BoSox trade for williamson, could this be the year?

354 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 22 yr ago by
Bag
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very nice addition and the give up nothing...

I like Boston to over take the yanks and enter the Fall classic...

My prediction right now

San Fran V Boston


ps grady little is bad man...
Buck Naked
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If the BoSox win the series, I am pretty sure the end of the world is right around the corner.

CajunAg97
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Since the Angels are our of it, I'm rooting for the BoSox. Their second baseman is awesome!
Quincey P. Morris
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I just don't see them beating the curse any time soon.
LonghornDub
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Okay, Bag. We'll pull for the Bosox in the AL. In the NL, we can pull for the Astros to beat the wild card Cubbies for the pennant. Astros versus Bosox in the series. Garciaparra lets a ground ball roll between his legs with two out in the tenth inning of the seventh game and Hidalgo scores the winning run. Houston and Boston both rejoice.

What would Boston be without The Curse?

We now return you to your regularly scheduled life from The Twilight Zone.

Uva Uvum Vivendo Varia Fit
UT1999
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BoSox vs Cubbies in the World Series would definitely mean the Apocalypse is upon us.

Luckily for us it won't happen.
Hong Kong Paul
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My heart says go with the BoSox but I just can't see them breaking that curse the Yanks have on them. We'll see though, they're definitely making the moves and proving they want it. They have one of the best pens in baseball now, my dark horse prediction for the Series...BoSox vs. Florida. Both teams are making some crazy moves, they both want it bad, we'll see what happens.
J A S S O N
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the bosox may very well make the playoffs, but i can assure you it wont rest soley in the hands of williamson.

Hong Kong Paul
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Jasson-

I'm not saying Williamson was the missing piece to the puzzle by any means. All I'm saying is they're making moves and their putting themselves right up there with the best in the league. They're also talking about trying to get Suppan, if that happens give 'em the pennant, with their offense you only need so much pitching and their pen is stacked already. Plus they may be getting Brandon Lyon back.
J A S S O N
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they do have the pieces to make a serious run, no doubt.
they dont have the consistancy to go all the way. look at Lowe (hes pitched mediocre this yr, just had timely run support), wakefield would be one of the last guys i would want to count on in a must win game, except maybe Kim.

pedro is the best pitcher in the bigs, hands down. but he hasnt recieved run supposrt nearly all year.

they own all the pieces but need to get them in place.

can they do it? yea

will they do it? i wouldnt bet alot of U.S. currency on it.
Hong Kong Paul
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quote:
will they do it? i wouldnt bet alot of U.S. currency on it.


Yeah, I'm in the same boat, like i said I don't really see them breaking the curse but they are my darkhorse prediction.

What do you think of Florida? You think they can beat the Braves?
Dan Fielding
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The Braves won't be caught in the East, but the team that I would watch are the D-Backs...If they can get the Wild Card, then I see them going all the way...In the AL, I like either the BoSox or the M's. the A's have great pitching but no run production and the Yanks have no chemistry this year.
J A S S O N
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florida will fold shortly.

ATL will be the NL representative this year. this is the best braves team in as long as i can remember.

oh yea, and look for them to land ponson later this week.
Hong Kong Paul
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So you don't think your Stros are gonna get Ponson or Suppan?
Dan Fielding
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I sure as hell hope they get one of the two...but like jasson says, i'd rather ponson, but suppan is adequate. the stros won't go far because of the inexperienced pitching, i hate to say...
J A S S O N
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welker-
i pray every night before bed that we will land ponson, but its not looking good.
suppan would be an alright addition, but he isnt anything more than a #3-4 man, he gives u a good start once every 3 outtings or so, see redding.

maybe livan hernandez or javier vazquez will become avaliable...
Hong Kong Paul
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hernandez is on the block, he'd be a good pickup.
Horns11
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As the biggest BoSox fan on this board, I can say that it's a 3rd starter keeping them from making any run into the playoffs, not a setup man.

