Can anyone give me some info on Pebble Creek in CS?
Thanks

I have no idea specifically what you are looking for, so here ya go:

http://www.pebblecreek.cc/

Sorry, I should be more specific. What are the conditions of the course, ownership, etc.

I worked there from 92-95 when just the course was open and the only houses on the course were #14 and #16. The clubhouse was not even built yet. Horrible management then.

I have not been out there in over 10 years, but all I hear are more problems with whomever is managing there now, and it sounds like as of today, the course is not in great shape.

I did like the course though...

I'm a member of PCCC. The previous owner put nothing into the course, and the new group is making improvements incrementally. They started with the clubhouse and pool. They know that the greens have to be completely rebuilt, but I'm not sure on the timeline. The greens became infested with pau annua this winter, and killing that off this spring really set the Bermuda grass back a couple of months. The greens look better now, but still need work. If I didn't live in PC, I would definitely look elsewhere.

[This message has been edited by Ccmd (edited 7/10/2014 7:14p).]

Starting improvements off with the clubhouse and pool doesn't seem like a good move. Money should go into the course first. What variety of Bermuda greens are there now?

[This message has been edited by TSUAggie (edited 7/10/2014 7:24p).]

Standard Bermuda. Not one of the newer types, as far as I can tell. I agree with you that the course should have been upgraded first. They did resand the bunkers and purchased new green and fairway mowers. They are also planting some more live oak trees in places where the drought killed the native trees a couple of years ago. IMO, the greens need to be completely rebuilt. Would also help to put in more bunkers. The original architect planned for more, but the first owner went cheap and put in grassy hollows instead.

Why do the greens need to be rebuilt? Surely they were built to USGA specs when it was first built. Are they just contaminated with off types or do they want a new ultra dwarf Bermuda?

I was told that soil beneath is suboptimal. I believe it is just the same sandfill that was used in many parts of the subdivision, including my house. Requires lots of water. The pro at PCCC also told me they would be doing a complete re-contour of the greens, when the time comes.

About 15 years ago a golf pro originally from CS told me the greens at Pebble Creek did not have the proper drainage infrastructure installed at construction. Whether it was insufficient drainage pipe or base material or construction technique, I don't know. This is second hand info, albeit from a pretty good source, but take it with a grain of salt nonetheless. I have also heard the same story about the developer removing the bunkers from the original design, primarily because he didn't want to maintain them....and that in response the designer told him to remove his name from the design.

I'm pretty sure the course was built by the subdivision developer, who was a successful and well known highway contractor. He was also known for doing it "his way", which may or may not mean he used construction techniques he was familiar with rather than techniques used primarily in golf course construction.

Even with its current issues, PC is a really nice layout in my opinion. Other than complete reconstruction of the greens (if actually needed) I don't think it would take much to get the course and club up to a very good standard.

I would guess, due to when the course opened, that the greens are TifEagle. I have worked for several years as a contractor aerating greens. I offered a service that could "save" greens or certainly slap a bandaid on until the funds could be raised to completely renovate them.

Most greens renovations these days are "no till". It's quick, easier, and less expensive. However, it does zero for the subsurface. If they are, indeed, completely rebuilding then they have a severe problem. The lack of or compromise of drain tiles is probably the culprit. Years of less than ideal water in this scenario will eventually cause a black layer deep in the greens that leads to all types of issues. Think of the sink drain in your bathroom. It is naturally going to catch things. It's not a real issue so long as it is flushed out on a regular basis. But if it isn't(or can't be) flushed is will eventually cause a nasty mess that forces you to get your hands dirty.

Moral of the story: If Pebble, or any course, says they are going to rebuild their greens, be understanding and appreciative. And the people making the decision probably inherited the problem. There are much faster and cheaper ways to mask the problem but they've probably already attempted or contemplated most of them. And now they must bite the bullet to give you good greens for another 20-30 years.

I played there regularly for about five years...

When I think of the course the first thought that enters my mind is the drainage ditch that crosses the 18th fairway at a very uncomfortable angle and distance from the tee box (a chipotle 7-iron notwithstanding).

If not for that ditch #18 would be fantastic finishing hole.

[This message has been edited by Corporal Punishment (edited 7/11/2014 11:06a).]

Some of this connects the dots and makes sense. There are several spots where ditches look more like highway water run-off ditches than golf course hazards. Would make sense if someone with a road contractor mentality built them than a golf course contractor.

BANA Class of '86/'89 - Living the dream in Aggieland!

since I was there when the course opened, I can verify some of what was said about original owner(s) and "his way".

The course/property was owned and managed by Young Brothers - some construction company. FM Young was the owner and to his credit was on site a lot and very proud of the project, but he built infrastructure within the golf course that was poor. He always bought second hand/used equipment. Our range picker was a converted large riding mower, that he got one of his welders to weld a bunch of protective metal around. It constantly fell apart due to the constant use of the machine, the loud/noisy vibrations of it as well as bouncing through the poorly maintained driving range turf.

He always bought USED golf carts. One time he broke down and got new EZ-GOs, which was awesome. He bought used range baskets, used ranged balls ,etc...the list goes on.

