Hit a house. Was I wrong?

16,204 Views | 90 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by 1208HawkTree
PedroJack07
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On the back nine this afternoon. It's me and 3 of my friends. Lefty hits a big slice down the left, left of the fence-line, re-tees and hits another down the fairway. He lets the first one go, so we're all in the fairway waiting to hit our seconds. An older gentlemen start screaming from his back yard, "Did someone hit a ball over here?", no one really acknowledges him the first time so he asks again. My friend raises his hand and says, "Yah, I did." So the older man yells back, "Well I need a name and number from someone before you take off."

Well, I know his ball was definitely over the fence but it didn't look like it was deep enough to hit a house, we definitely didn't hear anything from the box, but the hole was playing down wind. I'm a member out there and the other 3 are not, so I told my friend I'd go talk to him.

I go over and ask him if everything is OK. All he can say is "You either hit my house or car so I need a name and number." So, I reply, "Is something broken?" He says, "I don't know yet, I need a name and number though, you either hit my house or car." I start to get frustrated at this point, it's one thing if we've broken a window or dented a car or something, but all he really has at this point is that he heard a ball (I can only assume hit his roof from his reaction) but he wants to blame us for something.

So, I ask, albeit in a smartass tone, "Was it the house, or was it the car." He again replies that he doesn't know. "So, you want our information, but you don't know if I've done damage to either your house or car? I'm not going to do that." He says, "That's right." So I tell him, "Take a look around, go check out your car, I want to see what damage your claiming before I give you any information." He says we're going to drive off if he walks away, I assure him we wont. He goes to the front of his house and comes back on his phone, and says "I have your cart number, I'll just call the proshop and get your name." I said, "Sure that's fine, they should have it for you." At that point, his wife, who I haven't noticed this whole time comes out from the patio and says, "Wouldn't it just be easier if you gave him your information." I said, "I don't think there is any reason to, I grew up on a golf course and we were always told it's the homeowners responsibility if something happens, you assume liability." She said "Try telling that to your insurance company." At that point, I said fine, call Tony, call Ken (pros at the club), they know who I am, they can give you my info. He says, "Oh you're a member?" I say yes sir, so he says, "Well then I guess you won't be very hard to track down." I say I guess not and drive off....

Anyway..

Question 1: I know I didn't take the high road, but am I the A-Hole here?

Question 2: Am I right in the fact that it's the homeowners responsibility?

Hamburger Dan
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A) That guy was a dick
B) I am a high school golf coach, I have traveled to more golf courses in my two states that I can remember. Many of the ones built around neighborhoods have signs that state the "players assume liability for damages". More of a threat than an actual provision.
C) I have talked about that with people I know personally that live on / close to a golf coure. They all say they have homeowners insurance.
D) You live on a golf course - stuff happens.
Bondag
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If you live on a fairway you will get hit.
big ben
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quote:
D) You live on a golf course - stuff happens.


This
1208HawkTree
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If the course was there when he bought/built his house, it's an assumed risk of the homeowner. The only way your friend is legally liable is if he intentionally hit it over there. Grey area is aiming over houses or yards to cut a corner, etc. and hitting something as a result of it. Don't want balls hit in your yard and maybe hitting/damaging something of yours? Find a tee box lot or don't live on a golf course.
The Milkman
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Happened to me once...

When they asked me if one of us just hit one a shot their way we said no.

But in your case ya that guy was a jerk and just looking for easy insurance money it sounds like. "either my house or car" What BS
DannyDuberstein
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Overall, it seems that you're typically not going to be legally liable, although there are always exceptions. Pretty sure there was an article in Golf Digest covering this topic before.

If there is ever a next time, it seems like a good situation for breaking out the phone video camera so you can capture the guy on film unable to produce damage and/or the ball that caused it, just to make sure you seal the deal in case this guy wants to push it.

