There is some good analysis on this thread, but like one poster said it is really tough to think about a million things at once. Here are my top three which I'll explain in more detail below. Slow your tempo, shorten your backswing, and work on keeping your right arm straight as much as possible.

Shortening your swing should help reduce the reverse pivot. If you work on slowing your tempo,it should help your timing as your hips currently clear way before the club makes contact. A drill that can help here is to swing at about 20% of your max and really working these few things. You can gradually dial it back up once you start feeling more confident. Working on keeping your right arm straighter will keep the club head square longer and should help with your timing issues as well.

I have similar issues at times. When I go through these steps it helps me get straightened out. As a right handed player, keeping my left arm straighter really works well with the other two points and gets me focused on having my shoulders lead the downswing and keeps my hips from firing too quickly. It also helps build consistency through muscle memory as you are focusing on repeating a motion with one big muscle (shoulders) as opposed to a bunch of smaller ones.

I had the same issue. My swing plane was getting too flat on driver. The ball being farther back with irons and the shorter club erased the problem, but longer shaft plus ball inside the left foot and bang, snap hook barely off the ground.

Two things for me. Get the plane up. Swing out to 1 o 'clock. Swinging out to 1 helped me keep the face from closing too fast.

Result for me was an almost instant high draw.

[This message has been edited by Kramer (edited 3/20/2014 8:40a).]

Slowing down my swing helped a ton today.


Feel like I'm crawling out of the abyss, but I'm not in the light yet.

It took some balls to post this. I don't think I could have done it with my swing. Respect.

Obviously you're pretty serious about your game. I'd spend the $100 and get help from a pro. I expect they would have this lined out in about 10 minutes. I'm sure the guys on here would have some great recs on PGA pros based on your location. Then instead of having 8600 swing/setup thoughts and shooting chili peppers up Lee Janzen's ass, you could work on the one or two things the pro suggested.

bdenby... I am going to give it another couple of weekend rounds... and if it's not close to ironed out by then, I am going to get a lesson.

This habit I've had has been ingrained for over 2 years, so I doubt it's going to be a quick fix.

Certainly understand giving it some time. I only meant that a PGA pro can spot subtle things like grip, alignment, or ball position that can be easily modified, especially when dealing with a problem with a specific club.

I play left handed and battle that same low flip/smother hook. I can hit it right of the John Birch Society. I feel your pain. Good luck.

BTW, the pro at my club had me weaken my very strong grip. Moving the pad of my left hand on top of my right thumb, which was on top of the club. That allows me to still go after it pretty hard but does not allow my left hand to turn over too early shutting the face and producing the low right smother hook.

Bdenby, did the weakened grip affect your iron game? Did you start hurting push slices/fades?

Not at all. I hit them straighter with the weaker grip.

I move my left hand weaker or stronger depending on what I want to hit. I prefer to hit a draw with my irons, so I grip them a little stronger than my driver. I still draw my driver, but the weaker grip doesn't allow me to hook it off the Earth.

Today, I dabbled with having 2 grips.

I would hit my irons with the strong grip that I've gotten so used to...


I would then weaken my grip dramatically to hit my driver. This kind of worked. I hit some pretty good drives with my driver. Ball flight was nice and high (for me). Bad thing is... with this big time weak grip I tended to lose it a little left with a push/slice/fade.


I am going to continue to dabble with this... But it may be lesson time soon.

If you are losing it left and you don't like that, just turn your left hand a bit stronger. Change it incrementally stronger or weaker until you get what you are looking for. You can play it stronger if your hips and core are fast, think Dustin Johnson or Graeme McDowell.

I was really helped by taking it back and through about 18" with all manner of strong or weak left hand. Do this very slowly and you can see how the different grips effect how the toe of the club turns over through the impact area. The extra strong left hand can turn the club head 15* closed at the bottom. You would have to be an incredible athlete to avoid a smother hook.

How were the irons?

**Edit**
I am certainly not a golf teacher and not an especially good player. I suffered from the same issue, irons were good, but LOTS of low hooks with the driver. Everything I suggested comes from lessons I received from Chris O'Connell which have pretty much cured my problem.

[This message has been edited by bdenby (edited 3/23/2014 9:48a).]

Irons are great. I play the strong grip on the irons through. If I start weakening the grip on my irons, I lose it left or mis hit it. I think I am on to something here. I am going to the range today to mess with my left hand on the driver.

Had my best round of the season yesterday. Most of my holes I blew it on were short game issues. I was playing a course that is pretty forgiving although...

[This message has been edited by Irish Pete ag06 (edited 3/23/2014 11:00a).]

Good deal.

Ok... I'm fixed. For now.


It seems like the biggest thing yesterday was moving my hands back and removing my forward press at address. Second thing was raising my right shoulder way up and left shoulder way down. The ball started flying high and and with a little fade. It was flying so high by the end of the session, I adjusted my driver back down to 10 degrees. Here's videos.

Down the Line
http://youtu.be/POPM3tmz3FM

Side Angle
http://youtu.be/BKosUpTkCwI

[This message has been edited by antman8504 (edited 3/27/2014 10:48a).]

quick questions, what camera do you use to film your swing? what do you mount the camera on?

Haha. I balance the camera in between clubs on my bag.

irish...I just slowed your swing down on my V2 app.. what flex is your driver?? the clubhead is way past the shaft at impact. If you have this app pause right before and right after impact. That may be part of the issue. iron shafts are much stiffer and heavier than the driver, especially if it is stock. the way you release your hands(which is a good thing) causes a huge bend in the shaft

Yeah I noticed that.


My shaft is a 65 gram stiff aldila. It's one of the "upgraded" shafts that the R1 offered. I've had some folks tell me that I may should swing an X-Stiff, but I just don't think I have that much swing speed.


I think it may be a trick of the camera... I was filming with my iPhone.

the iphone camera is good, I used it when I taught. Not to throw one more thing at you but just a thought, the "upgrade" shafts are typically not the real ones just have the stickers on them. Callaway and Ping are the only ones who use actual manufacturer shafts. your iron shafts if steel are around 100 grams so just think of that. hope you are working your way out, hooks are a frustrating thing but an easier fix than a slice.

I wouldn't move to an x, possibly just one with low torque

Appreciate it. Based on the last range session, I have worked my way out of the funk, for now. I am chomping at the bit to play tomorrow to see if I can translate it.

I appreciate it. I know little to nothing about shafts beyond what flexes work for different swing speeds...


Kick and Torque are things I really don't know anything about.

best golf joke I ever heard, and keep in mind this was told by an 80+ year old man in a pro shop as I was going thru a club fitting with him...
You know what real torque is? When you wake up with morning wood, push down on it to pee and come up on your toes--that is REAL torque!

Laughed for a week at that.

Irish-glad you finally worked it out, let me know if you every have any questions. I used to teach and do fittings for a living, but I've been out for over a year so some items I am little behind on.

I lol'ed on that one. Hope I'm still dealing with that kind of torque at 80!


I appreciate it. Can't wait to play and see if I can keep this new non-hookery swing going. I'm always looking for coaching and advice.