Macarthur said:

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This is really timely for me and my family as our middle son in a senior and we're going through the applications and approval process...

Long story short, he's a very strong student. Was an auto admit at A&M and has been accepted. However, his first choice is UT. We've been very honest that he may get into UT, but will get zero $ (He's Nation Merit so will get $ at all other state schools).

Regardless of your feelings about UT and the system, it is a real shame that so many kids that were born and raIsed in Texas and are strong students will have a big up hill battle being able to attend said State university.

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If he's already admitted into A&M's School of Engineering, he's in a great place. My kid is a college freshman this year, National Merit, top 10 in class, Eagle Scout, etc. and was offered money at both tu and A&M. Kid was accepted into Mays (because the kid put Biz school as prefered major) but changed mind, after already being accepted, to Engineering, and did NOT get into the engineering school. A&M offered about $17k/year.

In our experience, tu showed what a clown show that school is during the kid's application process there. Kid had automatic admission, applied to Engineering school and was offered Environmental Science tract, which is in the School of Liberal Arts. tu offered a Presidential Scholarship, in the range of $12.5k per year, then about 2 months letter sent a letter saying they'd made a mistake and the offer was for a different scholarship at a lower rate. Needless to say, tu was rejected.

Kid is now at a national top 15 university, School of Engineering with a 4 year package worth about $260,000. Out-of-pocket for Mom and Dad is $10k/year. Funny how things can just work themselves out for the better. Aggie Engineering is a great option, hope your kid takes it.

I agree, as does my wife, but we're trying to allow him to somewhat come to that conclusion on his own. He seems to almost be there.

Our only other options would most likely be somewhere like UT Dallas (which is a solid choice) or UH. He's not interested in Tech. His grandfather is a TCU alum so there's def some love there, but they don't have an engineering program so that nostalgia won't suffice (and don't want to pay the extra cash).

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Have you seen the talent at Arizona State though?

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After several years of living in Tempe, I can vouch for that. Plus, they have a vaccination for HPV now, so that makes going there all that much more attractive.

levypantsEOY said:

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tu has somehow managed to keep rigorous admissions (they let in less than 40% of applicants) and has moved up in rankings (the people who say they don't matter don't matter) despite a growing Texas population.

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Acceptance rate is another stat that should be considered with many salt grains.

I posted about this several times in the past, somewhere on TA. If I get some time, I'll find one of those links.

In short, some schools (ahem, UT-Austin, I've heard), *desire* to control/have a low acceptance rate. As was explained to me....college admissions is a business. Don't think of the university as some pure/innocent/altruistic enterprise.

Acceptance Rate = accepted_count / application_count

How to achieve a low acceptance rate --> increase the denominator (application_count)
--> solicit/encourage as many applications as possible, regardless of anything/everything.


How to obtain as many applications as possible?

• Reduce the number of Texas auto admits by reducing the auto-admit percentage from top10% to top6-7%. --> Creates buzz/perception of being highly selective --> results in more applications from high-school grads across the US.

• Also, In actuality, those TX students just outside the 6-7% will still apply even though they're outside the auto-admit guideline. (They're hoping for an exception/consideration of some sort.)
• End result, application_count increases, consequently lowering the all-important acceptance rate without any real change in education/opportunities.

Another aspect to reducing auto-admit percentage from 10% to 6/7%?

• Understand/realize that UT-Austin, among others, is landlocked. They can build up, but building out is more difficult. Austin is already built-up.
• By reducing the number of auto-admits (from top 10% to top 6/7%), fewer Texas (in-state tuition) students are admitted, enabling admission of more lucrative out-of-state/out-of-country students (those students pay higher tuition).

TLDR:

• Acceptance rate, in and of itself, is another stat that is fairly unworthy of considering when selecting/evaluating a school, especially when the school attempts to artificially influence the number.
• Let the buyer (applicant) beware.
• IMO, visit the school and evaluate fit. Ask questions about job opportunities after graduation for specific majors.