Sidney Ponson would be a MONSTER pickup for them, but they would probably have to move Trot Nixon or Todd Walker to get him. I hope they keep Trot since he came up with the organization. Damien Jackson can suffice at 2nd if they lose Walker, for now at least.

Billy Mueller is a God... I didn't understand why the Cubbies got rid of him in the offseason and I didn't understand why the Sox didn't ship Hillenbrand earlier. Bartolo Colon would have been a great player on this team.

I think Theo Epstein will become one of the best GMs in baseball, and he has a lot of time to mature and get some cred.
CajunAg97
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What about Todd Walker's offense?! He is on pace for 100 RBIs from the #2 spot!
Horns11
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That's why they have Garciaparra, Ramirez, Millar, Mueller, Ortiz, Nixon, and Varitek. They don't need Walker's offense, although his D isn't too shabby.

What they would gain from a guy like Ponson FAR overshadows any contribution Walker would make.
CajunAg97
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Then why did they trade for him in the offseason?!
OceanStateAg
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I beg to differ, I'm the biggest Sox fan on here, though I don't wonder into this board too often.

Sox and St. Louis in the series.
Of course in 1918 it was the Sox and the Cubs and if my memory is right..the Cubs haven't been back and the Sox haven't won since.

I think the Dirt Dawgs in Boston have a shot, but I will celebrate and believe it when I see it. Until then, the curse remains very real.

9-4-1-8 9/4/18 day before the 1918 WS began and until Fisks 27 was retired that's the order the retired numbers where kept in.

1986 best Sox pitcher in the series: Lefty Bruce Hurst

rearrange the letters in his name B Ruth Curse
Ruth was also a LHP.
OceanStateAg
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ddp

[This message has been edited by OceanStateAg (edited 7/30/2003 3:01p).]
Bag
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its all about sabermetrics and sabermetricians...

what a bold move on behalf of the Boston ownership, it just so turns out that young theo is a genius...

THERE IS HOPE FOR ALL US FANTASY BASEBALL GEEKS

for all the minions on the rivalries board, here are some links to keep you entertained during your long stints of unemployment...


http://www.quinion.com/words/weirdwords/ww-sab1.htm

quote:

SABERMETRICIAN
A person who studies baseball statistics.
This is not a particularly well-used word anywhere, but it’s almost unknown outside North America, even among the minority who follow baseball in other countries. The game, I am told, is unusual among competitive sports in that there has been no fundamental change in the rules for almost a century and that, as with cricket but unlike most other team sports, statistics on the performance of individual players have real meaning. So it is possible to compare the players of today with those of previous generations in a meaningful way. According to my US sources, the term is first attested in the early 1980s, and derives from the acronym SABR, short for the Society for American Baseball Research, whose members collect and analyse baseball statistics. Several compounds are known, such as sabermetrics for the discipline.



http://www.lucidsoftware.com/baseball/digest/glossary_of_baseball_and_saber.html

just a couple nice clips

quote:
Secondary Average: This is my favorite statistic to compare players and teams because it takes into account all important aspects of the game: hitting for power, ability to get on base via the walk and base running. It correlates very well with run production, that is, an above average team will score an above average number of runs, almost proportionately.

SecAvg = (doubles + 2*triples + 3*homers + walks + stolen bases - caught stealing) / AB

Pythagorean Theory: Bill James noticed that dividing a team's wins by it's loses will result in a very similar number if he divided the square of their runs scored by the square of the runs allowed. In other words,

wins / losses ~=~(runs scored)^2) / (runs allowed)^2)

From this theory, we can judge whether a team was an overachiever if the wins to losses ratio was higher than the runs ratio. Otherwise, the team was an underachiever.

Expected Wins (EW): By comparing the number of runs scored and allowed against the league average, it can be determined how many games a team should win. For example, if a team scores an average number of runs and also allows an average number, it should play .500 ball. If either number goes up or down, the number of wins goes up or down accordingly.

