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This could get interesting. Travis County Appraisel district barred from MLS sales

4,711 Views | 44 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by cjsag94
SteveBott
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AG
https://epaper.statesman.com/popovers/dynamic_article_popover.aspx?guid=bfabb486-3fe8-448d-b70d-785f9c2ac177&pbid=0bd3b62f-2574-4676-88da-58d1361460ab&utm_source=app.pagesuite&utm_medium=app-interaction&utm_campaign=pagesuite-epaper-html5_share-article&fbclid=IwAR2uHMZT2GxVKclQRzpYtuugmnq1zkZ3HYUxs3aJ3OCUvd0UvrlAuibxpuk

Sorry for the long link
Maroonedinaustin
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Interesting to see if other counties follow suit. This could be catastrophic for education.
SteveBott
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My point but you said it better
ElephantRider
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"TCAD obtains sales price data that homeowners provide willingly."

Not Travis County, but when my CAD sent me a letter asking for the sale price of the home I purchased last year, I ignored it (until they guessed too high, then I gave them the information). I don't know if relying on the homeowners to provide the data can be relied on.
sawthemoffxx
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Maroonedinaustin said:

Interesting to see if other counties follow suit. This could be catastrophic for education.
Texas will become full disclosure if this gains traction.
Diggity
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Yeah, this is BS. There is no way there are enough people volunteering their sales price data to give the CAD's a reliable metric.

Quote:

"TCAD obtains sales price data that homeowners provide willingly. TCAD can create statistically sound models for the bulk appraisal of residential property using the rendered data they collect. ...

I'm not weeping for the taxing authorities because it feels like property tax bills are going up a lot faster than people's incomes. At some point, they need to learn to control their damn spending.
p_bubel
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These ridiculously expensive Leed Certified Middle Schools aren't going to build themselves.
{Rolls eyes}
mazag08
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Thanks to Paul Bettencourt and R's in the Texas senate we will be getting some tax relief this year. Tax revenue growth for existing improved property within the tax base will be capped at 3.5%. New tax rate growth caps will be in effect as well. I think you'll ultimately see rates come down, even if assessed values continue to rise. This doesn't mean an individual property won't have a huge tax jump, just that the overall market is now capped.
TXTransplant
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I hate the CAD's shady/erratic appraisals as much as anyone, but how are we supposed to have any expectation or hope that the CADs will even attempt to accurately appraise homes if they can't use MLS data?

This just puts the onus on homeowners to get the MLS data and hold the CAD accountable every year. That is too one-sided for my comfort.
mazag08
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They could try the cost approach, using functional obsolescence and depreciation based on year built. But that's infinitely more time consuming and leaves a lot of room for error and miscalculation, and they would likely still lack available information on what components each and every property comprise.
TXTransplant
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mazag08 said:

They could try the cost approach, using functional obsolescence and depreciation based on year built. But that's infinitely more time consuming and leaves a lot of room for error and miscalculation, and they would likely still lack available information on what components each and every property comprise.


I follow that approach in theory. But does it work when there is a lot of new construction or when demand/appreciation is so high that even dumps are selling for top-dollar?

In my immediate area, new construction always comes with a premium, but comparable resales that are a few years old never sell for as much per square foot. And then there are the houses that need major renovation but sell for top dollar simply because they back up to a golf course.

I've had mixed experiences with CADs valuing land. HCAD does value lots differently depending on size, what it backs up to, etc. But my experience in Brazos county was that they valued all of the lots in my 'hood the same, regardless of size or whether they backed up to the highway or a green space.
Bob_Ag
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ABOR owns their MLS and allows access at their discretion. Nothing TCAD can do about it.

I can understand the concern of not having market data, but the fact is we are a non-disclosure state and its unethical to let counties have access to the information. It kind of defeats the whole point of non-disclosure.
Deats99
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Bob_Ag said:

ABOR owns their MLS and allows access at their discretion. Nothing TCAD can do about it.

I can understand the concern of not having market data, but the fact is we are a non-disclosure state and its unethical to let counties have access to the information. It kind of defeats the whole point of non-disclosure.
Thank you. All I heard is "we want the data you collect from your members and have been doing it in an manner that is outside of the scope of whatever contract we signed with CoreLogic"

I have no love for the MLS and their BS fees, but by god if the CAD wants the data, let them get it legally.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
mazag08
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How about, if you can't find data to support an increase in valuation, then the assessed value stays put.
SteveBott
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In your dreams. That ain't happening
SteveBott
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and to expand my thoughts. ABOR releases yearly value increases of the total market. It free and public. ACAD just takes that increase, running 6-8% per year, and just applies that data to every home in Travis. Then they use that as their defense and tell homeowners "prove us wrong ".

They don't want the dispute workload but they may have no choice. And of course they would want a dramatic increase in head count so welcome more expenses and taxes
aggie appraiser
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The problem is that taxes are based on the value of property. There is no good reason it should be structured in this manner; except they can significantly increase taxation and pass the blame on "the market".

My last home jumped in value from about $160,000 to $290,000 in 4 or 5 years. That's a taxable value of $4,800 per year when I purchased it and $8,700 per year for the new owners in their first year of ownership. An 80% increase in taxes for one property in 5 years. How in the hell can they need an increase of 16% per year? This doesn't include the massive amount of new construction of commercial and residential property in the area taking incredible amounts of agricultural land which pays almost no tax out of production and into a much higher value AND tax rate.

