When Sergio tried to hit out of a bunker (#15 IIRC) he hit the high 'wall' of the bunker and the ball bounced back into the sand.

Then, as he was still standing in the bunker, he wiped his club off on the grass along side the bunker. Did he, or did he not ground his club while standing in the bunker?

I'm asking b/c I swear I read either here or on a golf site where a guy got a penalty for 'grounding his club' while standing in a bunker. He was standing in the bunker, then put his club on the grass outside the bunker to adjust his grip.

Anyone?

Not grounding

From the Definitions section in the Rules of Golf for "Bunker":

"Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker. A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker. The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards."

This is why there is no penalty to ground your club outside a bunker in the process of playing a ball that lies in a bunker.

[This message has been edited by USGA77 (edited 7/21/2014 3:35p).]

Saw that too, assumed he placed it far enough outside the bunker it was no worries.
Local tourney couple weeks ago watched a fellow go into a fairway bunker with a club come back out change clubs & hit the ball (needed more to carry the lip) and got penalized for changing clubs. Moral of the story take your bag in with you? News to me...if I really cared enough I get out the Rules.

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Local tourney couple weeks ago watched a fellow go into a fairway bunker with a club come back out change clubs & hit the ball (needed more to carry the lip) and got penalized for changing clubs.

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da fuq??

WTF?

Was the tournament sponsored by the fun police?

Are you supposed to hit with your bag over your shoulder, because you sure as hell can't put it down? Never heard of this rule.

****ing nancies.

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Saw that too, assumed he placed it far enough outside the bunker it was no worries.
Local tourney couple weeks ago watched a fellow go into a fairway bunker with a club come back out change clubs & hit the ball (needed more to carry the lip) and got penalized for changing clubs. Moral of the story take your bag in with you? News to me...if I really cared enough I get out the Rules.

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Is that really a rule?

I don't think he would have got penalized for changing clubs. I think you must have heard that ruling wrong.

yeah, that makes no sense. I think there is a key detail missing from that story.

inozips, somebody made an incorrect ruling or else there's a key fact missing.

A player can take extra clubs into the bunker and lay them in the bunker. He can take his bag in the bunker and lay it there. All without penalty.

Most common penalty situations that occur when a ball lies in a bunker are things like moving a loose impediment, grounding a club, building a stance, hitting a wrong ball, and testing the condition of the bunker. You can now even rake the bunker prior to playing a stroke (as long as you don't rake it on your line of play) if your intent was simply to tidy up the course.

there has to be more to the story regarding that penalty ruling. There is no penalty for switching clubs prior to a shot, I mean...really? Someone actually accepted this penalty?.

USGA... So laying extra clubs down in the bunker isn't considered grounding your club?? Good to know.

All I know is he walked in the trap with one club, came out changed clubs and was penalized.

If he used the club as a cane when climbing out - I think that's a penalty.

That was going to be my guess as to what happened.

Tell me more about "building a stance" and "testing the condition." I do both with my feet when I'm preparing to play a shot from the sand.

[This message has been edited by nom de plume (edited 7/25/2014 8:30a).]

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I'd say kicking sand around as you enter, in regards to testing the condition with your feet. As for building a stance, there was a female player at the womens open that intently took a chunk of the bunker face/lip out to try and build a stance, which is a no no.

fine line between building your stance and taking your stance...

most people wiggle their feet to settle into their stance as they start their routine. This to me is taking your stance. It start to get closer to building your stance on say really sloped bunkers, when you are just trying to get your feet in place to maintain your balance. I think if you just show effort to getting your feet planted to maintain balance, you are ok.

Building your stance is when you start reconstructing things or altering the terrain or surface in such a way that is changes the nature of the lie/shot. Again, think about trying to get your balance on a steep slope of a bunker...you just need to be careful in what you do.

One example I know is if you wiggle your feet to take your stance and feel a rock under your shoe and you use your feet like a bull to scrape backwards and kick the rock out of the way - that is building a stance....so don't scrape your feet back and forth.

HawkTree, that is correct. No penalty for laying clubs down in a bunker. Decision 13-4/0.5 has examples of acts that don't constitute testing the condition of a hazard, and this is one of them.

CapCityAg89, there is no penalty for using a club as a cane to get out of a bunker, provided nothing is done to intentionally test the condition--Decision 13-4/3.5.

Nom de Plume, what CapCityAg89 said is what I woudl say as well. Building a stance is somewhat of a gray area. It usually has to do with a sloping bunker, or sometimes a water hazard, where a player attempts to alter the condition of the hazard in order to sort of level things out. You are allowed to "fairly" take your stance. On a severely sloping bunker face, that might mean displacing a lot of sand with your downhill foot in order to keep from falling down. No penalty for that. Decision 13-4/0.5.

In Rules workshops they show an old video of Calvin Peete (there's a blast from the past), taking his stance in a bunker. He's on an upslope, and after he gets set, he starts pawing the sand with his downhill foot, shoving sand downhill and then standing on the pile he made, in order to get his shoulders level. That's a penalty.

Here's a link to a YouTube video that illustrates some of these situations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt_BPHihMlY



[This message has been edited by USGA77 (edited 7/25/2014 11:20a).]

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CapCityAg89, there is no penalty for using a club as a cane to get out of a bunker, provided nothing is done to intentionally test the condition--Decision 13-4/3.5.

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As I understand it that includes before you even hit your ball correct? For example, if I am stepping in a bunker, stumble, and instinctively use my club to help catch my balance that is not a penalty. Even if I intentionally ground my club because it is a steep spot and I have a bad back it is still not a penalty.

Really the only way to get a club grounding penalty is to make a golf motion of some kind and touch the sand or use it to test the conditions of the bunker.



Great thread and USGA77 we appreciate your insight.

AgsAlaska, you are correct. No penalty.

I love threads where I learn something - I definitely have here.