My Mother in Law was a Texas teacher for her entire career. Never paid into Social Security and has been collecting Texas Teachers Retirement since she retired.

My Father in law recently passed away and his social security check was used to help pay for the mortgage and other monthly bills.

Is this something where my MIL has no rights to claiming his SS benefits or does she have a claim to the survivor benefits? I'll be honest in that she likely has a hard time living on fixed income and getting it reduced by $2,000 a month is gonna make it harder. She claims the SSA rep she talked to told her she didn't get the benefits but I'm thinking they might not be right here.

Is there a person to help talk to that can point us in the right direction?

Thank you most def.

It looks like you're right. It's kind of ****ty IMO as it just puts her on even worse footing going forward because Texas Teacher doesn't grow with inflation. But thankfully inflation isn't any major issue in today's economy.

Reverse mortgage not a possibility?

Unlike pensions from corporations, teachers pensions are considered 'windfalls' and thus if she claims his social security, it will be reduced by the amount of her pension. So if her pension is more than his social security then she will get nothing.

Sorry for your loss OP.

Damn this sucks and I better outlive my teacher wife !!

Ragoo said:

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Offer to buy her house owner finance 10% down at 4% interest and then rent it back to her. Get her some
Cash up front without a huge tax burden, then pay her monthly mortgage more than what you are renting it back to her. You get a cheaper interest, she reduces her monthly expense and doesn't lose her home.

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I've contemplated this actually but didn't feel like opening the can of worms with having to pay her mortgage balance off before doing so which is going to be a lot more than 10% down to pay it off.

jagvocate said:

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Reverse mortgage not a possibility?

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It's the option of last resort and it's something we've also considered but her house is the only asset. Should she need additional healthcare when she gets older - I want to be able to sell her house to help cover her healthcare costs before needing to get into our savings.

Plus - it's hard saving already for a college fund, a wedding fund (for my kiddo) and maxing retirement as much as possible. Not sure there would be left to go around for a MIL fund.

Red Pear Luke (BCS) said:

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Ragoo said:

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Offer to buy her house owner finance 10% down at 4% interest and then rent it back to her. Get her some
Cash up front without a huge tax burden, then pay her monthly mortgage more than what you are renting it back to her. You get a cheaper interest, she reduces her monthly expense and doesn't lose her home.

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I've contemplated this actually but didn't feel like opening the can of worms with having to pay her mortgage balance off before doing so which is going to be a lot more than 10% down to pay it off.

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ah. That's a good point.

Are you sure, your MIL would not get survivor's benefits?

Quote:

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Quote:

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If you're already getting Social Security benefits
If you're getting benefits as a spouse based on your spouse's work, we'll change your payments to survivors benefits when you report the death to us. If we need more information, we'll contact you. If you're getting benefits based on your own work, call or visit us. We'll check to see if you can get more money as a widow or widower. If so, you'll get a combination of benefits that equals the higher amount. You must complete an application to switch to survivors benefits. We also need to see your spouse's death certificate.

How much will I receive?
We base the benefit amount on the earnings of the person who died. The more the worker paid into Social Security, the greater your benefits will be. We use the deceased worker's basic benefit amount to calculate the percentage survivors can get.

The percentage depends on the survivor's age and relationship to the worker. If the worker who died was getting reduced benefits, we'll base your survivor's benefit on that amount.

In most typical claims for benefits a:

Widow or widower, at full retirement age or older, generally gets 100% of the worker's basic benefit amount.
Widow or widower, age 60 or older, but under full retirement age, gets between 71% and 99% of the worker's basic benefit amount.
Widow or widower, any age, with a child younger than age 16, gets 75% of the worker's benefit amount.
Child gets 75% of the worker's benefit amount.

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https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10084.pdf

More here..

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html

Red Pear Luke (BCS) said:

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jagvocate said:

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Reverse mortgage not a possibility?

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It's the option of last resort and it's something we've also considered but her house is the only asset. Should she need additional healthcare when she gets older - I want to be able to sell her house to help cover her healthcare costs before needing to get into our savings.

Plus - it's hard saving already for a college fund, a wedding fund (for my kiddo) and maxing retirement as much as possible. Not sure there would be left to go around for a MIL fund.

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Also, she could look into a reverse mortgage and buy long term care insurance.

My inlaws have it and it is only about $250 per month for each of them.

I realize that would be more out of pocket, but if the reverse mortgage pays the note, then it may be something to look at as it could end up saving her/you money in the long run.

I believe they changed it and you have to work closer to 5-10 years

She's 80 now so it's been about 15 years ago probably.

Mas89 said:

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There used to be a loophole on the Tx teacher retirement/ SS benefits. I know when an aunt was getting ready to retire, she had only TTR but worked a few days in another school district which had SS so she would qualify for both somehow. Her then husband later passed and I'm pretty sure she still gets his SS benefits today.

So op, I'm wondering if your mil could work a short time now in a SS job and then apply for benefits.

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I wouldn't mind hiring a babysitter if it means I am not paying the almost $1300/month for Toddler Daycare....

1Aggie99 said:

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By no means an expert here, but what happens if you get the home out of her name and into your name or some other beneficiary. Then if she needs more advanced care she would not have any assets to force sell. Let Medicare/Medicaid foot the bill.

