I'm bored, it's late, and there are no women worth dating up here, so I have lots of time to ponder. And I'm sure this has been discussed many times over, yet I'm too lazy to search through all the threads.

Who do you think had a bigger impact on the demise and downward spiral of the conference? The sips and ESiPN creating their tv network or Mike Leach?

I have been drinking, but hear me out.... Mike Leach brought in his system and was good enough to beat teams inline to win the conference every now and then, which slowly caused teams to change styles of play in order to keep up in the track meet style games to beat Leach. Eventually, most teams were/are playing a similar style of football that was more like his style and defensive play went by the wayside and has created what we see now. Along the way the sips and ESiPN got together and pissed off enough schools to jump ship from the conference.

Which one had the bigger impact?

It is not dead yet though greatly diminished with the loss of states and school in Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and the eastern sliver of Texas. and it does serve a useful purpose binding 8 schools together that probably wouldnt have a place at P4 table when and if the next realignment occurs. There is just not enough population in the states of Oklahoma, Iowa (1/2 big 12 & 1/2 big10) Kansas and West Virginia for the P4 to want to take on.

Other factors are:

Tu which ran off nebraska and Colorado and started the downfall.

Tu's desire to run the conference at the expense of its other members.

Tu's attitude during the loss of Colorado & Nebraska and two years later with the loss of A&M and Missouri.

The bringing in of West Virginia and TCU while thinking that was going to replace A&M,Nebraska, Missouri and Colorado.

The tv, media, bowl revenue that the SEC. big10 and ACC are bringing in. It is putting the pac12 and big12 at a disadvantage.

The Lhn which caused A&M and Missouri (which wanted to jump first) to move to the SEC.

7 on 7 in Texas which helps develope offensive talent at the expense of the defense.

Mike leach's run and shoot or spread offense which seems to have taken over the big12 but doesn't work as well against teams with top 10-15 defenses. It is also spreading the offensive talent thin in the state of Texas. Especially with the poachers from other states/conferences recruiting QB's WR's and RB's from the state.

Not many if any conference matchups of national interest. So you get TCU, tech, WVU, KSU,KU OSU-Stillwater, Baylor,Iowa state on your schedule they pale in comparison to what the SEC, ACC, PAC12, and BIG10 east division has to offer. Big10 west division is about as bad as what the big 12 has to offer.

Another factor to consider is the CFP system on the conferences. October and November have become the months for big interconference matchups to determine division champions and the ultimate conference champion to possibly secure a spot in the final 4. Fans are geared to that. The SEC, big10, ACC and to some extent the pac12 even though they are greatly hindered by the time zone problem have those matchups that bring national interest. And As stated above the big12 doesn't have the following outside of OU/tu that the other conferences have.

Big intraconference matchups are being squeezed out by conference play. September is becoming the only month for intaconference matchups as far as the viewing public is concerned. Case in point is bama which didn't play any real big non-conference foes and didnt play in the sec championship game but here they are in the national championship game. Meanwhile OU leveraged a win over Ohio state in September to earn a spot over them in the CPF. Otherwise would OU have made it as opposed to either wisconsin or Ohio state? Yet here is the SEC with two teams in the national championship game. Conferences and national exposure/ interest do matter.


All are contributing factors the question is where do you assign the most blame. Note that 4 of the items involve tu.

tu....end of discussion.

The big 12 with all of its original members and a conference network deal done in 2010 would be a powerful conference.

But now they have very little and those that can will leave if they ever get a chance.

I read that both Arizona and Arizona State aren't happy with the Pac-12 commish -- especially with the debacle that is the pac-12 network and a potential landing spot for them is the big 12. That would make an interesting conference.

DeLOSS Dodds.

Next question?

DifferenceMaker Ag said:

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DeLOSS Dodds.

Next question?

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Add in Beebe and his Beebe bucks, that's your answer.

When Dodds and Osborne nixed the Big XII conference network, thereby forcing Weiberg out as Big XII commish in 2007. Had the Big XII started a conference network about the same time as the B1G was setting up theirs, the grant of rights necessary for the network and the revenues (if divided equally and that was the sticking point) would have solidified the conference.

