BenTheGoodAg said:

---

HR is setting you up for failure. There's no way you can share the news fast enough. By the time you get to #3 or 4, the word will be out. And everyone will be left wondering if and when they will be getting the call.

---

This is a good point. My good friend and coworker left the office as soon as I found out and let him know we were getting cut. He didn't come back until after lunch. This made management nervous, HR nervous, and the entire office just got caught up in watching management freak out on how they are going to now lay off an employee that's not there. He just wanted to not deal with it but ended up making all of management look like a clown circus. It was hilarious. But nothing of substance got done by 100 people for about four days after due to the excitement and gossip how they managed to screw up a pretty simple process. That and the fact they told everyone "there are no more layoffs" after three sets of layoffs.

You have you're working cut out for you.

Sorry man. Nothing fun about that.

I've always appreciated this scene from Moneyball.

I've been on both sides of it. When I got laid off myself I was returning from PTO, it was virtual due to COVID, my boss asked about my vacation first. We talked and then she dumped the news. Awkward.

My advice, tell them immediately that this meeting is to let them know their position has been eliminated and they are therefore being laid off. Then give them the info they need and ask if they have any questions.

Laid off while on PTO deer hunting with my dad December 11, 2013 (ran BCS half-marathon with Aggie Daughter Class of '17 on Sunday, hunted with dad and Aggie Daughter Class of '14 on Sunday evening/Monday, daughter got huge hog on Sunday, I killed a big deer on Tuesday, laid off while on PTO on Wednesday while finishing the hunting trip - what a week!). The layoff was a gift from God (literally) but being on PTO was weird and extremely difficult to process in the moment. How do you go on with the time with my dad? How do I tell my dad? When do I call my wife? The drive home was weird. To be fair, I was preparing for a 2nd career so the layoff and severance were welcomed but not in the moment.

Here is how it went. Got a VM from the SVP asking me to call her about 10am (2 levels above me were out on PTO also so the SVP got to be the bad guy). I had enough experience that I knew what this was probably about. I head out to the highest point in the county so I had cell reception preparing for the news. It was short and simple. She read the script and asked if I had questions. I just validated the severance and moved on. The severance met my expectations so it was easier to process. If it had been less, it would have been much more difficult.

My dad (retired NASA executive) could not believe the PTO lay-off. He thought that was awful and let me know that. What do you do? Call them back and tell them how crappy that is? It turned out to be a real blessing to me. I did not have to do the "walk of shame" through HDQ and my dad hugged me and expressed his compassion (I still really cherish that he was there). I understand why they had to call me.... They wanted everyone to know one way or the other that day. However, it did put a damper on the end of a fantastic trip. It would have absolutely ruined a wonderful week if I did not have other career aspirations.

My recommendations for all but especially those on PTO....

1. Stick to the script
2. Express your understanding that this is even more difficult for the other person given they are on PTO
3. Do not get defensive if they are upset they are on PTO. Let them vent.
4. Be brief in your explanation but as long as needed if they have questions for you to answer

The prologue for me (and hopefully for those you give notice to). I was given 30 days notice and severance. My last day with the company was 1 day shy of 26 years with the company (no one at the company realized I walked out 1 day prior to a 26 year anniversary). I took a career shift into a field that I have always wanted to be in but it was never the right timing. 8.5 years later, I am in a career that I love, helping people more than ever, making 2X of my BEST year in my previous job with more opportunity for growth and much better working conditions.

It can work out and get better for someone who is on the receiving end and this day might be the catalyst for them. It was for me.

My recommendations to anyone out there who wants to listen..... Have a back-up plan at all times. I engaged my back-up plan and it worked. I tell everyone now to have their resume up to date and a list of 5 people you will call if you are the one who is receiving the bad news.

I am so thankful God allowed me to go through this because I enjoy what I do so much more than my previous work.

Gig 'em!

Aggiewes '87

The fact that HR is dumping this on you is a complete joke, but not surprising. They're some of the most worthless individuals on the planet.

Threads like these always reinforce to me that you owe nothing to any company or manager. When push comes to shove, they will throw your ass out the door and be thankful it wasn't them.

I dont have much to add, but as someone who works in HR and has also been laid off, I can relate. I have some pretty heart breaking stories of being there when people were laid off.

