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Work/life balance

6,765 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by bagger05
Definitely Not A Cop
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I'm coming from this from the standpoint of being in sales, but don't feel discouraged to chime in if you have a different type of job.

Being in sales, the drive to never let an opportunity pass you by can lead to you constantly working weekends, holidays, etc. Especially when you are paid 100% off commission. I've seen great sales guys leave positions because they get burnt out and frustrated by this. How do you handle balance working and relaxing?


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Lavender Gooms
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Easier said than done, but I don't think about it (missed opportunities, etc). I'm not in sales, but salary is based on how productive I am. Even though I love what I do, it's not my top priority in life. My life isn't really any better with making more money. The memories we've created as a family is independent of my income. This coming from someone who changed careers at 30 and spent about 4 years either making almost no money or no money while transitioning to this new career. This was done while married and with a new baby. And I still look back on those years with fondness.

Don't get me wrong, making a good salary is nice and allows for more flexibility in saving, spending, and giving (this one is a big priority for us). I just can't think there is a net benefit for me when talking about sacrificing time with family for spending more time working.

I rarely work more than 40 hours per week, have 6 weeks of "use it or lose it" vacation, and it would take a lot for me to change that.

Will I ever make enough to provide "generational wealth" to kid/kids? No. Do I care? Not in the least. Will our kid/kids care? Doubt it.
ac04
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i have bounced back and forth between corporate (40 hours a week max except extreme circumstances) and consulting (multiple projects at once, ridiculous hours, travel, etc) for basically my entire career. pretty much whenever i decided i needed a ~20% bump in pay i would switch. about a year ago i got bored at my corporate job and went back to consulting.

almost instantly i realized i had made a mistake, my priorities have changed and i have completely outgrown the consulting scene. far more interested in a normal schedule and seeing my family every night/weekend than anything consulting can offer these days.

i got lucky and got a great offer to jump back to boring corporate a few weeks ago and i absolutely love it. and i have reached a level of compensation where i don't really feel the need to job hop anymore. glad i scratched that itch one last time to figure out that i'm firmly on team 40 hours a week for the rest of my career. or at least until i have an empty nest.
AgOutsideAustin
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Been in industrial sales for my career and never once worked straight commission. Won't do that. I do take my phone and laptop on vacations and answer emails in the early morning when possible. Had opportunities at travel jobs but early on decided against it. Never missed a kid's practice or game or recital and loved it. Could I have made more money and been retired now ? Saved more ? Sure but I have two Aggie kids that are law abiding, tax paying, good people.
I have still managed to save some and comparatively I'm doing pretty ok.

No amount of grind was worth giving that up.

Hoyt Ag
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I've managed large refineries/processing plants and power plants the last decade and before that I was over the control rooms for top 3 pipeline companies. All have been high pay, high stress. Moved to CO when Covid started for a new life and now manage a small fleet of coal plants. I would say I am like others, I have reached a total compensation that I don't want to bounce around any longer. I know my role will be gone at the end of 2028 due to coal phasing out of the energy grid. However, I will reach FIRE in that same window, so I will more than likely take a year or two off and travel the world. I will never get that chance again while in great health (41yo now). My hope is something will turn up along the way and I can spend a few more years working but finding another job will not be the primary focus when 2028 comes around.

My Dad is my hero and we had a long talk at Christmas this year and he basically told me that I am positioned well to do the things he wish he had done, but can no longer do. He said, "Hoyt Ag, if you don't have your health, you have nothing else". It broke my heart. So, I have my goal in mind and am working hard to get there. I'm not only doing it for me, but for him too. I guess what I am saying is, I have had much higher paying jobs, but I also worked a lot more hours and looking back, it was never worth it. I missed so much with friends and family. Now, I work 40 hours a week, but on call all the time, but I have a great balance. I get a lot of time off which helps too. I have found other ways to make passive income so I dont have to work at an office 60+ hrs a week. There are other ways to generate more income, but you can never get your time back.
YouBet
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I left my corporate job after 20 years. Retired/sabbatical/consulted for 2 years. Former customer hired me about a year and a half ago to help him launch a new business.

I have no work/life balance right now because it's a startup and there are only a handful of us. I work 7 days per week. I don't work full days on Saturday and Sunday but I work at least 4-6 hours on both days. The guy that helped bring me in already quit from the pressure.