Guessing you guys could subsidies as needed.

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I'm of the mindset that it is only a matter of time before we decide to build a MIL suite or ADU on our property and have her move in and pay us rent to do something similar like this.

If your MIL was receiving a lower monthly TRS payment because she elected a 100% or 50% survivor benefit for your FIL, I believe she can now remove that election and start receiving her full benefit. It might not be much but it could help some.

Yep and depending on your set up/amount of land, you could use as guest house or build it on a section that you would be willing to sell/gift down the road.

Not sure about the SS question, but I agree with most here that i don't *think* she'll get it.

How would she come out selling her house? Can she or is she willing to downsize?

schwack schwack said:

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Not sure about the SS question, but I agree with most here that i don't *think* she'll get it.

How would she come out selling her house? Can she or is she willing to downsize?

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She's not willing to sell it so much at the moment. She would definitely come out ahead but her 90-year old mom is still very much alive and living. Otherwise, would probably consider moving to be near us.

Oh dang... so you have MIL and Granny still kicking around. You might need an new wing on the house instead of just the MIL suite!!

Is her TRS payment more or less than the SS payments that he was receiving? If hers is more, then she will not get any more money than she is already receiving. If his was more, she should receive the difference such that her total combined TRS and SS Survivor benefit equals his amount (this is also dependent on her age).

This is the same way it would work if they had both been receiving SS. You don't get both payments in that case either.

BDJ_AG said:

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Is her TRS payment more or less than the SS payments that he was receiving? If hers is more, then she will not get any more money than she is already receiving. If his was more, she should receive the difference such that her total combined TRS and SS Survivor benefit equals his amount (this is also dependent on her age).

This is the same way it would work if they had both been receiving SS. You don't get both payments in that case either.

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Her TRS payment was 2/3s of the monthly income where as his was 1/3 plus his 401K (which was depleted with his Alzheimer care).

Unfortunately it sounds like her TRS will be the only income then. My Mom is in the same boat, except with SS. It worked fairly well when her and my Dad both had SS payments coming in, but it gets real tight when there is only one of those payments.

aggiez03 said:

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Stive said:

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Those links only apply if both people are in the SS system. You need to look at permabull's post above. People that are on TRS fall into a different category and she likely won't get anything.

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I guess I missed that post, that is nuts.

Pay into it all those years and die at 70 and your teacher wife gets nothing for all the years paid into it?

That seems almost criminal.

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Same deal as teachers with many police and firefighters in TX and a handful of other states. When hired they they opt out of SS and into the public pension plan. My moms TRS is better payout than dads SS is.

First… sorry for your loss. No one can relate unless they have been through it. I know what you and your family are going through and I'll be praying for your family.

Second… Did she retire from teaching prior to 2004? Edit as my mom said wrong year.

My mom was forced into early retirement when Texas changed the law so that the teacher spouse could no longer receive the non teacher spouses SS upon death. I think like 30-40% of all Texas teachers retired that same year.

Since my mom did retire when she did… and my dad passed away earlier this year… she gets his SS check/processed in less than a month. As she had other jobs and also had a little SS coming her way, that was cancelled in replacement of my dads.

If mom retired after 2010, she gets zero per my understanding.

Just looked into this yesterday. The answer is you must figure the GPO, government pension offset. Multiply the amount of her trs pension by 2/3. Then take the amount of his SSI and subtract her 2/3 number. That number is likely a negative number meaning she will receive 0. If happens to be positive, she would be entitled to that.

Supposedly there is a bill before Congress getting rid of the GPO, but it looks like something that is often presented but never passed.

Ragoo said:

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Offer to buy her house owner finance 10% down at 4% interest and then rent it back to her. Get her some
Cash up front without a huge tax burden, then pay her monthly mortgage more than what you are renting it back to her. You get a cheaper interest, she reduces her monthly expense and doesn't lose her home.

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that mortgage needs to be at the applicable federal rate (minimum) or you could have a gift tax situation on your hands. The AFR's are published by the IRS monthly.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-24-04.pdf

dirkjones said:

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Just looked into this yesterday. The answer is you must figure the GPO, government pension offset. Multiply the amount of her trs pension by 2/3. Then take the amount of his SSI and subtract her 2/3 number. That number is likely a negative number meaning she will receive 0. If happens to be positive, she would be entitled to that.

Supposedly there is a bill before Congress getting rid of the GPO, but it looks like something that is often presented but never passed.

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Yep. My wife taught school so her benefits are calculated as you describe. That calculation results in her getting her benefit rather than half of mine. Her benefit is quite small. I paid her from one or more of my companies in small enough amounts that she stayed qualified for social security disability should that ever be needed.

2wealfth Man said:

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Ragoo said:

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Offer to buy her house owner finance 10% down at 4% interest and then rent it back to her. Get her some
Cash up front without a huge tax burden, then pay her monthly mortgage more than what you are renting it back to her. You get a cheaper interest, she reduces her monthly expense and doesn't lose her home.

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that mortgage needs to be at the applicable federal rate (minimum) or you could have a gift tax situation on your hands. The AFR's are published by the IRS monthly.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-24-04.pdf

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Just slap some interest only terms and should be ok!