BTW, my source for the above info....a former admissions officer at a university that shall not be named, in Austin. For some universities, admissions is indeed a business...gotta make bank, somehow. lol.

levypantsEOY said:

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You mean the education that has dropped in rankings on pretty much every college analysis service? That one?

Maybe you're a big believer in the "bigger is better" attitude on display in CS, but I am not.

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Focus on the degrees. A&M produces great grads in engineering and business. Sorry that bothers you.

Macarthur said:

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I agree, as does my wife, but we're trying to allow him to somewhat come to that conclusion on his own. He seems to almost be there.

Our only other options would most likely be somewhere like UT Dallas (which is a solid choice) or UH. He's not interested in Tech. His grandfather is a TCU alum so there's def some love there, but they don't have an engineering program so that nostalgia won't suffice (and don't want to pay the extra cash).

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https://engineering.tcu.edu/

Think about this the next time you cross a bridge. It just might have been designed by a TCU alum.

Regarding the OP's original point, this should be a concern to all Ags (actually, all Texas residents). The effing sips are using admissions to buy political favors. We know it's in their nature to tilt the sports playing fields in their favor, of not outright cheat, so this is in their nature. The question is what are those favors the sips have purchased? Are they granted to the detriment of other colleges in the state?

DallasAg 94 said:

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Acceptance Rate is a silly stat.

If 50% of your Applicants know they won't get accepted and still apply, it can skew the numbers.

I know a ton of kids who apply to Ivy League schools who know they won't get accepted, but was the flush letter.

A&M doesn't get as many applicants from Concordia, like the Sips do.

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If the acceptance rate is misleading, as you argue, how about SAT scores as a metric for applicants? tu's undergrads score on average around 100 points higher on their SATs.

Look the fact remains A&M is a great school. But it's becoming increasingly obvious that being less selective to boost numbers can be detrimental the quality of our students. This isn't rocket science (another field of study they outrank us in).

levypantsEOY said:

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If the acceptance rate is misleading, as you argue, how about SAT scores as a metric for applicants? tu's undergrads score on average around 100 points higher on their SATs.

Look the fact remains A&M is a great school. But it's becoming increasingly obvious that being less selective to boost numbers can be detrimental the quality of our students. This isn't rocket science (another field of study they outrank us in).

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I'm unsurprised that sips have, as you say, a higher average SAT score for incoming students; that's a direct result of reducing their auto-admit percentage.

If A&M reduced their auto admit percentage as well, that would enable A&M to admit higher ranked students (who ostensibly also have higher SAT/ACT scores) and also free up more spots to admit the more lucrative out-of-state/out-of-country students (and only the ones with high SAT/ACT scores).

I may very well be wrong, but don't think A&M is interested in reducing their auto-admit rate, however.

IMO, more/most important are things like success during/ater college and giving back/volunteering. I believe Aggies do quite well in these regards.

A final, anecdotal mention....I've been involved with recruiting with two Aerospace companies and one IT company. I wouldn't say "by far", but I would say there was a clear preference from all 3 companies to recruit at A&M over UT. I kept my mouth shut about it all and an open mind, because I wanted the best candidates for my employer, regardless which school they attended.

Anyhow, the comments I heard from fellow recuiters were related to the academic preparedness of students, graduate friendliness (easy to work with), and the career fair itself (better at A&M).

TLDR: There are a lot of metrics that can be used to argue this or that. It's worthwhile to think about where those metrics come from and what they mean. It's a fools errand to use metrics/rankings as some kind of ego-assuaging process. What matters most is what happens after college , IMO, not what happened before college, e.g. high school SAT scores.

Does not look like the 100 point higher SAT is correct. This has us at 1252 and sips at 1275. No real difference

https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-scores-for-colleges

Utdallas is actually higher the Austin

Oops, apologies for not being confrontational toward the sips & sip fans. Somehow I overlooked that this discussion was on OR. lol. Totally my fault for not realizing this was an OR thread.