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U.S.-Saudi Petrodollar Pact Ends after 50 Years

2,556 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 5 mo ago by carl spacklers hat
insulator_king
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AG
Saw this posted in the Oil thread.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/us-saudi-petrodollar-pact-ends-after-50-years

Could be a really important change over the next few years, think it might lead to an unwinding of the USD as worlds reserve currency? Over the long term [10 years] anyway.
TTUArmy
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Hopefully, there will be a push to produce, maybe even export, more of our own oil. Petroleum engineers and geologists rejoice.
ChoppinDs40
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AG
https://www.marke****ch.com/amp/story/reports-of-the-petrodollar-systems-demise-are-fake-news-heres-why-4e712804
TTUArmy
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ChoppinDs40 said:

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/reports-of-the-petrodollar-systems-demise-are-fake-news-heres-why-4e712804


You have to admit that our relationship with OPEC isn't great. Biden did a pretty bang up job of dumping the SPR during the 2022 election after going hat in hand to the Saudis for more oil, threatening US oil executives, sanctioning Russia then stealing the interest on their US treasuries to help Ukraine. From a business stand point, that's not a good look for us.

One of the main reasons we have capital in flows from other countries is due to our adherence to law, order, and security. Under this administration, I don't believe we give our global business partners much reason to believe we are good for it anymore. In fact, it looks like many are pulling out of the dollar, even though they will get economically punished for it. Kind of ripping the bandaid off, so to speak. The only thing propping up our economy now is the EU, who happens to be buying the lion's share of grandma Yellen's treasuries because the US government needs money to keep the war machines running here, Ukraine, and Israel.

Are we off the petrodollar...no. Are we still the best looking nag at the glue factory...yes. This admin sure isn't doing much to maintain it's relevance in world markets. I'd say they are doing more to hurt the dollar. And why wouldn't they when they have an idiot who wrote the book "King Dollar No More" as Biden's chief economic counselor whispering in his ear.
jagvocate
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AG
The petrodollar scheme was simple: we gave military aid to Saudi Arabia ("SA") and protected its interests militarily, and they made people buy their oil in dollars.

With SA accepting currencies for oil that are not dollars, there will be less need internationally for dollars to purchase oil from SA. As demand for dollars goes down, prices of goods for people that transact in dollars (you and me) will go up.

Could be a little, could be a lot someday.

Sound money and fiscal responsibility as intended by our Constitution and founding fathers would make this irrelevant--but we have allowed our nation to drift FAR off such a course.

ChoppinDs40
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AG
TTUArmy said:

ChoppinDs40 said:

https://www.marke****ch.com/amp/story/reports-of-the-petrodollar-systems-demise-are-fake-news-heres-why-4e712804


You have to admit that our relationship with OPEC isn't great. Biden did a pretty bang up job of dumping the SPR during the 2022 election after going hat in hand to the Saudis for more oil, threatening US oil executives, sanctioning Russia then stealing the interest on their US treasuries to help Ukraine. From a business stand point, that's not a good look for us.

One of the main reasons we have capital in flows from other countries is due to our adherence to law, order, and security. Under this administration, I don't believe we give our global business partners much reason to believe we are good for it anymore. In fact, it looks like many are pulling out of the dollar, even though they will get economically punished for it. Kind of ripping the bandaid off, so to speak. The only thing propping up our economy now is the EU, who happens to be buying the lion's share of grandma Yellen's treasuries because the US government needs money to keep the war machines running here, Ukraine, and Israel.

Are we off the petrodollar...no. Are we still the best looking nag at the glue factory...yes. This admin sure isn't doing much to maintain it's relevance in world markets. I'd say they are doing more to hurt the dollar. And why wouldn't they when they have an idiot who wrote the book "King Dollar No More" as Biden's chief economic counselor whispering in his ear.


Oh I agree completely but it's not like the clock struck midnight all of a sudden and oil is bought and sold in bitcoin, which is what some people are lead to believe.

The truth is your point that the petrodollar, at the time, really propped up the dollar when moving off fiat. Now, the dollar is propped up because we are the tallest midget, and will continue, hopefully, being so.

Foreign money is invested here because when our economy is unstable, the rest of the world is burning.

We do need to become more friendly and better actors without further driving us into debt. For example, propping up other governments and economies with no economic benefit of our own.

What happened to "to the victor go the spoils"? Now the spoils go to line pockets of politicians and their cronies.

We, as a country, should own all of the lithium trade in Afghanistan because of our occupation of the region. That alone was enough to keep us there.

We want to act like imperialists but not be an empire. Makes no sense.

one MEEN Ag
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AG
Remember,

Currency is always half a trade. Currencies represent walled gardens of economies. So historically SA received dollars but what do you do with dollars? You plow it back into dollar denominated investments.

So SA didn't really trade oil for dollars. They traded oil for: US treasuries, bonds and stocks, US services and US economic goods. And what was underpinning the value of all of those purchases is that America enforces contracts, has a rule of law, and is generally low corruption with respect to businesses. It was a two way street of trust that also included a short term trust that dollars wouldn't devalue quickly.