There is no one to delegate to. The work gets done by me or it doesn't get done. The company is literally going to succeed or fail because of me. No pressure. However, I'm getting to build something from the ground up so that's cool.

I'm doing it because I wanted to see if I could. I knew it would be this way when I signed on so I was eyes wide open. It was more of a personal challenge than anything. As soon as I can get some folks under me, I'll be able to relax some but I've never worked like this in my life. My senior leadership gig in corporate was a cake walk in comparison.
jamey
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I use to live to work then 2008 happened and crushed everything I had worked for. This was the second time an employer shut the doors and I was left out, the first being the .Com crash but I had not worked my way up to to a high level back then, still in my early 30s. Instead I had a side job back then hoping to make something like 247 sports. That was a lot of work, every waking moment basically.

The second time hurt, 70 hr weeks running a manufacturing plant, and working my way up the ladder. I had to take a job making less than half what was making, or was going to make had 2008 not happened.


At this point I'm coming up on my 40s, not married, no girlfriend even. Obituary would have read, worked a lot.

I changed to a working to live philosophy soon after. I got married and had a daughter at age 47. I'll be 65 when she graduates HS. Luckily longevity runs in the family.

What's funny is I had no big dreams of what to do with the pile of money I was working for. It represented something more like high score on an arcade game, I don't know. Seems sorta pointless in hindsight.
Ridge14
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Turned down a few different roles and promotions. Earlier today I was offered a different role in the company that was described as high visibility with a lot of time pressure, aggressive deadlines, and emergency meetings.

No thanks, I'll stay where I am.
Sea Speed
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I honestly don't know how most 40 to 60 hour per week folks function. I have 6+ months off per year and I feel like I am balls to the wall all day every day and constantly behind on things I need to do around the house.
Medaggie
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I grew up super poor which burned in the penny pinching mentality.

Goal always was to get to 5M and retire. Always finding ways to do something cheaper.
Hit 5 M and then wanted 10M. Spend more but still put money over experience/convenience.
Hit 10M and then wanted 50M. Spend whatever I bring in.

Right when I hit 10M, I started to think. What is another 10-40M going to really mean? I really don't need more than 10M to live a great life and then give each of my kids 3M+ each. This is when an epiphany hit. The extra 40M when I am dead at say 80, would put my kids at 50yrs old. They for sure at that age won't care much about an extra 40M . So who will care about the extra 40M. It will be my Grand kids and the inlaws. I refuse to continue to do anything unless I enjoy it and not busting my butt so grandkids who aren't even born or inlaws that I may not like reap the benefits.

Forget that. I am 50, have 20 good years left. I am enjoying every minute from here on. I work because I enjoy it. If I don't enjoy it, doubt I would do it. Wife wants a 50K rolex, sure get it. I want a 80K Cybertruck sure its on order. My daughter's first car, sure it will be a new Tesla (she wants it). My son wants the $200 Airpod, coming the next day.

Now, I don't mean that we would spend out of control, but I am not worrying about adding anymore to my net worth. I make 0.5% income and would have no problem spending it all and just let my net worth grow. I could make 10K going to work a day but give it up all the time to watch my kids soccer game.
BenTheGoodAg
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Not in sales. I personally really struggle with a healthy work/life balance. I find it really easy to prioritize work issues when they come up and think about work issues when I'm at home. I'd rather be wired different, but I think there are a lot of people that are the same way.

I went through a lay-off where a whole sector was shut down. It was a very humiliating experience and I felt like I was being stripped of so many things - reputation, identity, purpose, etc. It was a good wake-up call that I had to do some things different moving forward in my career.

I have to work really hard to let go of issues when I'm not at work, and focus on my family and build some other hobbies. It has taken some intentionality to get into a routine at home where I am focusing on other things. I've gotten better at this over time, but I think this will always take some work and focus.
Todd 02
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It's just Life Balance. Work is a part of life (at least for most of us).
jamey
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BenTheGoodAg said:

Not in sales. I personally really struggle with a healthy work/life balance. I find it really easy to prioritize work issues when they come up and think about work issues when I'm at home. I'd rather be wired different, but I think there are a lot of people that are the same way.