I have absolutely zero interest in owning a golf course home either. Paying a premium for danger, damage, and lack of privacy has always seemed nuts to me.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 4/22/2012 11:13p).]
superbowlringd
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Not liable, if you hit one on the street and hit a car, not liable. If you live or drive by a golf course it is expected that a golf ball can come your way, you take that risk.
AgPrognosticator
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Based on case law, you are not liable for personal injury caused by a golf shot unless you're being grossly negligent (IE: teeing off in the wrong direction while drunk and/or stoned). I'm not sure what the law says about personal property. However, it would seem odd that you could be held liable for damage to property, yet can't be held liable for damage to a person. If there is an assumption of risk for a person to play on the golf course, I would certainly bet that a court would rule there is an assumption of risk for LIVING on a golf course.

As long as you are playing golf to the best of your ability and not jacking around I don't think you should ever be worried about damaging property along a golf course. For what it's worth, a Supreme Court Justice said the following: “Athletic activity by its nature involves strenuous and often inexact and imprecise physical activity that may somewhat increase the normal risks attendant to the activities of ordinary life outside the sports arena, but this does not render unreasonable the ordinary conduct involved in such sporting activities.”

DannyDuberstein
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What's funny is I recall seeing this on People's Court many many years ago and recall Wapner ruling in favor of the golfer. I just did a little googling and it's apparently been on Judge Judy before too, and she found for the homeowner.
Mr.Bond
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My folks live on the conroe country club course and had a shank spider shatter one of their windows. Long story short, my folks ha to pay for damages.
bagger05
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Yeah, I've always heard that those signs that say "you are responsible for damages" are referring to course rules and not the law. Basically a club could revoke your playing privileges if you hit a house and didn't pay for the damages, but I've always heard that living on a golf course means you assume the risk of your house getting hit.

I have no interest in living on a golf course. I'd love to live across the street from the clubhouse, but never on a fairway.

Sounds like that guy was a jerk. It didn't seem from your account that you were being an a--hole.
clintaggie04
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I can tell you with 100% certainty that the country club where I grew up always said the homeowner is responsible for any damage. The only time I have ever heard of the golfer being responsible is if they purposely damage someone's property (almost impossible to prove) or if the homes were there before the golf course. Even if the homes predate the course, I still think legally there is nothing the homeowner could do. It is just more of a course rule, which means ante up or don't play there anymore.
Codeno
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I broke a window back in high school with a wayward tee shot. Somehow I threaded the needle through some lattice board and nailed a window. The homeowner said it sounded like a gun shot. We found the ball under her piano with a shard of glass in the ball.

The lady's son ended up being one of my brother's classmates. I think I paid her $20 deductible to replace the window. Luckily it was a small piece of glass.
Rusty GCS
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My pro told me that in Texas the homeowner is liable unless his house was built before the course was built.

He said in Louisiana the golfer is always liable.


Keep in mind he's a pro and not an insurer
AgDotCom
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I've never hit a house or car but always felt I'd pay for the damage if I did. Not because I had to, but because I'd want to. That's just me and I'm not saying it's necessarily the right thing to do.

However the thing that bothers me about the above situation is that if he can't produce the damage, what's to say you won't ultimately be blamed for damage that someone else did in the past when he starts to look and "finds" it?
'03ag
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I've heard that you can be liable for damage, but in this case that doesn't really matter.

as far as i'm concerned you spent way too much time with the guy. he either shows you the damage or you go on your merry way. he can track you down later if he wants. someone had a good idea about the cell phone camera. pull it out and get it on tape that he refuses to show you the damage.

not only that, if you're a member then i would call the pro immediately and tell them what's up. tell them the owner refused to show you the damage. they'll approach his phone call much differently after that.
EdmondsWay
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quote:
Not liable, if you hit one on the street and hit a car, not liable. If you live or drive by a golf course it is expected that a golf ball can come your way, you take that risk.


I nailed a car while playing #12 at the TAMU gc. It was a beautiful high fade from the tee. hit the west bound car square in the windshield.
belowpar
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I live on a golf course and according to the golf course, homeowners association, insurance, etc. it is always the golfers fault and are liable. There are signs posted, it says it on the scorecard, etc.

That being said, do people actually leave a note if they break a window?? No...There are that select few 2%ers who are good people and take liability for their actions, but most don't.