I remember one time we had to lay a guy off who had relocated to that state a year before and bought a huge, expensive house. He told us during the layoff convo that his wife was pregnant and not working, he had an expensive mortgage and mouths to feed. The guy was crying the entire time and looked like he was about to have a heart attack or hyperventilate. It was pretty gut wrenching.

I got laid off in May of 2020 due to covid. My boss had previously told me I had nothing to worry about since I was one of the top performers. Two weeks later I get the call that I was being laid off. My boss was in tears and was probably more upset/sad about the situation than I was lol. I got a really nice severance and was burnt out from that job anyway. Apparently I was the highest paid person in the entire department and thats why I was selected. I dont blame them for making that decision, they could lay me off and keep 2 people since my salary was double of most of my coworkers.

That was the only job I was ever loyal to and constantly turned down other offers. Now I know better.

The lesson, these companies don't give a shat about you. Always act in your own best interest.

Seeing lots of warning signs for the economy this week, and this one is no different.

**** is about to hit the fan.
Good luck to you all as we weather the storm

Red Pear BCS Luke said:

---

As terrible as this sounds - but HR not being there makes me a nervous nelly in that, you're doing their job of laying off the folks and then they turn around and lay you off after wards.

Am i just being overly paranoid?

---

I saw this happen in a movie.

"NO, NO, I'm firing the bus driver."

Ghost of Bizbee said:

---

Seeing lots of warning signs for the economy this week, and this one is no different.

**** is about to hit the fan.
Good luck to you all as we weather the storm

---

What's scary as hell to me is that ALL the warning signs are there. Yet when I look at my business, pacing for this Q and the next are about where I'd expect them. This economy is schizo as hell. Maybe my industry won't be terribly affected but as all of us mid career have seen too many times...pull one string and nobody knows what's going to come falling.

Good luck to all of us, indeed. Tough times don't last, tough people do.

Captain Winky said:

---

Threads like these always reinforce to me that you owe nothing to any company or manager. When push comes to shove, they will throw your ass out the door and be thankful it wasn't them.

---

just to approach it from the other side...

employees can and will leave on a dime and do so without thinking how their decision affects others that work around them... we really are in the 'me' generation and people will only think about their 'perceived' best outcome (or wage)

in many cases that grass is usually not greener

i'm not suggesting that people shouldn't try to better themselves with another job... it is just a bit hypocritical to lash out when a company is forced to do something on the other side that employees are doing all the time (average jump is 3-4 years)

many times these layoffs are the result of an economic downturn... not because they are just cutting the fat

on another note... it seems like there have been a huge upticks in layoffs... i'm still sticking to my original prediction that the printing of money that has led to inflation (with even more gov spending) and will eventually ratchet the interest rate on up there... till we tip into a significant recession

ride the wave while u can but keep that head on a swivel so the wave doesn't crash down on you

one more thing... voting has consequences

If you are a Christian pray for yourself and for each of those by name that your going to dismiss. God will take care of them and you. Then……

Sticks to the facts. Someone will sue. Anything you say outside of their direction can go bad for you.

Being a manger is great until you have to manage. Stick to the scripts since that their advice. Then go to the bar and get a drink!

.

2023 will be the year of the massive layoffs. It's coming, so of you're in a "safe" position of leadership you best sharpen your skills in this area.

As for people getting laid off, let it inspire you to NEVER place your life/livelihood in a single entity. Not anymore. Find supplemental and alternate income streams in your spare time. You just might learn that one of them makes great income and end up giving notice to your employer.

agAngeldad said:

---

If you are a Christian pray for yourself and for each of thise ny name that your going to dismiss. God will take care of them amd you

---

I am and am doing this, thanks.

bigcitytexasaggie said:

---

cjo03 said:

---

how big is this company?

---

Large. >70,000 employees

---

70k! unbelievable that HR won't be in the room for this.

I am one of those HR people too. Did these a few times at a shoe company up in portland that also had 70k+ - idea of a manager going solo is strange and risky.

Ag92NGranbury said:

---

Captain Winky said:

---

Threads like these always reinforce to me that you owe nothing to any company or manager. When push comes to shove, they will throw your ass out the door and be thankful it wasn't them.