I went through a lay-off where a whole sector was shut down. It was a very humiliating experience and I felt like I was being stripped of so many things - reputation, identity, purpose, etc. It was a good wake-up call that I had to do some things different moving forward in my career.

I have to work really hard to let go of issues when I'm not at work, and focus on my family and build some other hobbies. It has taken some intentionality to get into a routine at home where I am focusing on other things. I've gotten better at this over time, but I think this will always take some work and focus.


I hear that. I said above I made a change in philosophy to work to live, but that success was really just not chasing money, corporate ladder..etc.

I have not been able to shake taking work home, thinking abiut this and that, isolating myself from family in the process. I suspect if I mowed lawns for a living, I'd find a way to think of it at home.

I find myself in envy of those who can just do what they can do and not get worked up over this and that, and turn off work when they hit the door. I hope my daughter is like that. I think its bound to be a more full existence
JSKolache
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I leave at 530ish and turn it off. No working nights or weekends. No checking emails. Zero interest in that.
FunnyFarm14
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14 on (travel accross country) 14 off... I feel constantly behind at work and at the house. Even at home, I'm hustling to catch up and keep things going around the property. My hobbies include work.

I don't know how to turn it off, but a small trip to the gym keeps me sane as does a few beers. Not sure I live to work, but I also don't really know how to live without working at something either. Wife understands
Sea Speed
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FunnyFarm14 said:

14 on (travel accross country) 14 off... I feel constantly behind at work and at the house. Even at home, I'm hustling to catch up and keep things going around the property. My hobbies include work.

I don't know how to turn it off, but a small trip to the gym keeps me sane as does a few beers. Not sure I live to work, but I also don't really know how to live without working at something either. Wife understands


28s here and thankfully no real travel for work but same on always feeling behind at home. On that note though, I'm not sure how I would do the things I do with a normal job because when the kids get home from school my production really slows to a crawl. I think I would feel further behind if i had a regular gig.
bagger05
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Todd 02 said:

It's just Life Balance. Work is a part of life (at least for most of us).
Exactly. I think work/life balance is a flawed construct. It implies that work is separate from your life, when it's a component. For most people it's a critical component.

In all aspects of our lives -- family, friends, work, hobbies, learning, spirituality, physical health, mental health -- there's a level of investment where you're getting a good ROI. Where your efforts are making the other components better. There's both a level of neglect and a level of over-investment where you start doing harm to the other aspects of your life.

Maintaining good levels is always tricky. Things naturally get out whack and you need to rebalance regularly.


Lots of people out three putting too much energy into their work. Also a lot of people struggling because they're not putting enough energy into their work.
Sims
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Spent 2 years @ a PE/startup working for a boss in New Zealand. His day started at 4P mine. I usually got to work around 7A and home by 530P. Supper/homework with the kids, back on the computer by 9P for a daily with boss and then usually to bed by midnight after finishing the things he wanted "first thing in the morning." Looking back, it was extremely valuable to me. I learned how I didn't want my career to go.

It's not the worst I've seen in my circle but it was enough to make me say eff that. Outlook is snoozed now @6P and doesn't turn back on until 7A. My cell is nowhere to be found in corporate directory or business cards. That ones that need it, know it.

I take the kids to school every day, I go to all of their events, I go to the office everyday and am usually the last one out the door. I consider myself lucky but at the same time, if I had to find another gig - it would look very similar because that is my requirement.



evestor1
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I have a few requirements in my current life

I always answer phone
I answer emails by computer only
I will not stay past 4pm unless it is to help someone or I'm having fun hanging out.
I coach flag football and soccer. I do all planning for practice and games at work.

I also don't argue with people at work. No need to let disagreements waste my day.
The Silverback
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This is tough.....At times I tell myself quit being a ***** and go bust your ass. But then other times I feel worn the F out with stress and nothing is ever seems to be enough. I own a small business so I can theoretically do what ever I want but the constant stress of growing and attentiveness to customers can be overwhelming. I am 44 so feel like I should keep griding for another 6 years and then start to look at an exit strategy. I never miss anything kid wise but its more the grind/stress that is tough to maintain.
one safe place
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Had my own businesses for about 34 years or so, still have two passive ones that don't require much time. But the main business (CPA practice) did. For about the first 18 to 20 years, it took up way more time than normal. I cut back after that. Looking back, I had the work/life balance out of whack. I attribute that, in part, due to having nobody to fall back on if need be, my parents could not help bail me out, It was sink or swim. And my wife left the work world from the time of our oldest child's birth until the youngest child went to first grade. My work paid all the bills, funded college savings for the kids, and seed money for other ventures. If you have your own accounting or law practice, you can pretty much make as much money as you are willing to sacrifice time for.