That also being said, homeowners should take responsibility to prevent as much as they can, whether it be nets, etc. I know several people in our neighborhood that put in "unbreakable" glass or whatever it is because theres have been broken so many times.

Luckily I'm directly to the side of a green and are protected by several trees. We get less than 5 balls in the yard a year.

All that being said, if someone broke a window, I would hope they would leave their information but I don't expect they actually would.

In your situation, I would not have left information unless there was actual damage and I would ask to see the damage if I were the golfer, BUT if I did break something, I would take responsibility for it.
lp01
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I don't believe it's this way everywhere, but I played in a tournament last week in Round Rock. Before everyone went out, they told us as they were giving the rules that the golfers were responsible for any damages. They made a point to tell us. However, I've always heard that it is an assumed risk of the home owner or driver if they are hit driving by a course.
Kjodie
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As stated, homeowners responsibility.

BUT, no way in hell im giving my info out if the guy can't point out where i damaged something. He could go hit his grill with a hammer just so he could get a new one.
98Ag99Grad
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Always heard assumed risk as well. Isn't that what homeowners insurance is for?

BTW- mind telling what club this was at?
victory
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there is no way I would give a guy living on the golf course my info bc a ball hit his house. And if he was an a$$ in this situation I would have no problem being an a$$ right back to them.
proudaggie02
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quote:
Question 1: I know I didn't take the high road, but am I the A-Hole here?

Nope. The guy sounded like a jerk. You had every right to ask for proff of damage before even considering giving him your info.

quote:
Question 2: Am I right in the fact that it's the homeowners responsibility?

Yes. The only chance a homeowner has is if the house was built before the course, and even if this is the case, it is still a long shot. There was a discussion on this a while back where I think some legal authority was cited. I think the HO has to prove more than just negligence.... which if the golfer says "I was trying to hit the fairway", the homeowner is screwed.

It basically takes the golfer admitting "I was trying to hit your hosue" to be liable. One possible exception, if I remember correctly, is if you're trying to cut a dogleg by hitting over house and hit a house. If a golfer admits that was his intent, he could be liable.

All in all, it seems like it is very, very rare that a golfer is held liable for damages.

bigfoot10s
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Pedro- Please update this thread if/when he actually calls the club for your info. I, for one, want to know how this turns out
HouAggie
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Pedro, I'm guessing this was on #12? Or maybe even #11? I'm pretty sure I know where you were playing and I'd like to avoid this clown in the future!
proudaggie02
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quote:
I live on a golf course and according to the golf course, homeowners association, insurance, etc. it is always the golfers fault and are liable.

This is funny. It's like the course, HOA, and insurance think they can make up rules that trump legal precedent.

quote:
There are signs posted, it says it on the scorecard, etc.

These signs often make me chuckle, as they are incorrect.

quote:
That being said, do people actually leave a note if they break a window?? No...There are that select few 2%ers who are good people and take liability for their actions, but most don't.

It's called coming to the nuisance if the course was there first, which is usually the case. The only way I'd think about paying is if the house predated the course. The homeowner likely has insurance that will cover it, and they chose to live on a course.

All this said, I think cars on the street (and even in a driveway, I believe) are a different story (ie- much more likely for golfer to be liable). My bro-in-law hit a rope hook at a guy's truck in his driveway about 200 yards away. At the last second, it hit a tree limb and kicked in the fairway. It was an intense 3-4 seconds.
DannyDuberstein
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quote:
I live on a golf course and according to the golf course, homeowners association, insurance, etc. it is always the golfers fault and are liable. There are signs posted, it says it on the scorecard, etc.


This is because the golf course and HOA want to stay on good terms with the residents so they've agreed to post signs to try to influence the golfers into paying even though the law in most cases backs the golfer. In most cases, these signs, policies, etc. don't have a leg to stand on. As someone mentioned above, the biggest stick the golf course is able to use would be the ability to bar the golfer from the course.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 4/23/2012 10:23a).]
12thMan2012
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If you don't want to live with the possibility of getting your home/belongings hit with a golf ball, don't live on a golf course. Pretty simple.
MW03
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The case you guys are looking for is called "Malouf v. Dallas Athletic Club". In that case, a group of homeowners sued the country club after their houses kept getting pegged on a certain hole. The homeowners said that the players (and vicariously, the club) were trespassing because they were hitting their houses. The court disagreed and dismissed the claim.

