Millionaires next door.
Is everybody in debt?
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Last: 3 mo ago by Captain Winky
now just wait a second!JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:ea1060 said:Depends on what your definition of middle class life is. Im about to have a million net worth in my mid 30's working for the man. If I maintain my savings/investment rate then I will likely have $5+MM by the time I retire. Not super wealthy, but thats a pretty good retirement. Im actually shooting for $10MM, but will probably land somewhere in the middle of $5MM-10MM. .Dan Scott said:
This countries tax code and economic system benefits investors and entrepreneurs. You can't make it big working for somebody. You can have a nice middle class life but that's it.
A lot of my friends and coworkers are in the same boat as me. Ive had bosses retire with $10-20+MM in the bank.
Its not hard: make a good income, save/invest a high percentage of your income. You should be a millionaire in ten years by doing this. And yes, this is very achievable by working for somebody.
This feels a bit TexAgs B&I board to me.
$1M in 10 years is roughly $6k/month at 8% annually.
To the average person, putting away $6k/month isn't "easy". To many, seeing $6k/month after taxes isn't easy.
It sounds like you've made some great choices and have a great plan in place, but this board is often way too quick to assume things that really only apply to a small subset of people.
That's not to say that folks generally prioritize the right things or make good decisions - just to say that there is often a middle ground between the people yelling out "this is impossible" and saying it is "easy" to accumulate $1M in 10 years.
you are claiming that some guy on an anonymous message board:
claiming it's really easy to become one of the richest ONE PERCENT OF PEOPLE ON THE ENTIRE PLANET of 8 billion humans
might not be tethered to the reality of most people?
So is a "million net worth" the same as a "millionaire"? I never really thought my home equity should be in included in whether or not I'm a "millionaire". I've always looked at being a millionaire as having at least a million dollars liquid regardless of additional equity you may have tied up in real estate. Is that the wrong way to look at it?
I think if you include home equity, there's probably a lot more "millionaires" than we think.
I think if you include home equity, there's probably a lot more "millionaires" than we think.
I've thought the same thing. Home equity seems kind of pointless in those sort of calculations cuz you gotta live somewhere.
Home equity has always been a factor in net worth when discussing "millionaires". The hang up for most people is the how much real estate values have inflated to dilute the term millionaire. Getting to the first 7 figures in total network isn't as hard as it used to be and certainly has less value in determining if you've "made it" yet.
It isn't 100% liquid but it is certainly a part of the value that you have built in your life which is what net worth is supposed to be a measure of and there are certainly ways to extract or leverage that value as needed.
It isn't 100% liquid but it is certainly a part of the value that you have built in your life which is what net worth is supposed to be a measure of and there are certainly ways to extract or leverage that value as needed.
Yeah, I mean, let's say someone has $20k in cash, $100,000 in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
Versus a guy who has $175k in cash, $1.5 million in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
To call them both "millionaires" seems off.
Versus a guy who has $175k in cash, $1.5 million in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
To call them both "millionaires" seems off.
Well that's the difference between a multimillionaire and a millionaire.....Hungry Ojos said:
Yeah, I mean, let's say someone has $20k in cash, $100,000 in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
Versus a guy who has $175k in cash, $1.5 million in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
To call them both "millionaires" seems off.
More ample comparison would be $20k cash, $100K in retirement/investments, and $900k in home equity vs. $20k cash, $900k in retirement/investments, and $100k in home equity.
They're both millionaires. Millionaire doesn't mean you're set for retirement....
Personally, if looking at networth I include home equity. When looking at retirement I only look at my retirement and earmarked investment accounts.
Hungry Ojos said:
Yeah, I mean, let's say someone has $20k in cash, $100,000 in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity. This guy/gal is a millionaire.
Versus a guy who has $175k in cash, $1.5 million in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity. This guy/gal is a millionaires.
To call them both "millionaires" seems off.
Also, if we don't factor in home equity for net worth, would we also throw out mortgage debt in the argument? Or just zero it out as long as you aren't underwater?htxag09 said:Well that's the difference between a multimillionaire and a millionaire.....Hungry Ojos said:
Yeah, I mean, let's say someone has $20k in cash, $100,000 in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
Versus a guy who has $175k in cash, $1.5 million in retirement/investment accounts and $900k in home equity.
