This topic seems to spill over into a lot of threads these days. Time to take a note from the zoo and pull it into it's own thread and stop bickering on other people's threads.

As for me, I think WFH has its place, but is not OK for everyone. Bad employees in the office are worse at home. I think some time in person is needed for corporate teams. Death by a thousand skype meetings and emails is no way to live.

Personally, I telework about 1 day per week. I have a plan for what I'm going to work on, and/or only skype meetings planned for the day. It's a nice change of pace not driving to work, being able to eat at home. I get more done when I'm selective about the tasks I take home. But working in a manufacturing & lab environment, I think it's important to be close to the mission and the people, so the majority of my time is on site. I could probably do my job exclusively from home if I had to, but I think the overall impact to me and my group would be negative.

And there are a lot of situations that make this different for people. I don't think you can't broadly discredit either lifestyle.

Go!

I've got 3 leads on jobs coming up in the next year. I've never worked from home before.

2 of the 3 jobs would involve some amount of work from home. One of those offers the least pay and I would still probably take it over the one not work from home job because I would really like to have that extra flexibility.

I'm in sales. Mainly WFT. Work from Truck.

One of my former bosses was the owner. This guy HATED WFH. When covid hit we were only home for 3 weeks when he forced everyone back to the office. During the great freeze he was upset that us employees didnt go in to the office (it was snowing and the roads were iced). He also works from home or on his vacation trips all the time. Stupid boomer ass mentality, little did he knew we were looking for jobs or watching netflix, hell sometimes we would just open the office and take off to run errands.

Having a blanket "WFH is bad" or "WFH is good" mentality is dumb. There are positives and minuses depending on the specific employee. People with little kids tend to less productive. Its work from home, not work from home and take care of your kids time. Also, if your wife is stay at home with kids and she does respect work boundaries when you are working from home, its a net negative as well. For "individual contributor" types with experience that benefit from less commute time and less distractions, work productivity could be significant.

Feels like companies are currently in the trend to move away from WFH and to in office....but I think in the long run WFH will be more of the norm. You still need 10 years for more of the boomers to retire. That's still going to hold most companies back in the short term.

I have worked from home for the past 6 years and refuse to work in an office again, unless it's for life changing money or I'm forced to. I've worked in enough toxic office environments, that drain the life out of you, to realize I don't need the social interaction of office life. I do realize there are benefits to working in an office, and in person facetime can be beneficial for someone's career, but it's not for me.

I think a hybrid schedule is a good compromise, or give people the choice to work the kind of schedule they want.

I'm 100% WFH and my company is as well. However they still maintain offices where people do go in one or two days a week if they want.

Our HQ is in NC and I'm in Texas and did not/will not have to move. We are also global with other offices in Ireland and Australia so no one is moving anywhere to work in the office.

If I wanted to move to NC I could and the company would pay relocation as well but my kids are in middle school and we don't want to take them away from friends and family. I live my job/company and being able to work wherever and whenever I want.

I'm 39 and our CEO is 38 so no boomer mentality.

It depends on the type of job and the skills needed to do the job.

If a job requires physical presence (manual labor, presenting products, no remote options), then WFH is an absolute negative.

If a job can be done remote for personal benefits but in person would have greater business benefits, then it becomes a balance that only the employer and employee can come to an agreement on.

However, if a job can be done remote with little benefit if said job was done in person, then that job strictly relies on the skills of the employee to not be outsourced to the cheapest country. Advocating WFH if you are in a job like this is a dangerous game.

My new job is WFH and the company is selling our building so it looks like I'll be remote permanently

One of the main benefits of WFH for me was being able to look for jobs nationwide, and not just in my city. I was laid off in January and was able to find a job that has its office in another state. My last WFH job also had its offices in different states. This expands my pool for looking for jobs. If I had to rely only on the jobs posted in my city, I would probably still be unemployed.

Thoughts on this theory

Seems extremely myopic.