There is no way in hell anyone would stand for these types of massive increases in taxation without this asinine tax structure which bases taxation on the value of a property. It takes nothing into account for those who are using the most services, is not tied to income or even wealth, and only provides a means of the taxing authority to bilk the taxpayers.

This entire process needs to be scrapped and a more equitable method of assessing taxes needs to be developed.
SteveBott
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You do understand tax rate correct? Value is only half the equation.
normaleagle05
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SteveBott said:

You do understand tax rate correct? Value is only half the equation.


City of Garland said:

PROPOSED TAX RATE $0.769600 per $100
PRECEDING YEAR'S TAX RATE $0.704600 per $100


Yeah, but when you're getting this in the mail.
mazag08
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SteveBott said:

In your dreams. That ain't happening


Well with that attitude..
mazag08
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SteveBott said:

You do understand tax rate correct? Value is only half the equation.


Which is why Bettencourts work in Congress is going to be huge. Tax rates will be growing a lot slower and might even back up a bit. School districts should be coming in lower this year than last.
Shooter McGavin
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If the high value properties were assessed and taxed at their true value, there would not be as much pressure on the $100-600k properties.

I appraise lots of high value homes. They are at 70-80% of value while my house is near 100%

Total BS
aggie appraiser
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Shooter McGavin said:

If the high value properties were assessed and taxed at their true value, there would not be as much pressure on the $100-600k properties.

I appraise lots of high value homes. They are at 70-80% of value while my house is near 100%

Total BS

Those high value homes are paying $30-40,0000 dollars per year and more. It's absolutely ridiculous. How in the world is that an equitable distribution of taxation?
aggie appraiser
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SteveBott said:

You do understand tax rate correct? Value is only half the equation.

I think so. I look at them every day.
Hendrix
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texas commercial needs to be full disclosure.
SteveBott
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Yes sir
aggiejumper
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Why do you say commercial needs disclosure? Why do we need any disclosure in the first place? The appraisal districts seem to be doing just fine and the counties seem to be collecting enough to support themselves.
aggieforester05
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RSP715 said:

texas commercial needs to be full disclosure.


It's certainly a pain in the ass to get commercial comps unless you pay $600+ a month for a costar subscription.
mazag08
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aggieforester05 said:

RSP715 said:

texas commercial needs to be full disclosure.


It's certainly a pain in the ass to get commercial comps unless you pay $600+ a month for a costar subscription.


And that doesn't get you **** because the majority of commercial owners hang up when costar calls
Rexter
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Maybe there should be full disclosure on all sales and construction numbers to set a base value. Then the annual increase should be tied to inflation or whatever and capped at 2% or so. When the property sells again, then the base is the new sales price. Budgetary growth for the taxing entities would come from new construction and resales. This would force the entities to live within their means. If there is negative growth, then the entities have to tighten up just like the tax base, instead of raising values to maintain current expenditures.
Diggity
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Basically California. Lots of of unintended consequences there.
one MEEN Ag
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aggiejumper said:

Why do you say commercial needs disclosure? Why do we need any disclosure in the first place? The appraisal districts seem to be doing just fine and the counties seem to be collecting enough to support themselves.


Taxing Residential has been easy pickings compared to getting information/compliance out of commercial buildings. Businesses have higher tax bills, more money to spend on lawyers and comps, and have to be settled in front of a tax judge, not your kangaroo court hearing.

So residential buildings have been hammered because they don't have the ability to fight nearly as much as businesses. Commercial definitely underpays compared to residential. It's also harder to tease out the value of the land compared to the value of the business. So get a rate that doesn't make commercial squeal too much and soak the residents.

There's a newer trend in commercial appraisal for big box retailers in strip centers to say their current real estate value is literally the land value minus the demolishing costs. They quote recession era data that shows how hard it was to sell the land once retailers pulled out (remember, you have to evaluate the land cost not the businesses value). Court cases have generally backed up the practice. I think it's called 'dark appraisal or dark listing price.'

I know for a fact hospitals do this. They claim a hospital is useless after 30 years. Everything has been fully depreciated and the building's technology is functionally obsolete. What can you turn an old hospital into? Nothing. It's torn down.

So in general, all of these big businesses have tons of fire power to tell a county's appraisal district to 'pound sand, I'll see you in court.' While residents do not. So yeah our rates go up 10% and were told to like it.
SteveBott
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What Meen said is spot on. Commercial way underpays their fair share.

Look at it this way 10-15% of your taxes are subsidizing commercial realty owners
HTownAg98
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This is something I struggle with when appraising something subject to an absolute net lease that is corporate backed, and I have to get to a fee simple value. There's a lot of value in that lease, and pulling that out is really difficult. We've started getting actual construction costs and applying depreciation and adding the land value. Of course, the landowner screams bloody murder because it's so much lower, but I didn't make the rules.
sawthemoffxx
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Yea I've seen some ridiculous rental rates on those single tenant net lease buildings, far exceeding a typical return on cost for any other property types. I am not sure how developers are getting them to sign leases that high.
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