The second worst decision was tu not hiring Oliver Luck to replace Dodds in 2013. Luck wanted two things, for Mack Brown to be fired before he was hired and expansion of the Big XII back to 12, maybe 14 teams to increase the footprint.

Aggiehawg is right! Luck at tu would have been a smart move and sent them (and the entire conference) in a much better direction. I'm personally glad the tsips screwed up that opportunity.

Hotard_Exists said:

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Aggiehawg is right! Luck at tu would have been a smart move and sent them (and the entire conference) in a much better direction. I'm personally glad the tsips screwed up that opportunity.

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Luck also would have been able to work well with Boren and Castiglione at OU, mend some fences there. He likely would have pushed (with OU's backing) to bid adieu to Bowlsby and get a more competent Big XII commish in there.

Had Dodds stepped down in 2012 and Luck been hired then, the Big XII would have been able to get Pitt (instead of them going to the ACC) and either Cincy or Memphis to give West Virginia closer neighbors. (Luck was AD at West Virginia and knew the issues they faced within the Big XII.)

vansprinkle said:

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DifferenceMaker Ag said:

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DeLOSS Dodds.

Next question?

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Add in Beebe and his Beebe bucks, that's your answer.

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While true, Beebe was merely a goiter on Dodds' throat. More than all factors combined, the greed and poisonous self interest that Dodds personified at every conceivable opportunity created fissures, then cracks and then chasms that the conference will never repair.

The Big 12 was a bad marriage from the start. The greedy, whorish sips made it worse.

Every one of the 10 schools in the B12 would jump at a membership offer by any of the P4 conferences.

Supreme irony that a Kansas A&M (State) Aggie (Wildcat) like Dodds was able to infuse an attitude of arrogant superiority so totally over-the-top at sipville that he destroyed a conference, ruined the sip gameday experience, and put a dominant athletic program on a sustained path to UC Berkeley mediocrity.

i mean, KSU is a bottom feeder academically. that one of their alums destroyed tu athletics while they bought his bull****, and freed us from their plantation of a conference, will always be funny as hell.

Deloss dodds fingerprints are all over this one. He and the tu leadership (and their hubris over 100 years) is the answer you're looking for.

California Ag 90 said:

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Supreme irony that a Kansas A&M (State) Aggie (Wildcat) like Dodds was able to infuse an attitude of arrogant superiority so totally over-the-top at sipville that he destroyed a conference, ruined the sip gameday experience, and put a dominant athletic program on a sustained path to UC Berkeley mediocrity.

i mean, KSU is a bottom feeder academically. that one of their alums destroyed UT athletics while they bought his bull****, and freed us from their plantation of a conference, will always be funny as hell.

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Wow, POTD!!!

OP should drink more; enjoyed the thought. Blue star, sir!

If Leach changed the rules, then Briles had the Saban-like effect that turned the league on its head. Coincidence that both were taken down by sports media?

tyrone said:

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Deloss dodds fingerprints are all over this one. He and the tu leadership (and their hubris over 100 years) is the answer you're looking for.

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Bingo

tyrone said:

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Deloss dodds fingerprints are all over this one. He and the tu leadership (and their hubris over 100 years) is the answer you're looking for.

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Deloss was the instrument. The hand was the rest of the horn admin. The body and mind are the horn old guard alumni, who sincerely believe they are superior to everyone and everything else. Their faith in their provenance is so profound they have forgotten that you have to work for it and earn it. Instead they lazily use underhanded and arrogant methods to get what they "deserve".

When the SWC was in decline, A&M (and others) was constantly told that The University was carrying the conference and therefore deserved a larger share of the pie. They brought that attitude into the Big12 and it reached its logical conclusion when LHN was exclusively formed for horn and they would use it to get more money, to flatter recruits by televising them and to prevent the creation of a conference network. It was the ultimate proof of their superiority and they gloated and patted each other on their backs. We all know what the result was.

