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New Bull Market or Bear Market Trap?

2,270 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by 2wealfth Man
Bonfire97
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Just wondering what everything is thinking. Thoughts?

Fundamentals seem to point to a bear trap:
1.) Very inverted 10/2 treasury curve which always has historically proceeded recessions.
2.) Corporate forward guidance on future earnings *mostly* doesn't seem too great from recent earnings reports.
3.) Interest rates are high and going marginally higher per Powell. 4.5% seems pretty high with the debt we have incurred since 08.
4.) Fed is still running their QT operation in the background (nobody talks about this).
5.) CAPE PE at 30 still seems to indicate high valuations. New mean value (post 1990) seems to be around 25.
6.) Just had to throw this in (jokingly) - Cramer is calling this a new bull market. Bearish to me.

Other factors point towards new bull market, soft landing, etc:
1.) Technicals are firming up - i.e. 50/200 S&P "golden cross".
2.) Powell's lack of "hawkish" statements seem to be priming things for a later year pivot. He seems to do this in phases, sort of like how he gradually changed course when raising rates.
3.) YOY inflation indicators are precipitously falling - but with the ridiculous levels in 2022, this was a given.
4.) Voodoo market indicators - January was great, so goes the rest of the year, never 2 down years in a row, fill in the blank, etc. etc.


JohnLA762
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txaggieacct85
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Tex117
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My guess is going to be a bear trap. The way these things go is that by time everyone has a sense of what's going on...its already over. Stupid money comes in. Smart money out...and around and round we go.

Best just to stay disciplined....cost average down according to regular plan...and just wait it out.
evan_aggie
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I think we started a period of 5 years stagnation. It will go by in 5 years and will be 2% above ATH and we'll say...wow, time sure flew.
txaggieacct85
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'Big Short' Michael Burry Quits Twitter After Ominous 'Sell' Warning (businessinsider.com)
Win At Life
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Tex117 said:

My guess is going to be a bear trap. The way these things go is that by time everyone has a sense of what's going on...its already over. Stupid money comes in. Smart money out...and around and round we go.

Best just to stay disciplined....cost average down according to regular plan...and just wait it out.

Are you saying the smart money guys who are really following the activity and forecasting of international businesses hasn't already predicted bad times ahead and gotten out? That's sounds pretty dumb of them.

I'm thinking the smart money has already been taken out since November of 2021, and that most of the poor Q1/Q2 2023 performance and guidance has been priced in by the big players.
Tex117
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Win At Life said:

Tex117 said:

My guess is going to be a bear trap. The way these things go is that by time everyone has a sense of what's going on...its already over. Stupid money comes in. Smart money out...and around and round we go.

Best just to stay disciplined....cost average down according to regular plan...and just wait it out.

Are you saying the smart money guys who are really following the activity and forecasting of international businesses hasn't already predicted bad times ahead and gotten out? That's sounds pretty dumb of them.

I'm thinking the smart money has already been taken out since November of 2021, and that most of the poor Q1/Q2 2023 performance and guidance has been priced in by the big players.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they can't take a rip when an opportunity presents.

My non-financial dumb opinion is that by the time everyone starts talking about something in the market (not unlike now), its already over.

techno-ag
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JohnLA762 said:




Win At Life
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Tex117 said:

Win At Life said:

Tex117 said:

My guess is going to be a bear trap. The way these things go is that by time everyone has a sense of what's going on...its already over. Stupid money comes in. Smart money out...and around and round we go.

Best just to stay disciplined....cost average down according to regular plan...and just wait it out.

Are you saying the smart money guys who are really following the activity and forecasting of international businesses hasn't already predicted bad times ahead and gotten out? That's sounds pretty dumb of them.

I'm thinking the smart money has already been taken out since November of 2021, and that most of the poor Q1/Q2 2023 performance and guidance has been priced in by the big players.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they can't take a rip when an opportunity presents.

My non-financial dumb opinion is that by the time everyone starts talking about something in the market (not unlike now), its already over.


Yeah, that's kind of my point. Even most small investors have already reacted to the looming bad news throughout the whole last year. And the market has started to go "meh" for everything coming out of Ukraine. Unless that takes a dramatic turn for the worse, I don't see it affecting the markets, and any positive news will move things quickly to the upside. I'm thinking the basic company profit/losses, future guidance (even if slightly down), FED, jobs reports, etc will not "rock" the market down much from here. I just took some accumulating cash and bumped up my QQQ (missed out on 10% increase in January).
Tex117
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Win At Life said:

Tex117 said:

Win At Life said:

Tex117 said:

My guess is going to be a bear trap. The way these things go is that by time everyone has a sense of what's going on...its already over. Stupid money comes in. Smart money out...and around and round we go.

Best just to stay disciplined....cost average down according to regular plan...and just wait it out.

Are you saying the smart money guys who are really following the activity and forecasting of international businesses hasn't already predicted bad times ahead and gotten out? That's sounds pretty dumb of them.

I'm thinking the smart money has already been taken out since November of 2021, and that most of the poor Q1/Q2 2023 performance and guidance has been priced in by the big players.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they can't take a rip when an opportunity presents.

My non-financial dumb opinion is that by the time everyone starts talking about something in the market (not unlike now), its already over.


Yeah, that's kind of my point. Even most small investors have already reacted to the looming bad news throughout the whole last year. And the market has started to go "meh" for everything coming out of Ukraine. Unless that takes a dramatic turn for the worse, I don't see it affecting the markets, and any positive news will move things quickly to the upside. I'm thinking the basic company profit/losses, future guidance (even if slightly down), FED, jobs reports, etc will not "rock" the market down much from here. I just took some accumulating cash and bumped up my QQQ (missed out on 10% increase in January).
Oh, I think we take one more solid run towards the bottom before we make the climb back up. Fundamentals are detiorating...still...and the Fed, after this jobs reports, likely keeps on raising interest rates...and will keep them there.

Not financial advice, but I would caution about "timing the market." I don't have the exact data in front of me, but if one missed out on the top like...10... trading days over the last two decades or so...one would miss out on a sizeable percentage of gains. Point being...by time one thinks "the coast is clear" the major gains have already been had. Like Buffett said...its time in the market not timing the market.
Carlo4
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You mean 10% monthly gains in Nasdaq isn't normal?
YouBet
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Who knows. I've never tried to predict the market and have no reason to now. Total crapshoot IMO. Wish I had dumped a lot of cash at the end of December though. Would be looking nice right now.
2wealfth Man
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nothing is ever binary; probably bouncing around sideways for a while with some long term upward potential.
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