I never loved my job, I hated it in fact. It was a means to an end. Work is work, play is play. Some profess to love their job, but that wasn't me. These same people say TGIF, not TGIM. They look forward to vacations, not vacations ending to go back to work. I was the second youngest CPA in my area. Almost all around my area are 75 to 78 years old (I know them all) and many attorneys around here are of similar age, though there is a scattering of younger blood in the legal profession. Most of these older guys and gals have a great deal in terms of real estate, mineral interests, and I assume all have pretty substantial net worth, some I know do. I have asked most of them a time or two, when we see each other, how much longer are they going to work. Generally, they say oh, another year or two. They just cannot turn loose, perhaps they will feel they would be a lesser person without working, I don't know. None of them seem to have a passion for anything outside of work, a couple of them do play some golf. I would bet most of them continue on until dementia prevents it, or they die at their desk.

Strange how different it is with blue collar folks (most of my family and peer group). They make good money, when they are off they are off, can't wait to retire, and most do so at 60 to 65 with $2 or $3 million in retirement and get on with post-work life.
Noble07
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I switched jobs a couple of years ago for better pay. I work almost every night (sometimes very late), 4-5 hours on 75% of weekends, work during vacations, and have had to sacrifice gym time, sleep, reading, etc. In addition to the hours, the job itself is terribly stressful. Most of the time I have a pit in my stomach type feeling.

I've finally found a job at a good company with normal "corporate" hours. Anyone got advice on this transition back to normalcy? I tell myself that if I dial it down but still work 10% harder/longer than I did in my last corporate role that all will take care of itself. I'm worried that I will have a hard time turning this off, even though I desperately want to.
AgOutsideAustin
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Noble07 said:

I switched jobs a couple of years ago for better pay. I work almost every night (sometimes very late), 4-5 hours on 75% of weekends, work during vacations, and have had to sacrifice gym time, sleep, reading, etc. In addition to the hours, the job itself is terribly stressful. Most of the time I have a pit in my stomach type feeling.

I've finally found a job at a good company with normal "corporate" hours. Anyone got advice on this transition back to normalcy? I tell myself that if I dial it down but still work 10% harder/longer than I did in my last corporate role that all will take care of itself. I'm worried that I will have a hard time turning this off, even though I desperately want to.




I would start with your first paragraph. You said your other job had you sacrificing gym time, sleep, and reading. Start with increasing those three things and see if it has any effect on your stress management.
bagger05
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The Silverback said:

This is tough.....At times I tell myself quit being a ***** and go bust your ass. But then other times I feel worn the F out with stress and nothing is ever seems to be enough. I own a small business so I can theoretically do what ever I want but the constant stress of growing and attentiveness to customers can be overwhelming. I am 44 so feel like I should keep griding for another 6 years and then start to look at an exit strategy. I never miss anything kid wise but its more the grind/stress that is tough to maintain.
Start working on your exit strategy now. The result of "starting to look at an exit strategy" is usually that you have several years of work to do before it's really ready to take to market (or you settle for less than top dollar).

What's the longest vacation you've taken in the last year? And I mean totally unplugged, not sitting on the beach while answering work calls and checking your email.
Josepi
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I work a 100% commission sales job. It's tough. You're only as good as your last month.
I take my laptop and cell phone on vacation and it's been a good 5-6 years since i turned my phone off for any length of time and disconnected. Honestly, I would probably be too anxious to even do it. I keep a notepad by my bed because I often wake up in the middle of the night thinking of projects I need to follow up on or a strategy to win a project.

That being said, I work remote. I go into the office once per year. So there is a lot of freedom as well. If I want to take off an afternoon to hang out with the kids, I can. I coach many of their sports teams, and don't miss any events. If I had to go into an office or fight traffic every day I would have quit a long time ago. I work from home about half the days, and travel to see clients the other half (Just day travel...no overnight). When I'm in the office, I listen to records most of the day, eat lunch with my wife, or pop into one of my kids schools to eat lunch with them. I don't live in a big city, so I almost never sit in traffic.