Their faithful still come over here to post certain that someday that their superiority will become abundantly apparent and they can gloat and chant 'poor Aggies' as they feel they should always be able to do. Randolph Duke may be an ass, but his constant diatribes actually made it clear that there are huge cracks in their world view, and he has to resort to obviously fictitious slurs to reclaim their superiority. He is conceding they aren't where he wants them to be.

Lastly, I want to point out that Missy sucks huge cock.

Who is Randolph Duke? Googled the name and came up with L.A. fashion designer. Is he with Nike?

Wede01 said:

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Who is Randolph Duke? Googled the name and came up with L.A. fashion designer. Is he with Nike?

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Hmm. Is this sarcasm?

If not, read this thread which has a lot of info on the horn poster named Randolph Duke.

goodAg80 said:

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Wede01 said:

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Who is Randolph Duke? Googled the name and came up with L.A. fashion designer. Is he with Nike?

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Hmm. Is this sarcasm?

If not, read this thread which has a lot of info on the horn poster named Randolph Duke.

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I've always liked Randolph Scott.

Still conference fapping eh ags?

Just a history lesson for young Ags to remind them of how much better off we are now in 6 years in the sec than how we were in the last hundred when we were associated with tu.

Texasteasipper said:

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Still conference fapping eh ags?

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Absolutely
Thanks for being a cancerous legion that destroys and ruins anything you're associated with.

Texasteasipper said:

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Still conference fapping eh ags?

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1. You hired Charlie Strong, and then Herman
2. We have Jimbo Fisher
3. We have a half billion dollar stadium
4. You have a dump of a stadium

All are due to conference affiliation.

Have a nice day.

goodAg80 said:

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Their faith in their provenance is so profound they have forgotten that you have to work for it and earn it. Instead they lazily use underhanded and arrogant methods to get what they "deserve".

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I believe this is the root cause of their entitled and underdeveloped players and aloof coaches.

Texasteasipper said:

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Still conference fapping eh ags?

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Not exactly. Pay attention.

You:
Apparently you're interpreting the discussion as a comparison of conferences. I suppose it's understandable that you jump to that interpretation, because the BDF is so substandard.

Us:
We're discussing how the horns killed what could have become a good & stable conference but, because of horn behavior, has become a cesspool that nobody wants to be associated with.

Caesar4 said:

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Texasteasipper said:

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Still conference fapping eh ags?

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Not exactly. Pay attention.

You:
Apparently you're interpreting the discussion as a comparison of conferences. I suppose it's understandable that you jump to that interpretation, because the BDF is so substandard.

Us:
We're discussing how the horns killed what could have become a good & stable conference but, because of horn behavior, has become a cesspool that nobody wants to be associated with.

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Which, if you think about it is the very reason the Big XII failed. That failure to understand the importance of a conference working together as being beneficial for all members. #Mefirst#mymoney#screweveryoneelse a/k/a Sip Mentality.

Irish_Man said:

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I've always liked Randolph Scott.

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Whatever happened to Randolph Scott, riding the trail alone? Whatever happened to Gene and Tex, Roy and Rex, the Durango Kid?

Caesar4 said:

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Texasteasipper said:

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Still conference fapping eh ags?

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Not exactly. Pay attention.

You:
Apparently you're interpreting the discussion as a comparison of conferences. I suppose it's understandable that you jump to that interpretation, because the BDF is so substandard.

Us:
We're discussing how the horns killed what could have become a good & stable conference but, because of horn behavior, has become a cesspool that nobody wants to be associated with.

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Ask Herbie. He knows a cesspool when he sees one.

When the BDF collapses, sips can join the PAC-12's fairweather fans:

PAC-12 Network's Steep Drop In Subscriber Fees

Greedy Dodds did it and tu let him do it.

jblaschke said:

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Texasteasipper said:

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Still conference fapping eh ags?

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1. You hired Charlie Strong, and then Herman
2. We have Jimbo Fisher
3. We have a half billion dollar stadium
4. You have a dump of a stadium

All are due to conference affiliation.

Have a nice day.

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This is ****ing brutal.