Business & Investing
Sponsored by

Vacation days expectation

4,873 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by StockHorseAg
Im Gipper
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What's the going trend these days?

New hire?
5 year?
10 year?


Thanks!



I'm Gipper
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
At least 3weeks, 5 weeks, 6/7 weeks

That being said I've seen so many companies move to unlimited vacation which is a complete farce
chris1515
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have unlimited PTO but track in a spreadsheet with a target of 5 weeks.

Plus, thanks to the concept of "unlimited" pto, my company has scaled back on company holidays.

Specific to the OP, I'd say 2-3 weeks for a new hire, and work up to 4-5 for a veteran. Say, after 3 years.

At some point, even if you're "off" you still better be checking the cell phone.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I don't even know what my vacation is. I think it's 5 weeks but I don't remotely take that.

My brother just got unlimited PTO at his new gig.
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Is it truly unlimited though?
Brian Earl Spilner
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Unlimited PTO is never that.

Most people will only ever take 4-5 weeks tops. And the few that try to go over will be unlikely to get it approved.
EliteZags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
unlimited ends up actually being a better deal for corporations since psychologically many like myself would feel increased guilt for days taken and end up taking less than they would if they had a set use it/lose it (or capped accumulation) amount where there's instilled some obligation to take the time off since it's the amount already allotted, versus with unlimited the feeling of not wanting to take more than really necessary.
so the guilt tripped would usually outweigh those that have the balls to take more than the standard

Petrino1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Most places Ive worked at have been 3 weeks for entry level hires, and 4-5 weeks for experienced hires.
Ranger1743
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
For federal employees it's

2.6 weeks from 0-3 years
3.9 weeks from 3-15 years
5.2 weeks 15 years+

Decimals since it's based on hours, not days.

Everyone gets 2.6 weeks sick per year on top of that.
Sims
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
rolo said:

At least 3weeks, 5 weeks, 6/7 weeks

That being said I've seen so many companies move to unlimited vacation which is a complete farce
Unlimited vacation is a balance sheet liability win for the employer. It really didn't have much to do at all with actually determining the amount of vacation employees would take.
The Catfish
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
At a large O&G company I worked for it was:

New hire (college): 2 weeks
5 years: 3 weeks
10 years: 4 weeks
20 years: 5 weeks
30+ years: 6 weeks

Experienced hires were credited for their prior work experience for related/relevant work so they would start with vacation equivalent to their years of experience.
El Chupacabra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The Catfish said:

At a large O&G company I worked for it was:

New hire (college): 2 weeks
5 years: 3 weeks
10 years: 4 weeks
20 years: 5 weeks
30+ years: 6 weeks

Experienced hires were credited for their prior work experience for related/relevant work so they would start with vacation equivalent to their years of experience.
Same for me...for the O&G company I used to work for.

I believe they bumped the new hires to 3weeks, which pissed off a lot of current employees that didn't get anything. But they walked me out the door prior to those changes taking effect.

My current company (small O&G, large ag) gave me 24 vacation days and 3 floating holidays with 20 years experience (and my PTO is pretty loose...I'm 'off' today but taking care of new month/quarter contracts, but Friday July 5 is not a holiday, but I get the day off w/out using PTO).
TXTransplant
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm not in O&G, but I am in chemicals, and our policy is similar to the two previous posts.

I've been with the company almost 12 years, but I got credit for time served in my two previous careers. I hit 20 years of relevant experience this year, so I now have 200 hours. We can also carry over a max of 80 hours each year. Years 10-19 was 160 hours; 5-9 is 120 hours, and 1-4 is 80 hours. You get your extra hours on Jan 1 of the year you hit your milestone, regardless of your hire date.

I started work right at the end of December and was given a full two weeks, which I almost immediately carried over. And I've carried over 80 hours every year since I've been here. The company no longer allows this, and vacation is prorated the first year, depending on your start date.

This is one of the biggest perks of my job. I can take my vacation with no issues or pushback. I'm debating only carrying over 1 week going forward (at least until I get close to retiring and vacationing out).
AgsMyDude
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
chris1515 said:


At some point, even if you're "off" you still better be checking the cell phone.