I'm going to post what the court said, but only after this caveat...

This is not legal advice. If you shanked a ball and damaged someone's personal property, please do not construe what I'm about to post as legal advice regarding your case. I am simply regurgitating what the court said on a case where personal property was damaged by a golfer. If you have found yourself in situation where you need advice on whether or not you are specifically liable, it's time to hire an attorney and take his advice.

With that out of the way

quote:
The evidence supports the trial court's findings and conclusions that appellants suffered destruction of, or injury to, personal property.(Citation omitted) Each appellant testified concerning his individual damages and supplied a repair bill documenting the cost of the damages. However, the record reflects neither legal nor factual evidence that either DAC or the individual golfers intended to commit an act which violated a property right. (Citation omitted) During a game of golf, on the Gold course, the individual golfers intend to hit golf balls toward hole number six. This does not violate a property right. The fact that the ball may "slice" or "hook" onto appellants' properties is an unintended consequence. Appellants had the burden of proof at trial and on appeal of showing that the evidence conclusively established the elements of trespass. Because appellants failed to demonstrate that DAC or the individual golfers intentionally caused the golf balls to damage appellants' personal property, we cannot say that the trial court's conclusion of law that the DAC did not trespass is erroneous.


So there you have one court's opinion on a certain set of facts. You can see how this would be different under different facts.

Again, OP, nothing herein is to be construed as legal advice for your specific case. I'm just repeating what the case law has said on the issue.
belowpar
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I believe the answer is not very black/white. There are cases out there that rule both ways. Just because I have homeowners insurance doesn't mean I'm not paying out of my pocket. There are deductibles to pay, etc.

Why should I shell out the cash for you breaking my window?

What if I'm mowing my yard and I accidentally hit a rock and it shoots out and hits my neighbors window. I wasn't trying to do that, but it happened. Should he have assumed that risk of me mowing my yard next door?

There are a million examples going each way. Again, I think the golfer SHOULD fix it, but they don't and I understand that.

http://www.freeadvice.com/law-questions/am-i-legally-responsible--65192.htm
MW03
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Belowpar, the example you posted makes clear the problem with going to the internet on things like this.

For example, I don't know if the OP was in Texas, but i recited the law in Texas. Although your post stated the "general rule of thumb in the country" I'm guessing that he is qualifying his answer in California law.

That's why I put my caveat in my response. You are 100% right in saying that it can go a million ways depending on where it happened and exactly what happened.
belowpar
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Granted this one was not in texas but here is the exact opposite of Malouf vs DAC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sports/golf/24golf.html

Homeowners won this case against the club. Again, I'm not saying either side is correct. Way too much gray.

Morally & Ethically I think golfers should pay to fix is my opinion.
terradactylexpress
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I like to think I would pay, never been in the situation. I also have played some places where homes are so close to fairways that I feel less bad about potentially hitting a house 20 yards off a fairway than a home that is 80-100 yards away
proudaggie02
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quote:
I believe the answer is not very black/white. There are cases out there that rule both ways.

I'm going off memory here, but it seems like the VAST majority of cases rule in favor of the golfer. It is very rare for the homeowner to win. The link you provided does not cite any legal authority, and I'm not convinced it is more than the opinion of the attorney who answered the question. And yes, CA might be quite different than TX here, but the attorney did not cite anything.

quote:
Why should I shell out the cash for you breaking my window?

Assumption of risk is a tort defense. There is an inherent risk involved with owning a house on a golf course; this risk is assumed by the homeowner.

quote:
What if I'm mowing my yard and I accidentally hit a rock and it shoots out and hits my neighbors window. I wasn't trying to do that, but it happened. Should he have assumed that risk of me mowing my yard next door?

A random accident like the mowing example you gave would not allow a successful assumption of risk defense. That is not an inherent risk as your neighbor owes you the duty to not cause damage.
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