Tax Question on Pension Mandatory Cashout

1,161 Views | 6 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Horse with No Name
DartAg1970
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AG
I had a pension from an old employer that was no longer getting contributions. I decided to rollover the balance to an IRA so it could grow and have contributions made to it. The balance exceeded the maximum $6,000 per year, so they sent me the remainder as a Mandatory Cashout. Can I and if so how would I avoid the 10% penalty on that amount on my taxes?

It seems to me that I shouldn't be penalized for a mandatory cashout. Any help is appreciated.
Pinochet
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Not my area of expertise but I was thinking the mandatory cash out limit was a part of a qualified plan. Rollovers generally don't have a limitation and aren't subject to the penalty. Someone who deals with this on a regular basis will be along shortly to give you better information though.
one safe place
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Maybe I am not following, but the $6,000 limit (actually $6,500 or $7,000 depending on what year, and assuming under 50 years of age) applies to contributions, not a limit on a rollover amount. To answer your question, it would seem the taxation of what you got paid, and the 10% penalty, could be avoided by rolling it into the IRA provided you are still within the 60 day window.

Have no idea what they are talking about with a mandatory cash out you mention, at least how it applies to you being above some limit. Plans can adopt language that account balances below some threshold can be paid out without the participant requesting it to be paid out.

Might be a good idea to have a sit down session with someone aware of all the rules.
DartAg1970
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AG
So I guess my Fidelity person didn't understand what I was doing, because they told me the max I could contribute a year was $6,000 and the rest I would have to take as a disbursement.

I told them I wanted to rollover m qualified pension plan into a new IRA and that is when they told me that and then they sent me the rest with tax taken out but not the penalty.
Pinochet
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You need to talk to Fidelity AND a CPA pronto. There are ways to cure it, but the tax withheld and if coded as a contribution by Fidelity, even the $6k is going to be considered a distribution followed by a contribution if you don't fix it. If you already made another IRA contribution for that year, you'll have excess IRA contributions that get hit with a 6% penalty. This is really not good.

The Fidelity person is not understanding the mandatory cash out provision of a qualified pension plan. That just allows the plan to cash people out if the accrued amount is less than some threshold upon separation from the company. I believe that threshold used to be $6000 but changed to $7000 this year. It doesn't have anything to do with the employee, though. It's just a requirement for the plan itself.

As OSP mentioned above, the total amount the Fidelity person is talking about is not right. You can roll any amount over from a qualified plan but you can only contribute a certain amount each year to an IRA.

I think there are a couple CPAs on this board who do this kind of work - maybe nactownag or gigemhilo? We have some folks at my firm too, but I'd start with the Ags here.
2wealfth Man
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AG
maybe OP had a 401K plan? would be helpful to know the character of said employer plan
Horse with No Name
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Wow.

I would be crawling up Fidelity's @ss on this one. Of course you can rollover a pension into an IRA. It may have a few names, but lump sum rollover and defined benefit to defined contribution rollover, come to mind, but it sounds like you got hosed by bad advice. I guess I'd need to hear the timing of the transaction, and what the amount of lump sum was to say how bad this is, but off the top of my head:

20% mandatory withholding that you'll have to wait til tax filing to get back
10% Penalty tax (if under 59.5) and
Possibly limiting your contributions to an IRA (if, as poster above stated, you were already making those contributions).

Last question... Presumably Fidelity asked what your income is for the year, but did the extra funds getting paid out push you into the 'non-deductible" IRA category? If so, this will complicate your tax returns in retirement for many years.

Also stated above, you have a very limited amount of time to try to get this rectified. Once you pass 60 days, it is difficult to go back.

Edit to add: If this was done by phone, the call was almost certainly recorded. Someone at Fidelity should be able to listen to the archived call and determine whether you received bad advice or just didn't understand what you were agreeing to.
Ridin' 'cross the desert. . .
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