Absolutely not.
htxag09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Been in O&G my entire 14 year career. A few different companies.

My current company is by far the best I've been at and I get 5 weeks (want to stay 5 weeks starts at 10 years here).

Everywhere else I've worked was similar to the last few posts, most I've had before this was 3 weeks.
Hoyt Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have 5 weeks, 20 years in a energy career. I negotiated more PTO when I took this role for the offered salary. I also get comp time from turnarounds. I take most of it each year, I damn sure earned it.
AgOutsideAustin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
New hires getting two weeks lol, us olds used to have to work a year before you had any vacation.
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
lol man two weeks isn't even a lot in retrospect. The fact you had zero days is criminal
LMCane
How long do you want to ignore this user?
when I started in the corporate world 20 years ago it was only 2 weeks.

but Lockheed had a "mandatory" vacation break between christmas and new years so basically it was three weeks vacation but you could only choose two.

I think 3 weeks is pretty standard now.
bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Unlimited PTO is such a crock. Lazy leadership and management.
EliteZags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
when my old startup was bought by Medtronic they gave us 5 weeks at 5yr mark, but that included sick days which I prefer cus I tend to never end up taking any otherwise

now at a smaller startup we get the standard 3 weeks, plus 1wk sick time, then Christmas/NY week shutdown
Aggie118
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My company offers 5 business days off after working a full 12 months.
hedge
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That's really bad
Dr. Horrible
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bagger05 said:

Unlimited PTO is such a crock. Lazy leadership and management.
My new job has "unlimited" PTO, and love it so far... Less stress and worrying about do I have enough days for X or Y... Or do I have to use vacation because something went sideways at the house. Just talk to my boss and tell him when I'll be out, work together to make sure everything is covered, make sure the "ship can still sail".
bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Dr. Horrible said:

bagger05 said:

Unlimited PTO is such a crock. Lazy leadership and management.
My new job has "unlimited" PTO, and love it so far... Less stress and worrying about do I have enough days for X or Y... Or do I have to use vacation because something went sideways at the house. Just talk to my boss and tell him when I'll be out, work together to make sure everything is covered, make sure the "ship can still sail".
Here's my beef.

Unlimited PTO is not actually a thing. There is some amount of time that you can request off where the answer is no.

Intuitively, everyone understands this. You can't take off the entire year of 2025 and still get paid. Every "unlimited PTO" policy that I've ever seen is governed by a set of unwritten rules that actually look a lot like a normal vacation policy. And instead of writing down these unwritten rules and giving it to you in your offer letter, you get to spend a year or two feeling anxious about taking time off while you figure out what the boundaries are.

So why not write it down? I think the answer is usually for some balance sheet reason or "everyone else is doing it so we have to as well." Not "we love our employees."


The root cause of almost all dissatisfaction at work is a lack of clarity and alignment on expectations. Unlimited PTO policies make one of the most important things about your comp/benefits package confusing by design.

My friends with unlimited PTO don't take as much time off as people with well-designed vacation policies. Or if they do, they're not REALLY on vacation - they're working a lot less but at the beach. And they often feel guilty about being gone.


Another observation of friends with unlimited PTO -- the employer does have an unstated expectation of what's an appropriate amount of time to be off. If you try to take more than that, your manager will address it with you. If you take less than that, they're fine with it.


I'm 100% pro-flexibility for stuff like you described for exempt employees. Plumber coming to the house, dog needs to go to the vet, long lunch with your college buddy that's in town, came down with a stomach bug... coordinate with your manager.

But for vacation time, I like the policy of give people a lot every year and use it or lose it.
insulator_king
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ranger1743 said:

For federal employees it's

2.6 weeks from 0-3 years
3.9 weeks from 3-15 years
5.2 weeks 15 years+

Decimals since it's based on hours, not days.

Everyone gets 2.6 weeks sick per year on top of that.

Regular GS federal employees can carry over 240 hours every Calendar year, which is 6 weeks.
Dr. Doctor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Don't know if mentioned or not, but if you don't have a PTO bank, you don't have to get paid out. Not that everyone pays out PTO, but at other companies i worked for, the bank was reduced from 400 to 300 to 200 hours due to cash liabilities.