EW = (((runs scored / league average) - (runs allowed / league average)) * games / 2) + (games / 2)

Once again, if we compare this expected wins total with the actual total, we can see whether the team overachieved or underachieved. Usually, EW is within three games of the actual total.

XR (Extrapolated Runs): The concept behind this stat was to assign a number of runs scored to players. The higher the number, the better, and a player with 100 runs who is being replaced with one with 85 runs will cost his team 15 runs. The complicated formula is:

XR = (.50 *x 1B) + (.72 * 2B) + (1.04 * 3B) + (1.44 * HR) + (.34 * (HP + TBB - IBB)) + (.25 * IBB) + (.18 * B) + (-.32 * CS) + (-.090 * (AB - H - K)) + (-.098 * K)+ (-.37 * GIDP) + (.37 * SF) + (.04 * SH)

The problem with it, and the creators know this, is that these multipliers can vary from season to season. In fact, the formula was created based on data since the 1955 season. Another formula is needed for seasons prior to 1955. There is also a "reduced" XR formula as well as a "basic" one.

ZR (Zone Rating): Invented by Stats, Inc. around 1989, it is a very good stat to compare players defensively. Basically, although it is in reality more complicated than this, each player has a zone to cover. Any ball hit in that zone is counted and any outs made by the player. Dividing one into the other results in a zone rating. It is possible to have a ZR over 1. The problem with it is that Stats Inc. does not publish ZR data and it is impossible to calculate retroactively for players of the past since we need to know where each ball was hit. However, it is a better tool than fielding average in my opinion.

BAT/BAR: Bases Advanced Teammates and Bases Advanced as Runner. My own unofficial statistic, something I came up with a while ago yet I have never calculated it. BAT it is a measure of how many bases a hitter advances teammates already on base.

If a teammate is on second, there is a potential of two bases to advance him. If he scores, the hitter goes 2-for-2 or a 1.000 BAT. If the hitter advanced him to third, he goes 1-for-2, otherwise, he is 0-for-2. If there are runners on first and third, there is the potential of four bases to advance teammates. In a bases loaded situation, there are six potential bases to advance teammates.

My opinion is that this stat would be much more informative than just recording the number of team-mates that scored - runs batted in - as a result of your hitting. Once on base, you also have the opportunity to be advanced by your teammates. So if you are on first, you have an opportunity to advance three bases. This is a measure of how good your teammates are at advancing you instead of just counting the number of times that you scored.

On a team level, BAT and BAR will be equal. Presumably, a higher average team will score more often or at the very least, be difficult to prevent them from scoring










[This message has been edited by Bag (edited 7/30/2003 1:11p).]
Horns11
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To answer Cajun's question, it's because the Sox have felt the pressure over the last couple seasons to pick up a regular 2nd baseman instead of a 3rd starter, with some misguided notion that a middle infielder would help take them to the playoffs better than a 3rd starter would.

Honestly, they could replace Walker with some no-name Dominican who hits .236 and gets 32 errors a year and as long as they picked up a halfway decent starter, their winning percentage would improve.

The reason for this is because everyone other than Lowe and Martinez have their quirks (and the Sox inability to raise pitchers in their farm system). Lowe got rocked early in the year but he's improved since. Wakefield always starts ok and teams seem to catch up to his butterfly knuckler as the season goes along. Mendoza was their worst pickup last offseason... he's not a starter and his only good game was his win over the Yankees a few weeks ago. Burkett isn't as bad as he was on the Rangers, but he's not as good as he was on the Braves, which is what the Sox hoped for. The Aggie pitchers (and I'm not saying this as a Horn fan... Fossum was one of the best college pitchers I ever saw in person) are expendable and best suited for middle reliever work at best, if not the minors.