The bunkers were originally not built correctly (I was told by multiple people), and always had poor drainage, constant rock problems and inconsistency all around.

Credit to some of the greens keepers early on for making the course as nice as they could. At times it was in really great shape - so much so they hosted the 1995 SWC championships there (some sip by the name of Justin Leonard won).

But it was a golf operation run by a construction company, continually putting people who had no idea what they were doing in charge of important things. The head pro at the time had a golf background (he's Jackie Burke's nephew) and was hamstrung by management so it was a contentious relationship most of the time.

When the clubhouse was wrapping up construction, they purchased used kitchen equipment, used locker room equipment, used pro ship decor, etc. The list went on.

It was just someone that was not in the golf business trying to run a country club. It just doesn't mesh well. The managers of the club operations were family and they were nice but in over their heads.

As a meager cart boy, I took it upon my self to make sure the little things got taken care of on the course, such as yardage markers. They would let grass grow over them in the middle of the fairway, and the paint chip off and such. I would go out there with trimmers and paint and clean them up. Tee markers sucked. Hazard staked laying all over the ground not in place, etc. It was just little things they could have done better.

The members out there early on were very nice and nice to us. I met a lot of faculty and played in the Sunday skins game out there for a few years.

The Youngs need to just keep in construction. I don't know how/when/if they sold to another management company or the complete story, but it probably couldn't have come sooner.

I'm a member and the club is making slow but sure improvements to all facilities including the course. Greens will be a major undertaking when tackled.

I like the course though, and feel the club is a good value as far as country clubs go.

What happened to the superintendent out there?

I don't know if this says anything about the condition but in the Brazos Monthly magazine for the past few months Pebble Creek has been offering discounted memberships. I just saw this month they are giving a 50% off initiation fees. It makes me wonder if they are hurting for memberships or needing more to pay for improvements. Just something I saw that could be relevant.

is chad barrum still the pro out there?

Good guy, he was at pebble creek when i played there a lot during college.

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is chad barrum still the pro out there?

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Yes

VERY good guy. I wish him and the club well. I haven't play there since last fall, but it was in good shape then. And I've always liked the layout.

Been a member for a little over one year. I joined to get my youngest involved in golf. She loves the game. We play every weekend even though I am among the worst players in the Brazos Valley.

I really love the place but readily admit the course needs some TLC. The layout is challenging for the hacker. I think it would be a bear for the low handicapper with the referenced bunkers installed. There are numerous bare spots on the course that are really embarrassing in my view. The greens are much better than last year but still have a ways to go. I think the bottom line is PC is poised to be something special if the course issues are addressed. It is the only CC in CS, which one might argue is advantageous.

Curious what you mean by it's the only CC that's advantageous.

For those who live and work in south CS it is incredibly convenient. I played at Traditions last month. Love the course but it is a bit car for me to hop in the car and driv for a quick 9 holes.

Interesting background. I played there some back in 95-97. For cash-strapped courses, I'm 100% good with courses sodding their bunkers to save $$$ and investing it in maintaing the greens, fairways, and teeboxes. The average golfer is spoiled in expecting great bunker comditions.

With 2 ranked courses and 2-3 other pretty good courses, for a town this size the avg golfer is very spoiled. All our courses are pretty darn good and we should be proud versus dogging each and every one at the sight of a weed, a green that rolls under 12, a thin or moist fairway etc. The essence of a club is camraderie and friendship... enjoy a cold beer. Not screw the board, the super, the owner, the pro etc. because my course does not look like Augusta. Give me a crappy course and a round with a good buddy and I am in heaven!

Miramont and Traditions are both in Bryan. Pebble Creek is the only club in College Station. I think that's all Bobaloo meant by advantageous.

Ok. I don't live in BCS but I have a place in South CS and am a member at Traditions. It's a 10-15 minute drive there. I guess I'm not understanding the location advantage.

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With 2 ranked courses and 2-3 other pretty good courses, for a town this size the avg golfer is very spoiled. All our courses are pretty darn good and we should be proud versus dogging each and every one at the sight of a weed, a green that rolls under 12, a thin or moist fairway etc. The essence of a club is camraderie and friendship... enjoy a cold beer. Not screw the board, the super, the owner, the pro etc. because my course does not look like Augusta. Give me a crappy course and a round with a good buddy and I am in heaven!

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Ok. I don't live in BCS but I have a place in South CS and am a member at Traditions. It's a 10-15 minute drive there. I guess I'm not understanding the location advantage.

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Some of us like to drink...

So do I Barry but I wait until I get home.

Chad is a super guy and works his tail off. He was an assistant out there years ago when Blake Bingham was the pro, but Chad left when he was offered the job as the head pro at Pecan Lakes in Navasota. There was a super out there for a long time named Jim and he did a hell of a job with the resources he was given. There was a very long stretch where FM Young was gone (lives in Waco) and his son Davis ran the show. He only cared about the real estate development side. They saw the easiest way to make money was to develop the property and sell lots. Once they began to run out of lots they sold to the current owners who seem to care about the course and clubhouse.