So moving to unlimited PTO means you don't have to hold onto cash to find the possibility of people leaving and needing to pay out. If you pay out.

~egon
Sims
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bagger05 said:

Dr. Horrible said:

bagger05 said:

Unlimited PTO is such a crock. Lazy leadership and management.
My new job has "unlimited" PTO, and love it so far... Less stress and worrying about do I have enough days for X or Y... Or do I have to use vacation because something went sideways at the house. Just talk to my boss and tell him when I'll be out, work together to make sure everything is covered, make sure the "ship can still sail".
Here's my beef.

Unlimited PTO is not actually a thing. There is some amount of time that you can request off where the answer is no.

Intuitively, everyone understands this. You can't take off the entire year of 2025 and still get paid. Every "unlimited PTO" policy that I've ever seen is governed by a set of unwritten rules that actually look a lot like a normal vacation policy. And instead of writing down these unwritten rules and giving it to you in your offer letter, you get to spend a year or two feeling anxious about taking time off while you figure out what the boundaries are.

So why not write it down? I think the answer is usually for some balance sheet reason or "everyone else is doing it so we have to as well." Not "we love our employees."


The root cause of almost all dissatisfaction at work is a lack of clarity and alignment on expectations. Unlimited PTO policies make one of the most important things about your comp/benefits package confusing by design.

My friends with unlimited PTO don't take as much time off as people with well-designed vacation policies. Or if they do, they're not REALLY on vacation - they're working a lot less but at the beach. And they often feel guilty about being gone.


Another observation of friends with unlimited PTO -- the employer does have an unstated expectation of what's an appropriate amount of time to be off. If you try to take more than that, your manager will address it with you. If you take less than that, they're fine with it.


I'm 100% pro-flexibility for stuff like you described for exempt employees. Plumber coming to the house, dog needs to go to the vet, long lunch with your college buddy that's in town, came down with a stomach bug... coordinate with your manager.

But for vacation time, I like the policy of give people a lot every year and use it or lose it.
So why not write it down? I think the answer is usually for some balance sheet reason or "everyone else is doing it so we have to as well." Not "we love our employees."

The rest is convenient messaging and all of the examples and observations you give are accurate but the reason why companies do this is absolutely as it relates to the balance sheet liability accrued time off creates.

There are two diff liabilities in question:

1) As employees bank PTO, more than just having to record how many hours/days they have to take off, companies have to additionally expense the cost of that PTO as it is earned. This impacts current earnings negatively. That amount of money spread over thousands of employees is a material expense.

2) When employees use banked PTO as a golden parachute when they separate from the job. Oh, you're firing me? Well, you're gonna have to cut me a check for $42,000 because I have 3 months of vacation booked. I'm not saying it's wrong, I've done it...but the company doesn't enjoy writing huge checks to separate from an employee.

Now the move to unlimited PTO means both of those two items are moot as 1) there is no accrued PTO to expense in the current period as it is expensed when the employee actually takes the time off and 2) there is no banked amount of PTO to which an employer is obligated to pay to the separating employee.
bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I live in the world of relatively small entrepreneurial companies. In that space the balance sheet and cash management concerns aren't as big of a deal.

I agree that for big companies the financials are the reason. For smaller companies, I see some people going to unlimited PTO as a (misguided) recruiting tool.
The Catfish
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The company I used to work (referenced above) mitigated some of this with some changes to the policy right before I left. For most of my career there you got all of your vacation up front on January 1st and would be paid out for any unused time if you separated from the company. They changed it to where you accrue vacation ratably through the year for separation pay in lieu only. Essentially, you could still use your entire annual entitlement at any point in the year, but if you separated from the company, you were only eligible to be paid out for unused accrued days. I think you may have even had to pay them back if you used more than you accrued at separation or something, but don't recall exactly how it was all worded.
EliteZags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
hadn't really thought about it but for those close to FIRE would make sense to take their final gig at a company with unlimited PTO, that way when ready just keep taking paid time off til they fire/lay you off
Furlock Bones
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Now that is genius.
chris1515
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sims said:

bagger05 said:

Dr. Horrible said:

bagger05 said:

Unlimited PTO is such a crock. Lazy leadership and management.
My new job has "unlimited" PTO, and love it so far... Less stress and worrying about do I have enough days for X or Y... Or do I have to use vacation because something went sideways at the house. Just talk to my boss and tell him when I'll be out, work together to make sure everything is covered, make sure the "ship can still sail".
Here's my beef.