It also helps that I'm good at my job. I do technical sales, so the sales process can be long and I typically work with engineers on designing products. It's not the type of sales where a competitor is going to pop in the door and undercut my price by 2%. I don't work weekends other than checking e-mail. Most of the customers who jump up and down and scream on the weekends aren't worth my effort. I only have 3 customers I would drop everything for. I prioritize my time more than anything in my life, and I make customers fit my schedule, not the other way around. I don't answer calls if they aren't saved in my contacts. I don't take on small projects. Yes, it has absolutely cost me money over the years, but it's also given me the time to focus on my most important customers and my family.

I've made it work, but it's an interesting balance. One one hand I'm incredibly fortunate that I have built up a big client base, and I make a good salary. On the other hand, it can feel like I'm constantly fighting to stay ahead of the wolves. I spend lots of time with my family, but I never ever truly disconnect from work.



bagger05
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Great bit of advice I once heard was "Don't ask yourself what's my passion? Ask yourself what's my favorite flavor of s##t sandwich?"

Everything has downsides. Pick the downsides you like.

- If you simply can't stomach the idea of working 80 hour weeks, being a lawyer at a big time firm probably isn't for you.
- If the thought of being rejected a lot makes you cringe, probably not a good idea to be in sales.

Stuff like that.


Sounds like you have chosen a career where you don't completely hate the downside, so that's good.

I also think that you should be in tune with what's working well and what isn't. What you find to be energizing. That is something that evolves over time. Most people that hate their jobs didn't hate it their first day.
FunnyFarm14
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Sea Speed said:

FunnyFarm14 said:

14 on (travel accross country) 14 off... I feel constantly behind at work and at the house. Even at home, I'm hustling to catch up and keep things going around the property. My hobbies include work.

I don't know how to turn it off, but a small trip to the gym keeps me sane as does a few beers. Not sure I live to work, but I also don't really know how to live without working at something either. Wife understands


28s here and thankfully no real travel for work but same on always feeling behind at home. On that note though, I'm not sure how I would do the things I do with a normal job because when the kids get home from school my production really slows to a crawl. I think I would feel further behind if i had a regular gig.
I get it, wife's projects sometimes have my production stall out LOL. Kid on the way might make it worse-

But it sounds like you found a 28 that is close to home? We might need to chat LOL my 14's are in ND, Live in TX....
Sea Speed
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Honestly I've got the best gig going. I get to come home if there are no jobs but I still get paid. I guess it averages out to about a week of every hitch at home. I still feel too busy to function ha. Sounds like you're in the oil field, unfortunately I wouldn't be much help for you unless you want to be entry level on a small boat. Something tells me you'd be taking a pretty significant pay cut with that switch.
The Silverback
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bagger05 said:

The Silverback said:

This is tough.....At times I tell myself quit being a ***** and go bust your ass. But then other times I feel worn the F out with stress and nothing is ever seems to be enough. I own a small business so I can theoretically do what ever I want but the constant stress of growing and attentiveness to customers can be overwhelming. I am 44 so feel like I should keep griding for another 6 years and then start to look at an exit strategy. I never miss anything kid wise but its more the grind/stress that is tough to maintain.
Start working on your exit strategy now. The result of "starting to look at an exit strategy" is usually that you have several years of work to do before it's really ready to take to market (or you settle for less than top dollar).

What's the longest vacation you've taken in the last year? And I mean totally unplugged, not sitting on the beach while answering work calls and checking your email.
I have thought about that, its just that even if I get 4x my revenue when I sell I still need income. So fear I am a ways away unless I have another business opportunity, or make a new opportunity. But I anticipate a 2-3 year process of selling and washing my hands clean.

I am able to travel, in fact every summer we spend 3-4 weeks in Colorado and take 4 day weekends from time to time. But emails and phone call never stop, I am just able answer them with a better view. Which I am extremely grateful for. Every time I get overwhelmed with stress I tell myself the tradeoff of working for "the man" is much worse. But this has more to do with self-employment vs being an employee, and work life balance can suck either way.
bagger05
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So a few thoughts here. I'm just a random dude on the internet (but I am an entrepreneur), so take it or leave it as you wish. This is a little fable I heard from someone who used to be in the business of buying/selling small-mid market privately held businesses.


