compression), body position to transfer the built up energy, and they also hit the ball in the sweet spot of the club head.

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Good point. Wouldn't be surprised if several of us on here had greater arm speed and significantly less distance than more than a handful of tour players.

first I have ever heard the term "arm speed".

You have to figure out how to get the clubhead speed at its peak, right when contact is made. That's the key.

Your hands and arms are not moving at their peak speed right at impact, but rather just before it. You have to get that energy transferred from your body coil, rotation downward through to the club head. So your hands are moving at their "peak speed" just before impact and energy is then transferred down the shaft to the club head at impact.

This is certainly all happening in a matter of nano-seconds, but thinking about it this way will help you in maximizing your clubhead speed without getting out of control and just trying to have "fast arms".

I think the advantage you're looking for is the equipment trucks and their ability to tweak a club within minutes to fit a pro's liking. If Phil is drawing the ball a bit much this week he can go into the truck and have them put a little lead in the heel to help that. If he doesn't want his wedges to dig as much the next week he can go in and have them ground a bit. This certainly doesn't happen all the time but if you google titleist, or taylormade equipment truck you can find videos of these guys performing this exact action.

With all of that said, these guys are the best of the best. They swing very fast(avg 113mph) and hit the center of the club nearly every time. They're also, for the most part playing fast courses. The fairways run out more in your average PGA event. When you watch average guys like Ken Duke, Dustin Johnson, Kevin Streelman etc. you can see that they're not huge off the club but they still average very good distances. The guys like Jason Day, Rory and DJ are just freaks.

03ki11erAG said:

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When you watch average guys like Ken Duke, Dustin Johnson, Kevin Streelman etc. you can see that they're not huge off the club but they still average very good distances. The guys like Jason Day, Rory and DJ are just freaks.

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Did you mean to type Zach Johnson?

These guys are properly fitted and have access to every, and anything, imaginable to help their game......Driver shafts, premium forged irons (many, not all)......

But it comes down to ball striking and being that good. below is Tiger's ball marks on one of his irons from 2005.

Wycliffe_03 said:

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03ki11erAG said:

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When you watch average guys like Ken Duke, Dustin Johnson, Kevin Streelman etc. you can see that they're not huge off the club but they still average very good distances. The guys like Jason Day, Rory and DJ are just freaks.

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Did you mean to type Zach Johnson?

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All those johnson's look a like.

If you watch for them, or have an in at a higher end private club, you can get a tour van fitting. I'm not talking like a demo day, but the actual tour van they take around the country to PGA tour events. I did it with Titleist when I had an in over at ACC, got fit with a Trackman and all new ProV1's, and then watched them build the clubs in the van. Unless they had some hidden super-equipment in the back, they aren't doing anything just incredibly special.



Also, I think you are overstating the numbers of a tour pro a little, not every guy is Dustin Johnson. These carry distances with irons are 7-8 yards longer than mine, and when I go play in anything competitive, I'm easily one of the shorter guys on the course. If you play with an elite junior player or any college player, most of them would easily surpass these averages.

2012 - are those your trackman stats or something from the Tour/Titleist?

The picture comes from Trackman website, it is supposed to be the tour averages.

to be honest, i would say a good portion of distance comes from stretching. having loose and limber back muscles will allow your body to coil better around your spine generating maximum club head speed at impact.

www.thepeoplesclubs.com

the difference in off the rack and special order and tour is the specs themselves

off the rack 9 degree driver might vary between 8 and 10 degrees sometimes almost a whole degree.

special order will drop these specs to .1 or .2 off

tour issue and fitting will be tested to an exactness and the pro will choose the best performing one. the heads will vary in fractions of a gram. a pro will have 4 different 9 degree m1 430's in front of him all varying tenths of degrees and weight and will know exactly which one he wants.

when you are talking about landing area of a foot being the difference between top 10 in proximity to the hole and top 200 considering where the ball can roll out to, you will eliminate anything which you can control which is equipment.

Oh yeah, the quality control of custom orders is way better than off the shelf. The stories I've heard about shaft quality from off the shelf clubs from people who work in the industry will keep me from ever buying from a golfsmith again.

Meant to reply to rusty***

The exactness you describe is a little bit of wishful thinking. My buddy who signed with Callaway and plays professionally on the Canadian PGA Tour describes different experiences with tour buses. For the most part the clubs are better as far as how close they are to what they say but yall are giving too much credit to what the pros have available to them. Everyone can go get clubs that are exact, everyone can go get a wedge ground down or have lead tape placed somewhere on a 3 wood. Pros aren't constantly changing all of their clubs and lies and lofts. Most of them just want consistency.

I've caddied in professional tournaments, played with multiple PGA Tour guys, have been fitted by guys that work with and fit PGA Tour guys.....their equipment is dialed in but they aren't playing stuff that we can't get.

For every guy that plays a club that isn't released to the public there is a guy playing a driver that's 3 years old off the shelf.

Sometimes their golf balls are prototypes....these balls just aren't mass produced because not enough people have swing speeds high enough to play them. The difference between these golf balls are just a few yards.

My buddy gave me two boxes of prototype Callaway balls....one sounded different but i hit them pretty much the same...I'm a 5 HC. Heven said he liked one over the other...I asked him why. He said he hit it a few yards further. So it's not like they have golf balls that go a full club further.