To many variables go into that decision. I.e.
Kid living in NYC has no reason to get a license.

harge57 said:

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Seems extremely myopic.

To many variables go into that decision. I.e.
Kid living in NYC has no reason to get a license.

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Yep. You weed out the NYers too!

TwoMarksHand said:

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I'm in sales. Mainly WFT. Work from Truck.

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I am an in office guy. I don't really like to work from home. But, I would love to to try a work from truck job!!

Optimal situation for me would be a 3/2 or 4/1...days in/days out.

My profession, or at least many in it, are archaic in their thinking and assume if you aren't sitting in the office with everyone else you are incapable of being productive and completing work. Despite a worldwide pandemic having proved that theory false.

Practically all my OAC meetings are teleconference. I can do (and have done) that from anywhere.

But I would go bat**** if I stayed home all week. I would want to go into the office 1-2x per week to collaborate, shoot the ****, check on junior staff, and give some focused attention on work planning for the following week.

I work from home full time. Have for the past 1.5 yrs. I work way more than when I was in office while at the same time get to see my family more. At my company nobody cares where you work from as long as you get your work done and are available when needed/expected. My analyst who are near an office go in when they want to but it's also no big deal if they decide to spend a week or two in Colorado or Florida or fricken Spain & work from there. My guy who goes to Spain routinely (bc his wife travels there frequently for her job) understands that he may be working till 2am local time if needed.

I haven't had an issue with anyone on my team but if someone isn't performing at the level we expect they would go on a PIP & let go if they don't turn it around quickly. Thankfully that hasn't been a problem. We have a pretty intensive interview process & we are a fast paced company so we stay plenty busy. We pay well & all my team has a lot of RSUs & bonus opportunities which incentivized them to perform.

My biggest gripe with working from the house is it is much harder to maintain boundaries between work & family. My office is always only a few steps away.

Not sure if I want to work fully remote forever but I could never imagine being in an office full time again.

No real WFH detractors yet. Hmmm.

Maybe we'll see them all respond on Monday when they're back in the office.

Gordon McKernan said:

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I work from home full time. Have for the past 1.5 yrs. I work way more than when I was in office while at the same time get to see my family more. At my company nobody cares where you work from as long as you get your work done and are available when needed/expected. My analyst who are near an office go in when they want to but it's also no big deal if they decide to spend a week or two in Colorado or Florida or fricken Spain & work from there. My guy who goes to Spain routinely (bc his wife travels there frequently for her job) understands that he may be working till 2am local time if needed.

I haven't had an issue with anyone on my team but if someone isn't performing at the level we expect they would go on a PIP & let go if they don't turn it around quickly. Thankfully that hasn't been a problem. We have a pretty intensive interview process & we are a fast paced company so we stay plenty busy. We pay well & all my team has a lot of RSUs & bonus opportunities which incentivized them to perform.

My biggest gripe with working from the house is it is much harder to maintain boundaries between work & family. My office is always only a few steps away.

Not sure if I want to work fully remote forever but I could never imagine being in an office full time again.

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What industry are you in?

BenTheGoodAg said:

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No real WFH detractors yet. Hmmm.

Maybe we'll see them all respond on Monday when they're back in the office.

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A little over 15 years WFH now.

All of you really need to get back in the office.

Gordon McKernan said:

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I work from home full time. Have for the past 1.5 yrs. I work way more than when I was in office while at the same time get to see my family more. At my company nobody cares where you work from as long as you get your work done and are available when needed/expected. My analyst who are near an office go in when they want to but it's also no big deal if they decide to spend a week or two in Colorado or Florida or fricken Spain & work from there. My guy who goes to Spain routinely (bc his wife travels there frequently for her job) understands that he may be working till 2am local time if needed.