Unlimited PTO is not actually a thing. There is some amount of time that you can request off where the answer is no.

Intuitively, everyone understands this. You can't take off the entire year of 2025 and still get paid. Every "unlimited PTO" policy that I've ever seen is governed by a set of unwritten rules that actually look a lot like a normal vacation policy. And instead of writing down these unwritten rules and giving it to you in your offer letter, you get to spend a year or two feeling anxious about taking time off while you figure out what the boundaries are.

So why not write it down? I think the answer is usually for some balance sheet reason or "everyone else is doing it so we have to as well." Not "we love our employees."


The root cause of almost all dissatisfaction at work is a lack of clarity and alignment on expectations. Unlimited PTO policies make one of the most important things about your comp/benefits package confusing by design.

My friends with unlimited PTO don't take as much time off as people with well-designed vacation policies. Or if they do, they're not REALLY on vacation - they're working a lot less but at the beach. And they often feel guilty about being gone.


Another observation of friends with unlimited PTO -- the employer does have an unstated expectation of what's an appropriate amount of time to be off. If you try to take more than that, your manager will address it with you. If you take less than that, they're fine with it.


I'm 100% pro-flexibility for stuff like you described for exempt employees. Plumber coming to the house, dog needs to go to the vet, long lunch with your college buddy that's in town, came down with a stomach bug... coordinate with your manager.

But for vacation time, I like the policy of give people a lot every year and use it or lose it.
So why not write it down? I think the answer is usually for some balance sheet reason or "everyone else is doing it so we have to as well." Not "we love our employees."

The rest is convenient messaging and all of the examples and observations you give are accurate but the reason why companies do this is absolutely as it relates to the balance sheet liability accrued time off creates.

There are two diff liabilities in question:

1) As employees bank PTO, more than just having to record how many hours/days they have to take off, companies have to additionally expense the cost of that PTO as it is earned. This impacts current earnings negatively. That amount of money spread over thousands of employees is a material expense.

2) When employees use banked PTO as a golden parachute when they separate from the job. Oh, you're firing me? Well, you're gonna have to cut me a check for $42,000 because I have 3 months of vacation booked. I'm not saying it's wrong, I've done it...but the company doesn't enjoy writing huge checks to separate from an employee.

Now the move to unlimited PTO means both of those two items are moot as 1) there is no accrued PTO to expense in the current period as it is expensed when the employee actually takes the time off and 2) there is no banked amount of PTO to which an employer is obligated to pay to the separating employee.


Nailed it.
beerad12man
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
chris1515 said:

I have unlimited PTO but track in a spreadsheet with a target of 5 weeks.

Plus, thanks to the concept of "unlimited" pto, my company has scaled back on company holidays.

Specific to the OP, I'd say 2-3 weeks for a new hire, and work up to 4-5 for a veteran. Say, after 3 years.

At some point, even if you're "off" you still better be checking the cell phone.


That's the mentality that has Americans lower on the happiness scale than many countries despite more money. An unfulfilling life where you are always on call, and can't leave work. All for most to buy materialistic things, live paycheck to paycheck, just keep up with the joneses.

Actual freedom, legitimate time off disconnected from work, etc, is worth its weight in gold and something we should fight for more of. I'm a capitalist, but also realize the evil behind it when many think this way and expect you to, as well. Rather than merely live below your means and take on less responsibility with more actual freedom leading to more actual happiness.
TexasAggie_97
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
0-5 years is 2 weeks
5-10 years is 3 weeks
10-17 years is 4 weeks
17+ is 5 weeks

We also get 8 sick days that can be used for whatever and 2 floating holidays and 5 holidays.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.