After going around and around with the nearby city, our 40 acres of rural land will have a major sewer line cutting through the middle of the property, with a 60 foot wide easement and numerous raised concrete manhole covers. In addition to the easement itself, can we expect any monetary consideration from the city on the greatly reduced value of our land , since any future use/ development will be restricted? What should we expect? Should we have a lawyer on speed dial......

Yes, they will compensate. What city/area?

Some relevant info.

https://texags.com/forums/34/topics/3186116/replies/58859975

TxAG#2011 said:

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Yes, they will compensate. What city/area?

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Brazos County

The government will obviously pay for the value of the real estate that the line encroaches. Second, you should look into damages for the remainder. A good attorney, land planner and appraiser will help in this regard.

The eminent domain attorneys will work by the hour or on a contingency basis if the case is strong enough.

You 100% need an attorney and as BQ04 said above the concept of damage to the remainder is critical here. I've given testimony on the landowner side in a few Special Commissioners' hearings, which is a likely place this will end.

The appraisal that comes in purely on the raw land is not going to satisfy you based on the damage, inconvenience, and hit on future property value caused. Definitely heed advice above and get an attorney who specializes in this area.

Depends on highest and best use and whether any damages arise from the easement. You'll be compensated for the loss of rights but not necessarily for damages if the property can still be put to its highest and best use without any issue.

Make sure to included abatement in the contract regarding contamination. Especially if you have well water.

Hire an attorney for sure. Definitely see what options there are for an alignment that might leave the property easy to develop in the future. If they are bringing sewer thru there, developers won't be far behind. They might behind the reason for the sewer to begin with. I would also negotiate a commitment for sewer capacity for the property for any future development. Might try to include water if it doesn't have it adjacent already; assumes the utility provides both water and sewer. It will all bring value in the end....

Hope this helps.

get a lawyer , you will get multiples of what you'd get on your own

muleshoe said:

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Hire an attorney for sure. Definitely see what options there are for an alignment that might leave the property easy to develop in the future. If they are bringing sewer thru there, developers won't be far behind. They might behind the reason for the sewer to begin with. I would also negotiate a commitment for sewer capacity for the property for any future development. Might try to include water if it doesn't have it adjacent already; assumes the utility provides both water and sewer. It will all bring value in the end....

Hope this helps.

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To his point, not all compensation has to be monetary. See if you can trade for capacity, water availability and storm water capacity / conveyance for the highest and best use. Roads and driveways are another means of compensation that also add value to your property.

Please be sure to hire an attorney that specializes in eminent domain. You get what you pay for.

That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

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Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

My comment wasn't necessarily to fight, because I think that is a lost cause/$ as a individual land owner. The attorney is there to make sure you are not taken advantage of. You don't know, what you don't know. I would rather be upfront and tell them you are "open" to discussions....

Why are they building it? What is the long-term position/plan for utilities? Can future impact fees be waived in granting the easement?

If there is an overall map they can provide you, that will tell a story pretty quick....at least start to give you information to help you negotiate.

one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

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Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

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Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

---

Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

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Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

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Then the government doesn't get to buy them at gunpoint.

one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

---

Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

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Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

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Then the government doesn't get to buy them at gunpoint.

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So if there are no properties for sale the municipalities won't make infrastructure improvements until they're available? Trying to wrap my head around this innovative idea

I have on more than one occasion seen absurdly low appraisals used to bully a property owner to accept the current offer. This is a brutal game and the biggest winners are the condemnor's attorneys and appraisers getting fat and happy on taxpayer money. Get an attorney.

While the process CAN be fair and the final proceeds can definitely be fair market value.. never assume any government, nor those who represent them, have "fair" or your best interest in mind.

He doesn't like his public utilities or roadways. Most people are just ignorant to the fact that the condemnation process isn't a big scam to steal land. The idea that they lowball is asinine. The cost of land acquisition is a small percentage of an overall project cost. They would rather pay a premium to get the project moving faster because reducing project time saves way more money. You can disagree with the value opinion and damages, but the idea that they'll lowball you isn't based in reality.

DallasGrad18 said:

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He doesn't like his public utilities or roadways. Most people are just ignorant to the fact that the condemnation process isn't a big scam to steal land. The idea that they lowball is asinine. The cost of land acquisition is a small percentage of an overall project cost. They would rather pay a premium to get the project moving faster because reducing project time saves way more money. You can disagree with the value opinion and damages, but the idea that they'll lowball you isn't based in reality.

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That depends on where the land is and its highest and best use.

In this case, you are probably right. But there are cases where the land's highest and best use (at this time.. so not consistent with the appraisal practical definition of the word) is actually to continue to hold it as development stretches out toward it and values continue to rise. In 5 years the land could be worth double what the fair market value, or even a slight premium above it, would be today. And the project's development cost would not rise by the same % increase over the same time frame.

I don't know who you work for to paint such a rosy picture of the eminent domain process. I've seen two friends go through hell trying to get a fair value for land taken by new roads and road expansions. One road extension was going to go right through a machine shop. You think the local government was going to compensate him fairly for time/hassle/lost opportunity cost of building a new building and moving machines? Guy made his living selling parts to offshore platforms on an emergency basis. You think Shell/Chevron/Exxon gives a rip about his land dispute? You think the local government is going to throw another 100k to offset his losses because he can't deliver?

Were not even getting into how eminent domain has been expanded over the past few decades to include 'economic improvement.' Or even common carrier status exploitation for things like the stupid high speed rail.

If a government authority wants land, they should have to pay for it. If no one wants to sell, better start offering more or finding another way.

And in todays world, its not like an authority is demanding any right of way that is theoretically 'necessary and critical.' Its all roads to ever expanding suburbia and dealing with the traffic that it causes. Your county hospital wings and city halls are already platted out.

TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

---

Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

---

Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

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Then the government doesn't get to buy them at gunpoint.

---

So if there are no properties for sale the municipalities won't make infrastructure improvements until they're available? Trying to wrap my head around this innovative idea

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You mean you can't wrap your head around having two parties come to an agreement that both parties are happy with? Like a business transaction?

Most local governments don't give a rip about spending taxpayer money. Above or below, it's someone else's money so who cares.

I would be a ton more suspicious of the railroads, electrical, and other for-profit condemnation powers.

one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

---

Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

---

Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

---

Then the government doesn't get to buy them at gunpoint.

---

So if there are no properties for sale the municipalities won't make infrastructure improvements until they're available? Trying to wrap my head around this innovative idea

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You mean you can't wrap your head around having two parties come to an agreement that both parties are happy with? Like a business transaction?

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I've met enough delusional property owners to know this is just wishful thinking.

I'm not painting a rosy picture, I'm just telling you what happens. Are there situations that are unfair and inconvenient? Absolutely. But the idea that people are lowballed and screwed every step along the way just isn't true. The government sucks to work with and is inefficient, but it has nothing to do with appraisers. They have a job, and that is to provide an opinion of value based on compensable criteria. There are obviously noncompensable aspects that are tough to deal with. All I'm saying is don't shoot the messenger. Trying to place blame on appraisers is ridiculous. They operate within a pretty strict system.

TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

---

Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

---

Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

---

Then the government doesn't get to buy them at gunpoint.

---

So if there are no properties for sale the municipalities won't make infrastructure improvements until they're available? Trying to wrap my head around this innovative idea

---

You mean you can't wrap your head around having two parties come to an agreement that both parties are happy with? Like a business transaction?

---

I've met enough delusional property owners to know this is just wishful thinking.

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Delusional thinking?

It's called economics. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it with a seller who is willing to part with it at that price. The end.

That's why we have appraisers and high paid attorneys who handle these things. Someone isn't willing to part with it, but the government is still allowed to take it. There's nothing free market about eminent domain. The problem arises when the government is allowed through litigation to weasel out of things that decide value and compensate an owner properly (opportunity cost, speculation land plays, etc).

But this thought that just because the government wants something, they can have it, and whatever price is deemed at the time makes it worthwhile, is the true delusional thinking. There are endless factors that can make up what someone think's the value of their land is. And it's nobody's business whether they are justified or not. They weren't the ones who initiated the transaction.

I agree with you on this. I just don't agree with the sentiment that attorney = more money. Given the property type, it's probably worthwhile to negotiate the layout, driveways, restrictions, etc.

I think you're getting confused as to which thread you're replying to me on.

We've got two conversations going on across two separate threads. On the other thread, you defend appraisers terrible approach and reputation when it comes to home real estate purchases. On this thread you're defending the governments right to not pay full market value for eminent domain. Tangentially related to bad appraisals.

My bad. They go hand in hand, though, from the compensation standpoint.

mazag08 said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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DallasGrad18 said:

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That's not necessarily true. It depends on the commissioners in the county. Eminent domain appraisals usually give the landowner the benefit of the doubt on questions of whether to compensate because TxDOT would rather pay more up front to avoid the costs of litigation. I have seen hiring lawyers work with favorable commissioners, but I have also seen it fail because they have a tendency to make outlandish demands that annoy the commissioners. If you don't get a substantial increase in reward, then you just waste time and owe legal fees. Consult a lawyer if you think the offered amount is wrong, but the idea that they're lowballing you to steal your land is ridiculous. They'll probably offer you more compensation than you could expect to receive on the open market.

And don't expect "multiples." That almost never is the case.

---

Whatever entity that benefits from eminent domain has an incentive to lowball. First for direct monetary benefit to the cost of a project and second to have room to come up in a negotiated agreement.

Whatever a local government thinks is fair market value isn't truly fair market value. If it was, they wouldn't be invoking eminent domain but buying on the open market.

---

Don't think this is accurate at all. Some properties aren't on the open market... then what?

---

Then the government doesn't get to buy them at gunpoint.

---

So if there are no properties for sale the municipalities won't make infrastructure improvements until they're available? Trying to wrap my head around this innovative idea

---

You mean you can't wrap your head around having two parties come to an agreement that both parties are happy with? Like a business transaction?

---

I've met enough delusional property owners to know this is just wishful thinking.

---

Delusional thinking?

It's called economics. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it with a seller who is willing to part with it at that price. The end.

That's why we have appraisers and high paid attorneys who handle these things. Someone isn't willing to part with it, but the government is still allowed to take it. There's nothing free market about eminent domain. The problem arises when the government is allowed through litigation to weasel out of things that decide value and compensate an owner properly (opportunity cost, speculation land plays, etc).

But this thought that just because the government wants something, they can have it, and whatever price is deemed at the time makes it worthwhile, is the true delusional thinking. There are endless factors that can make up what someone think's the value of their land is. And it's nobody's business whether they are justified or not. They weren't the ones who initiated the transaction.

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This isn't what I'm arguing at all. Just why condemnation needed in the first place.

Gotcha.

Did you at least enjoy my rant?

mazag08 said:

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Gotcha.

Did you at least enjoy my rant?

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Yes yes I did. Tough issue for sure. I always tried to be 100% fair on the taking deals I did back in the day.

Unfortunately the compensation is only for the real estate. There's no monetary consideration for the complete PITA it is.

In my experience, the govt absolutely low balls the value. Without a doubt in my mind. The appraisers know who they work for, their "comps" shape the argument to the same ends.

Personal opinion, but no government should have the ability to forcibly take or adversely condemn land from a private party. Compensation or not.