Let's say that in your industry, on average the company sells for 4x revenue. But that's an average. Of course it's a range. For simplicity's sake, let's say it's 3-5x.

Now let's think of three companies. A Co, B Co, and C Co all make the exact same revenue and profit. But at A Co the owner rarely takes any vacation (and never disconnects). B Co the owner can take a two week vacation every once in a while with some minimal check ins. And at C Co the owner takes off all of March and August every single year and is 100% disconnected from the business while she's gone.

When these companies go to sell: A sells for 3x, B sells for 4x, and C sells for 5x.


My friend's point (and I've heard this VERY consistently from a lot of different sources) is that in most of these acquisitions the buyer is looking for maximum growth and minimal risk. Lots of ways to measure that, but the biggest factor on both fronts is usually owner dependency. The "vacation test" is a decent way to assess that.

High owner dependency comes with higher risk and lower scalability. And it also probably means I'd need to reduce my assumptions on profit and cash flow. Companies like A Co often have owners that are doing several jobs (payroll, admin, accounting, engineering, etc) that the new owner doesn't want to do.

Also a lot of times the only way to make the deal work with A Co is a long transition period where the old owner has to convince customers that the new ownership can be trusted. So A Co's deal includes an earn out and an employment contract (back to working for the man) while C Co just gets a check and rides off into the sunset.


So if you're going to sell in the next few years, you're going to have to find a way to stop taking phone calls from the mountains eventually (or settle for a lesser deal).

I submit to you that by not dealing with it NOW you're missing out on the benefits of getting to unplug and shed this stress you were talking about. And you're probably leaving money on the table.

If your business is like most others I've seen, the customers who MUST talk to you even though you're on vacation are often the lowest margin. If you found a way to get some other lower paid person to take care of those jokers, you'd get the time back to develop even better relationships with your BEST customers (who probably respect your time off) and find more customers like them.


My $0.02.
Cyp0111
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Great post.
Medaggie
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I am 50 and semi retired. I work as much or as little as I want.

Unless you love your job, I think working til you are 65 to retire is a sad picture. My biggest regret is I did not semi retire earlier. We only have one life and waiting to finally relax/enjoy all of the hard work at 65 when you are declining in health is just sad to me. Even at 50, I wish i could have started when i was 40.
The Silverback
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Good stuff bagger. Thank you
bmks270
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BenTheGoodAg
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jamey said:

BenTheGoodAg said:

Not in sales. I personally really struggle with a healthy work/life balance. I find it really easy to prioritize work issues when they come up and think about work issues when I'm at home. I'd rather be wired different, but I think there are a lot of people that are the same way.

I went through a lay-off where a whole sector was shut down. It was a very humiliating experience and I felt like I was being stripped of so many things - reputation, identity, purpose, etc. It was a good wake-up call that I had to do some things different moving forward in my career.

I have to work really hard to let go of issues when I'm not at work, and focus on my family and build some other hobbies. It has taken some intentionality to get into a routine at home where I am focusing on other things. I've gotten better at this over time, but I think this will always take some work and focus.


I hear that. I said above I made a change in philosophy to work to live, but that success was really just not chasing money, corporate ladder..etc.

I have not been able to shake taking work home, thinking abiut this and that, isolating myself from family in the process. I suspect if I mowed lawns for a living, I'd find a way to think of it at home.

I find myself in envy of those who can just do what they can do and not get worked up over this and that, and turn off work when they hit the door. I hope my daughter is like that. I think its bound to be a more full existence
Right. Envy for others is a good way to describe it.

I actually do like the challenge and sense of accomplishment I get at work. So, I feel like I've been most successful forgetting about work issues when I have things in my personal life that challenge me in similar ways. I really like home projects and learning to hone some craft skills, ie welding, woodworking, plumbing, etc. It's nice because it's a break from the grind of an office setting but still technically challenging, and fulfilling when I see progress and complete something. And it's a good way that I've been able to connect with my kids.

For years, I thought "relaxing" was the way to disconnect, but have figured out over time that it's not a good way to recharge for me.
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