To call them both "millionaires" seems off.
More ample comparison would be $20k cash, $100K in retirement/investments, and $900k in home equity vs. $20k cash, $900k in retirement/investments, and $100k in home equity.
They're both millionaires. Millionaire doesn't mean you're set for retirement....
Personally, if looking at networth I include home equity. When looking at retirement I only look at my retirement and earmarked investment accounts.
I see what you are asking, but equity is already factoring in the mortgage debt.
I have a spreadsheet where I track it several different ways over time. Net worth with and without R/E, retirement nest egg, college savings, etc. I want to see my assets broken out by how I expect them to serve me so I can accurately forecast.
It's already been pointed out, but while net worth can be a fun number to look at it doesn't really tell you much, imo.
I have a spreadsheet where I track it several different ways over time. Net worth with and without R/E, retirement nest egg, college savings, etc. I want to see my assets broken out by how I expect them to serve me so I can accurately forecast.
It's already been pointed out, but while net worth can be a fun number to look at it doesn't really tell you much, imo.
I track my savings and investment accounts vs my debts, and I exclude home mortgage or equity.
Given inflation, cost of living, more stuff to spend money on...... a millionaire today is essentially lower to middle class.
I am in the 5-10M range and do not feel super rich more like upper middle.
I am in the 5-10M range and do not feel super rich more like upper middle.
Lower class? GTFO
I understand the point you're making, but referring to "just being a millionaire" as lower class is a gross exaggeration.
Millionaires are the new LOLpoors.
You are in the top 1-2% of the country.Medaggie said:
Given inflation, cost of living, more stuff to spend money on...... a millionaire today is essentially lower to middle class.
I am in the 5-10M range and do not feel super rich more like upper middle.
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A million in net worth puts you in the 88th percentile across all ages.
Five million is 97th percentile. Ten million is the 99th percentile.
Five million is 97th percentile. Ten million is the 99th percentile.
We've had this debate before but by definition Net Worth includes your home.
If you don't want to include it, then that is a different term from Net Worth.
If you don't want to include it, then that is a different term from Net Worth.
Medaggie said:
Given inflation, cost of living, more stuff to spend money on...... a millionaire today is essentially lower to middle class.
I am in the 5-10M range and do not feel super rich more like upper middle.
This is because you look at the things middle class people have like $200,000 boats and $75,000 trucks and quarterly trips to Disney World and think to yourself "that'd be fun to have but it's way too expensive and I can't afford it!". Those people are most likely drowning in monthly payments on those items.
The actual savings and earnings numbers are completely disconnected from consumer habits and it can make savers feel like they don't have nearly as much as they do.
This is the kind of post that keeps me coming back to TexAgs over and over...
JFC man, live a little...
JFC man, live a little...
Medaggie said:
Given inflation, cost of living, more stuff to spend money on...... a millionaire today is essentially lower to middle class.
I am in the 5-10M range and do not feel super rich more like upper middle.
Troll fail
-Ben There/R.C.
5 million would give me somewhere in the range of 200k/yr in retirement. With a paid for house and kids grown, I would have to work really hard to spend that much money.Medaggie said:
Given inflation, cost of living, more stuff to spend money on...... a millionaire today is essentially lower to middle class.
I am in the 5-10M range and do not feel super rich more like upper middle.
It amazes me how some people can be so idiotic.
https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-paycheck-to-paycheck-i-make-350k-a-year-but-have-88k-in-student-loans-170k-in-car-loans-and-a-mortgage-i-pay-4-500-a-month-on-do-i-need-professional-help-01664544530
$350k income and still living paycheck to paycheck is only possible by being completely financially inept.
$170k in car loans, $4.5k/month mortgage, and they write up a woe is me story expecting people to feel sorry for them?
https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-paycheck-to-paycheck-i-make-350k-a-year-but-have-88k-in-student-loans-170k-in-car-loans-and-a-mortgage-i-pay-4-500-a-month-on-do-i-need-professional-help-01664544530
$350k income and still living paycheck to paycheck is only possible by being completely financially inept.