SA opening things up to other currencies means SA now has to manage all of this with other currencies. SA is most likely going to be clearing a small amount of money back and forth with other countries with a majority of its spending still being american and euro based.
Mas89
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The Saudis should immediately start using the South African Rand instead of the dollar. The new rulers of that country have done such a great job running their economy the last 30 years I'm sure it will be a great currency for years to come…
agnerd
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AG
Does this mean the Saudis have to pay for their own security now? Wonder how much we were spending on their security and if we'll come out ahead in the long run.
Definitely Not A Cop
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ChoppinDs40 said:

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/reports-of-the-petrodollar-systems-demise-are-fake-news-heres-why-4e712804


Question about this article because I'm ignorant. The article claims that oil is bought with other currencies. They use the British pound as an example, but then in the example they give, they use the ticker of GBPUSD. Is that not still pricing the pound in US dollars?
Dirt 05
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This may be the only thing that can reign in deficit spending by the US Government. If China, India, and the EU stop buying Saudi Crude with USD, demand for dollars falls, and ability to issue more dollar denominated debt becomes much more expensive.

When the US was a massive exporting economy after flattening Europe and Asia in WWII, US debt was a good buy. When the US was the largest service economy and consumer base in the world it still made sense to buy US debt. It is no longer a sound investment and you should talk to your financial advisor about diversification now that there $35T of the asset class and it is growing to pay interest on the $35T, SS retirees, medicare fraud, and foreign wars in their own backyards.
MEEN Ag 05
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Dirt 05 said:

This may be the only thing that can reign in deficit spending by the US Government.


I would love to believe there is something short of a complete collapse that could do that. I think it would be great and should be a priority, but the idiots in Washington aren't wired the same way.
Heineken-Ashi
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

ChoppinDs40 said:

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/reports-of-the-petrodollar-systems-demise-are-fake-news-heres-why-4e712804


Question about this article because I'm ignorant. The article claims that oil is bought with other currencies. They use the British pound as an example, but then in the example they give, they use the ticker of GBPUSD. Is that not still pricing the pound in US dollars?
GBPUSD is a forex pair that values the GBP in USD. There are numerous pairs, with EURUSD trading more volume daily than any other instrument in the world.

Oil is purchased with USD. Goes back to the fall of the gold standard and the Bretton Woods agreement and the rise of the petrodollar where SA agreed to price their oil in USD as the dollar was seen as the strongest and safest currency after the world left the gold standard.

But currencies move daily in relation to one another, If they are buying oil in GBPUSD, it most likely means they see an arbitrage opportunity to transact in one currency and benefit with the other. GPB has been failing in relation to the dollar since the end of the gold standard, but has become relatively stable in the last decade and is even looking like it might strengthen.



Petrodollar, Eurodollar.. all linked. This is a must read for the meat of this topic, though it's not an easy read. Not only is trouble brewing in the bond market and global liquidity, but it's also brewing in the currency market.

Petrodollars are eurodollars, and eurodollar base money is shrinking (ft.com)

This article is more of the doom and gloom, but also an important read

The petrodollar is dead and that's a big deal (fxstreet.com)

I've long stated that we are on the way to WW3. And the reason is not traditional thinking. The world has transacted in the dollar for a long time. Global liquidity is tied to the dollar, and in turn, faith in the American economy, especially treasuries. In turn, we have devalued our currency into oblivion to continue to finance and prop up not only a slowing American economy, but a slowing world economy. It isn't just about American debt. It's about world debt. And every time we devalue, we outsource the pain to the world. The world is showing sign after sign that they are tired of it and losing faith in the American economy, in American stability. We aren't going to have a war because they hate us. We are going to have a war because the countries who have been punished the most from out recklessness feel like their backs are up against a wall. They aren't leaving the dollar because they think they can do better. They are leaving the dollar because they think they can't do worse, and ultimately, they think they have no choice. There will be a fight where the west attempts to keep it's grip on the current financial structure of the world while the BRICS and possibly others are looking to break away. I personally also think the rise in precious metals lately is largely being driven by world governments and central banks buying them up, attempting to stabilize as much of their liquidity base as they can leading to this event.
"H-A: In return for the flattery, can you reduce the size of your signature? It's the only part of your posts that don't add value. In its' place, just put "I'm an investing savant, and make no apologies for it", as oldarmy1 would do."
- I Bleed Maroon (distracted easily by signatures)
carl spacklers hat
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TTUArmy said:

ChoppinDs40 said:

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/reports-of-the-petrodollar-systems-demise-are-fake-news-heres-why-4e712804


You have to admit that our relationship with OPEC isn't great. Biden did a pretty bang up job of dumping the SPR during the 2022 election after going hat in hand to the Saudis for more oil, threatening US oil executives, sanctioning Russia then stealing the interest on their US treasuries to help Ukraine. From a business stand point, that's not a good look for us.

One of the main reasons we have capital in flows from other countries is due to our adherence to law, order, and security. Under this administration, I don't believe we give our global business partners much reason to believe we are good for it anymore. In fact, it looks like many are pulling out of the dollar, even though they will get economically punished for it. Kind of ripping the bandaid off, so to speak. The only thing propping up our economy now is the EU, who happens to be buying the lion's share of grandma Yellen's treasuries because the US government needs money to keep the war machines running here, Ukraine, and Israel.

Are we off the petrodollar...no. Are we still the best looking nag at the glue factory...yes. This admin sure isn't doing much to maintain it's relevance in world markets. I'd say they are doing more to hurt the dollar. And why wouldn't they when they have an idiot who wrote the book "King Dollar No More" as Biden's chief economic counselor whispering in his ear.
The Biden Administration weaponizing the Dollar against Russia was a wake-up call to the world. Any country that has a less than amiable relationship with the US was put on notice by the move. It is in their best interest (nationally) to explore options to using a currency that could be turned against you on the whims of an untrustworthy Administration. As stated already, the US dollar is no longer a sure-thing, safe bet.
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
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