My biggest gripe with working from the house is it is much harder to maintain boundaries between work & family. My office is always only a few steps away.
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Spot on. This is one of the main WFH drawbacks that no one really talks about. A lot of WFH people end up working longer hours since they're always connected to work. When I worked in an office, I would leave my laptop at work and leave work at work. Now that I WFH, it's not uncommon for me to do some work after hours or on the weekends: check emails, fire up the laptop to transact something etc.

ea1060 said:

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Gordon McKernan said:

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I work from home full time. Have for the past 1.5 yrs. I work way more than when I was in office while at the same time get to see my family more. At my company nobody cares where you work from as long as you get your work done and are available when needed/expected. My analyst who are near an office go in when they want to but it's also no big deal if they decide to spend a week or two in Colorado or Florida or fricken Spain & work from there. My guy who goes to Spain routinely (bc his wife travels there frequently for her job) understands that he may be working till 2am local time if needed.

My biggest gripe with working from the house is it is much harder to maintain boundaries between work & family. My office is always only a few steps away.
.

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Spot on. This is one of the main WFH drawbacks that no one really talks about. A lot of WFH people end up working longer hours since they're always connected to work. When I worked in an office, I would leave my laptop at work and leave work at work. Now that I WFH, it's not uncommon for me to do some work after hours or on the weekends: check emails, fire up the laptop to transact something etc.

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When I was WFH during most of Covid I had more time off due to lack of commute and never bothered checking in after hours or on weekends.

You can still leave work at work even while at home.

I am curious - my company is currently instituting RTO policies lately and I'm simply not a fan. How did those that have full time WFH manage to swing that long-term? Did you need to switch industries?

My employer has been WFH since Covid hit and just kept it after. We were able to hire a lot of talent from across the country that we would have otherwise missed out on and made a couple of acquisitions during the pandemic. Forcing everyone to relocate would be impractical and lead to a lot of resignations at this point. Some departments go into the office and our CFO/CEO go in everyday because they prefer it, but they don't expect it from everyone. We've had plenty of employees who couldn't handle WFH and they have been let go. Managers have to be able to evaluate productivity and results not just face time, which is better for the business, but can be hard on poor managers.

I understand it isn't for everyone, but I really enjoy it. Turning work off was a challenge at first, but I've adapted to it and set boundaries for myself. It is also allowing me to move to a more rural area of the state rather than stay in a city, which I am thankful for. A company would have to pay me a serious premium for me to consider an in-office job in the future.

we decide for ourselves to go into the office or not. i go a couple times a week just to change things up, but i decide my schedule. i think requiring X days a week is outdated and unnecessary.

I generally WFH 1 day a week. I have 3 kids and i appreciate the flexibility to work from home regularly. Still, my company is still relatively young and I think it's difficult to build any sort or cohesive rapport or company culture fully remote. I've also found with new team members, knowledge transfer is much more efficient in person.

What's remarkable to me on this thread (and LinkedIn) is how many people work in toxic cultures. If I ever worked in a spot where it was unpleasant to come into the office, I'd just find a new job.

my normal corporate life is 9 days in the office in Bethesda with every second friday WFH

this summer it has been working overseas where I have an office and can also work from the Airbnb

going into the office means 35 minutes in traffic paying the taxi fare and then back again. So I do a mix, most days in the Regus Office (obviously none of those people are my coworkers as it's just a remote working office building) and then sometimes work from the apartment.

I think a mix is the best solution

How do you handle people asking to "work from home" from a vacation destination or similar?

I never had an issue with a day or two on the front or back end of a trip or something like that. as long as they are handling their business it was fine by me. if it was longer than that I probably would have said they'd really need to use PTO

If it's truly short term, as long as they get their work done no big deal. As a manager though I would just encourage my reports to take the time off for the vacation unless something was truly urgent. Now if it is longer term there are tax implications and it would depend on if the business is registered in the state and what not. Internationally for us is generally a no-go even for short vacations due to data security risks.

Jack Klompus said:

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How do you handle people asking to "work from home" from a vacation destination or similar?

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Why does it matter where they are if work is getting done?