If they can ditch Walker (or even Nixon... assuming it puts them in the playoffs and there's a chance Nixon could one day return to Boston) to get more wins from starters, I'm all for it.
CajunAg97
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I went to high school with Todd, that's why I'm partial to him! But that makes sense from a GM point of view. I just don't think they envisioned Mueller, Varitek, Walker, et al to have such good years...
OceanStateAg
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A lot of Sox fans expected this from Varitek. Last season was a down year for him because of the injury he was coming back from. The type of fracture he had in his elbow takes more than a year for rehab and full strength and motion to return.
CajunAg97
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I hear ya on Varitek. But haven't they been pleasantly surprised by Mueller, Ortiz and Kevin Millar's offense? This is my first year following the BoSox...
Horns11
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Ortiz was signed when the Millar to Japan situation was up in the air. Everyone expected him to play 1B/DH for 130 games and hit 80 RBIs. If Millar was to play with Boston, everyone assumed he would play like he did on Florida, hitting near .300 with over 20 HR. Mueller was expected to play well, but not nearly as well as he is.

Looks like the damn Rangers are going to take one from them tonight... thanks Ramiro Mendoza. Like I said... worst offseason pickup. Whatever starter Boston signs will push him back to a "every-5th-day" reliever.
Bag
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http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1587389.html
quote:
Boston believing in new Theo-logy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rob Neyer
ESPN.com


Just wanted to answer a couple of inquiries today, while at the same time I try to figure out how to ask Billy Beane -- I'll see him this weekend in Oakland -- why on earth he'd want to lock up Scott Hatteberg for two more seasons ...


Good morning, Rob.

I'll be the first to admit that I really like Phil Dumatrait, the minor-league pitcher traded to Cincy for Scott Williamson. That said, Theo Epstein has done an amazing job of improving the Red Sox with very limited prospects. The last two months the Sox have added Kim, Sauerbeck, Jones and now Williamson, and as best as I can tell, Dumatrait is the only real prospect that the Sox have dealt to get them. Is there another GM who has done a better job with trades this season? I think the Sox ownership has found a gem of a GM in Epstein!

-- Ryan Vachon



Theo Epstein has made an immediate impact.


Based on what we've seen since Epstein took over last winter, I'm inclined to agree. I'm not the biggest Todd Jones fan in the world, but Byung-Hyun Kim, Scott Sauerbeck, and Scott Williamson all are quality relievers.

When the season started, the standard criticisms of the Red Sox bullpen were 1) they had the wrong plan, or 2) they had the wrong pitchers, or 3) both.

Well, now they've got everybody else's plan and they've got a lot of the right pitchers, so it seems to me that if the Red Sox bullpen is not a strength down the stretch, then it's on the manager.

And you know, I don't really buy the notion that it's only now that Theo Epstein has proved his worth. In addition to building what now looks like a pretty good bullpen, isn't Epstein also the guy who, months ago, built a roster that's leading the major leagues in runs scored?

There's really not much more that Epstein can do. Sure, the Sox could use a quality starting pitcher, as neither John Burkett nor Ramiro Mendoza inspire great confidence these days. But whatever happens from this point forward, it's been a great first year for the youngest general manager in major-league history.







caption:"I am 28 years old, you killed my Red Socks, prepare to die...
CajunAg97
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Looks like Walker stays. But they did give up slick fielder Freddy Sanchez today...
Horns11
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Damn Todd Jones. The man had an 8 ERA when they brought him from Colorado. I could have hit a walkoff grand slam against that pitch. This was the kind of series the Sox needed to win.
OceanStateAg
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Acually Todd Jones uses special baseballs. They have a little blinking sign on them that says 'Hit Me... Hard..I go Far."
Wahoo Sam
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I have a feeling this will be the Red Sox year. Baseball is on the critical list- what better way to stir interest than to have the Red Sox go to the series and win. Red Sox over Cubs in 7. The fix is in.

Wahoo"always looking for a conspiracy"SamĀ®
Bag
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