$170k in car loans, $4.5k/month mortgage, and they write up a woe is me story expecting people to feel sorry for them?
Brian Earl Spilner said:
It amazes me how some people can be so idiotic.
https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-paycheck-to-paycheck-i-make-350k-a-year-but-have-88k-in-student-loans-170k-in-car-loans-and-a-mortgage-i-pay-4-500-a-month-on-do-i-need-professional-help-01664544530
$350k income and still living paycheck to paycheck is only possible by being completely financially inept.
$170k in car loans, $4.5k/month mortgage, and they write up a woe is me story expecting people to feel sorry for them?
It really is surprising how so many people just expand their spending to match (or exceed) whatever they make. A partner at a firm I used to work at made roughly double what the person in this story made, and still lived paycheck to paycheck. He came in one day *****ing about one of his credit cards getting compromised and how much of a pain it was going to be to get a new card number. I can't remember the exact number of recurring charges he had on that card, but it was something like 30+ (and that wasn't his only card). Numerous wine clubs, every kind of membership you can think of, and both cable and satellite (not for the different channel offering, but one as a backup for when the other one went out).
Brian Earl Spilner said:
It amazes me how some people can be so idiotic.
https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-paycheck-to-paycheck-i-make-350k-a-year-but-have-88k-in-student-loans-170k-in-car-loans-and-a-mortgage-i-pay-4-500-a-month-on-do-i-need-professional-help-01664544530
$350k income and still living paycheck to paycheck is only possible by being completely financially inept.
$170k in car loans, $4.5k/month mortgage, and they write up a woe is me story expecting people to feel sorry for them?
I'd still say something doesn't add up? I mean they should be bringing home $20k a month? So 4.5k plus 2k for cars (?)… they should be fine. Said they don't have credit card debt. But seems they have to have a bunch of extra spending if truly living paycheck to paycheck. A $4,500 mortgage for someone making $350k isn't terrible.
The article actually says ON PAPER he's paycheck to paycheck. He's not struggling for money, he's including savings and 401k and everything else and whining he doesn't have anything leftover. Which is how it should be??
I see it pretty often and shake my head.
This board is such an outlier it is not even funny
I think you're right, but I have another question for the board along these lines. How would y'all define "rich"? Is there a certain number you can get to (in net worth) that we would all agree makes one "rich"?
Is it a million? 2? 3? More?
Is it a million? 2? 3? More?
I would say 5M+.
This is my number as well. You could pull out 3% of gains and never touch the principal pretty safely on a yearly basis and if your plan was to live a pretty simple life, you could do it without working.
Realistically someone who puts away $5 mil likely would get bored doing that, but it could also replace the income of one high earner in a two income household if they wanted to focus on raising kids, etc.
Realistically someone who puts away $5 mil likely would get bored doing that, but it could also replace the income of one high earner in a two income household if they wanted to focus on raising kids, etc.
I'm going with $5M. $1M isn't dick with the state of this world and if you have a lot of years left.
I wouldn't define rich by net worth. My idea of rich is having enough cash in the bank that you're not having to worry about what anything costs. Not waiting for that airfare to go down, no trying to find the best deal on a hotel, no passing on a car or purse or pair of shoes because it's out of the budget. Not telling your kid he should consider an out of state school because they offer scholarships so that even out of state tuition/fees is cheaper than in-state A&M.
Idk what the exact number is, but it would be big enough to walk away from a 6 figure+ job before you are retirement eligible with no worries.
I think that kind of $ is typically inherited. Or the result of selling a business or getting in early with a start up. It's out of reach for those of us who signed up with corporate America for the health insurance and pension benefits.
Idk what the exact number is, but it would be big enough to walk away from a 6 figure+ job before you are retirement eligible with no worries.
I think that kind of $ is typically inherited. Or the result of selling a business or getting in early with a start up. It's out of reach for those of us who signed up with corporate America for the health insurance and pension benefits.
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