I typically mix and match work remote vs PTO based on days I won't have connectivity or too many plans to be available as needed. Long driving day where I can jump on calls or open a laptop as needed, definitely working remotely.

Most vacations I plan and work ahead so that I only need to jump online a couple of hours in the morning or late afternoons to stay caught up.

I'm hybrid, 2 days WFH and 3 days in the office. I like it a lot. For me, I think it's the best scenario.

My wife is 100% WFH, has been since before COVID, probably 2017/2018 time frame. She loves it and is pretty good at it, it works for her.

What I find interesting are the people who say WFH is absolutely the way to go and better all around. I just don't think we have enough data yet long term. I mean most people doing WFH haven't really done it long enough for job life cycles....And the people who've been doing it long term, like my wife, aren't a large sample size.

Actual overall effectiveness/productivity aside......how does this effect new hires and their development, sense of belonging, etc.? How does it effect succession planning and managers mapping out their path to upper management? Overall collaboration? With all the above, how does it effect overall turnover? I understand people are generally "happier" with WFH, but that loses appeal when it becomes the norm/expected. It becomes a lot easier to job hop when you have no personal connection...

New hires getting trained up would be the only real point of contention I see out of that list. A large company I worked for had this figured out pretty well. The first 2 weeks were onsite at a training facility that got the new hire up to speed on the administration side of how things and how the company worked. Any job specific training (scheduling software or SAP or product specific knowledge) was also taught here hands on and interactive with SMEs. The next 2 weeks were divided up meeting with people in the group that would mentor them and round out getting them operational including sitting in on meetings and such.

All the rest still happens, the channel of communication just shifts. The vast majority of the time, online meetings aren't any different than in person.

When I did my MBA they had the option to focus on international business in 2008. At that time I thought it was a little far fetched that business outside of large corporations would all shift global and teams would be spread around the world. They didn't have all their theories correct, but I'm glad I took that focus as 2 of the 3 jobs since have been more like this than traditional roles with regional / local work.

While my core team sat local, Subsea O&G was more international than in person. Components and assemblies coming from dozens of countries spread around the world with the cultural and currency / tax differences to match. As a product line manager, manufacturing was much the same in a different industry.

Then Covid hit and the world changed in mass. The reality is very few industries require the company to be local or in the office. There's obviously specific roles that are, but the company often isn't and it doesn't need to be. Outside of those that have to be hands on to operate or manufacture, it doesn't matter where the white collar positions sit. A computer and phone work the same just about anywhere. In large corporations it's pretty normal to call / computer into meetings instead of walking to the other side of the campus or to a different building.

Companies that recognize this and shift that way will have more efficiency while having better access to a wider pool of candidates and suppliers.

The point on new hires goes further than just training, IMO. It goes into full on mentorship and development outside of just learning systems.

And I'm not saying none of my points above are deal breakers or can't be done in WFH. What I'm saying is we just don't know if they are being done or if they're being done effectively because all of this is relatively new.

I think early in career people should work in an office to understand what it's like if they have the ability to do so. Not necessarily full time, but at least hybrid, and I think it will be a future competitive advantage. There is no replacement for regular mentoring that an early in career person needs and the ability to watch and participate in interactions that are crucial for their development, like standing up and making a presentation in a conference room or white boarding.

I think the real thing that people value is flexibility and being measured on results vs. time. I think the rigid mindset of being in the chair at 8, eating your lunch between 12-1, and being back in the chair until 5 is kind of stupid and not reflective around how people are actually productive.

Even the very simple concession of 'hey, you probably want to pick your kids up from school, and I know you'll be offline for 45 minutes, but you'll be available after and you'll do evening / weekend work when it's necessary' is powerful. The trouble is a lot of the ardent folks just want to control people and make life difficult. It's really easy to plan around this conundrum.

What's it like being one of the only people in America that is on Skype? Do you frequently have meetings with just yourself since no one else has this app?