---

just to approach it from the other side...

employees can and will leave on a dime and do so without thinking how their decision affects others that work around them... we really are in the 'me' generation and people will only think about their 'perceived' best outcome (or wage)

in many cases that grass is usually not greener

i'm not suggesting that people shouldn't try to better themselves with another job... it is just a bit hypocritical to lash out when a company is forced to do something on the other side that employees are doing all the time (average jump is 3-4 years)

---

I feel compelled to respond to this. I have seen companies do insanely inhumane things like rescind job offers the day before someone starts, lay off in the first week with no severance, and eliminate positions while someone is on leave. I know someone who was a 20 year vet that needed to take medical leave. Their superiors hired someone else in their position after 8 weeks, and when the employee returned after 12 (4 after this), they were given 3 weeks to find an alternative job within the company or take a severance package. It is total crap that a business can get away with anything under the guise of 'the needs of the business' but that you as an individual aren't entitled to the same leeway.

After having seen some of these things, the only thing I care about is managing 30K, Inc. I do not blame anyone at any time for acting in their best interest, even when it negatively affects me. I do care that they own it and don't do things like 'ghost', but anyone that tells me they're leaving because they've gotten something better, I wish them well and hope the best for them. I would personally have zero qualms quitting a job 5 seconds after starting if something else better came along.

I encourage everyone to moonlight, have secondary skills like OA is mentioning, and just generally be self sufficient. It's a different world now.

I got laid off in August and literally only good things happened after that. My new job is literally better in every single way (which I couldn't imagine being possible before being laid off). I got a huge pay bump, way better benefits, shorter commute, more experienced co workers, better leadership, and am doing a job better aligned with my interests, and am crushing it.

What happened to me will happen to some of the people being laid off. You can't predict who, but what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't feel like you're dooming any of them.

And all of my laid off coworkers had new jobs within 2-3 months. It was fast for me, I started my new job 7 weeks after being laid off.

If they are truly talented and skilled employees they will be back to work in 3 months or less.

Your co-workers will be fine. It's not going to kill them.

Layoffs are actually pretty common in my experience. In 10 years of working I've witnessed 5 layoffs, and been laid off 1 time, and my wife has witnesses 6 layoffs, and been laid off 1 time. That averages to about one layoff every two years. However layoffs are less frequent than that but come in waves. Might be two layoffs 3-6 months apart after 3-4 years of no layoffs.

Most people I know have been laid off at some point in their life. It's part of a free economy with free employees and free business owners.

$30,000 Millionaire said:

---

Ag92NGranbury said:

---

Captain Winky said:

---

Threads like these always reinforce to me that you owe nothing to any company or manager. When push comes to shove, they will throw your ass out the door and be thankful it wasn't them.

---

just to approach it from the other side...

employees can and will leave on a dime and do so without thinking how their decision affects others that work around them... we really are in the 'me' generation and people will only think about their 'perceived' best outcome (or wage)

in many cases that grass is usually not greener

i'm not suggesting that people shouldn't try to better themselves with another job... it is just a bit hypocritical to lash out when a company is forced to do something on the other side that employees are doing all the time (average jump is 3-4 years)

---

I feel compelled to respond to this. I have seen companies do insanely inhumane things like rescind job offers the day before someone starts, lay off in the first week with no severance, and eliminate positions while someone is on leave. I know someone who was a 20 year vet that needed to take medical leave. Their superiors hired someone else in their position after 8 weeks, and when the employee returned after 12 (4 after this), they were given 3 weeks to find an alternative job within the company or take a severance package. It is total crap that a business can get away with anything under the guise of 'the needs of the business' but that you as an individual aren't entitled to the same leeway.

After having seen some of these things, the only thing I care about is managing 30K, Inc. I do not blame anyone at any time for acting in their best interest, even when it negatively affects me. I do care that they own it and don't do things like 'ghost', but anyone that tells me they're leaving because they've gotten something better, I wish them well and hope the best for them. I would personally have zero qualms quitting a job 5 seconds after starting if something else better came along.

I encourage everyone to moonlight, have secondary skills like OA is mentioning, and just generally be self sufficient. It's a different world now.

---

i'm not saying that all corporations aren't bad actors...surely there are some... however, the employer gets the bigger black eye nowadays thanks to people like AOC and Bernie... the company has the right to act in its self interest as well to stay afloat.

it is funny that you mention moonlighting... i'd need over 2 hands now to count the number of people that i know that do this currently and do not give their current employer what is required by their contract/employee agreement... part of the reason why remote work has failed by and large.

to me this is stealing...

These companies don't care about you. Everything you do as an employee should be seen through that lens. It's about time employees have started to take back some of the power.