Sandman98 said:

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I think we're seeing wealth and asset transfer from boomers beginning to drive the lifestyle of a heck of a lot of people. People don't usually tell you about that source of wealth.

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I agree and think this is bigger than many think. We are experiencing this right now. While we've never changed our lifestyle or actually gotten any extra money out of it, my FIL recently passed away and we are most likely going to sell our house and take his. We have to buy out my SIL but we will be mortgage free once we do it and have zero debt.

She's going to come out way ahead of us cash wise but we don't care. We've done fine on our own with no help all these years and would rather have the RE and no debt. Plus, she has kids and we don't so they need the cash more than we do anyway.

Sandman98 said:

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I think we're seeing wealth and asset transfer from boomers beginning to drive the lifestyle of a heck of a lot of people. People don't usually tell you about that source of wealth.

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As I was reading this thread I was going to post this same thing. Either from the older generation passing on and wealth transferring thru inheritance, or a lot of folks starting their gifting while they are still alive, there is a lot of stored up wealth changing hands.

chris1515 said:

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Sandman98 said:

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I think we're seeing wealth and asset transfer from boomers beginning to drive the lifestyle of a heck of a lot of people. People don't usually tell you about that source of wealth.

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As I was reading this thread I was going to post this same thing. Either from the older generation passing on and wealth transferring thru inheritance, or a lot of folks starting their gifting while they are still alive, there is a lot of stored up wealth changing hands.

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We also need to keep in mind that when the Dems took control in 2020 one of their wish list items was to reduce the estate tax limit from $11.7M all the way down to $3.5M or $5M. Many boomers started transferring assets early in anticipation of that change.

Obviously the change was later cut but they will come after it again.

pfo said:

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Household debt tops $16 trillion in June!
So there's your answer. Americans are going further in debt than ever before.

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And incomes are going up. I know big numbers sound scary, but without the full picture it's just a number. Also, obviously, it depends how much of that debt is secured by assets vs something like credit card debt.

We live what many on this board would consider an expensive lifestyle... We have zero debt and we're still cash flowing over half our take home pay into the stock market. I think some of y'all underestimate the power of dual income, no kids households.

Yes.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Dr. Doctor said:

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Not to sound too much like a $35k millionaire, but what kind of debt are we talking about?

Having a mortgage, but it is less than 20% of your take home pay? Or are we talking about 2 car leases that take up 40% of your THP and you have 0% going to some sort of retirement AND you pay minimums on your CC and have to call in and/or pay off a little bit more to prevent them from freezing your next CC?

I do wonder about seeing neighbors with 'new' things in the driveway. I remember at my old house that I'd see someone, who just bought a new house, have 2 new cars and a boat in the driveway. Wife stayed at home and husband was XOM employee (pipeline). And to make things even more fun, they put in a pool, outdoor kitchen and other 'upgrades' to the house.

How in God's name do you pay for all that?

~egon

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probably middle level mgmt - so making 200k a year or so. Big bonuses/stock programs.

People finance boats/rvs over 10-15 years all the time.

But yeah, lots of debt there I'm sure - not necessarily bad debt.

I can't stomach looking at pool prices (we want to put one in). A fully loaded package with outdoor kitchen easily runs $175k+ these days. gross.

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Nope. He was a worker. Pipeline inspection. Had a XOM company truck and would go out to do the work. Moved down from east Texas. No degree, but worked for 15+ years for them.

Even better for that scenario was that he was paying for things for his three grown daughters.

~egon

It seems like all my friends are either really rich or really struggling. It's crazy how many people are really rich these days. And the people I know who are buying houses and cars and second and third houses are not in debt or making unwise decisions - they are just legitimately rich.

CapCity12thMan said:

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I think it is more common to find people who have their "parents lake house" or "<insert relative here> place in the mountains or beach" than it is to find some Joe from corp world who has bought a second beach/lake/mountain home on their own with no assistance. People die, their assets go somewhere. Some people are beneficiaries of that process that makes their corp life living much easier.

I know a couple who lived in their parents "other house" for 5 years while waiting for their house to be built. 5 years mortgage and tax free. I wish I had that luxury. That enables so much more for investing, spending, or both.

$350k in the hole at age 69 - I mean shame on everyone in that family for getting to that point.

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I agree, shame on the family. But could very well be that nobody knows. Parents may be too proud and are acting like everything is grand to the family.

Why?

htxag09 said:

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CapCity12thMan said:

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I think it is more common to find people who have their "parents lake house" or "<insert relative here> place in the mountains or beach" than it is to find some Joe from corp world who has bought a second beach/lake/mountain home on their own with no assistance. People die, their assets go somewhere. Some people are beneficiaries of that process that makes their corp life living much easier.

I know a couple who lived in their parents "other house" for 5 years while waiting for their house to be built. 5 years mortgage and tax free. I wish I had that luxury. That enables so much more for investing, spending, or both.

$350k in the hole at age 69 - I mean shame on everyone in that family for getting to that point.

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I agree, shame on the family. But could very well be that nobody knows. Parents may be too proud and are acting like everything is grand to the family.

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this screams parents living way above their means and sending kids to private school for image...

$200k in student loans, STILL? that's insane. Are the kids useless and can't pay for it themselves?

I also see why some parents would just saddle the debt... it's unsecured and doesn't go with them when they die.

Bird Poo said:

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Ag CPA said:

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I think you will see the travel spending cut back starting next spring as people finish sowing their oats after the past two years and get back to a normal routine. In the meantime they have to get those winter ski and beach vacations in that they have been putting off.

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I tried to book a Disney cruise next summer. Completely booked all over the country for a group of 6.

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Interesting; we just finished a 5-night Disney out of Miami and it was half empty.

zagman said:

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Go to Pluckers on a Tuesday night. There isn't a line of rich people or people who were gifted gift cards waiting to pay $17.99 for some wings and fries. It isn't even a line made up of middle class dads. It's the common workforce man and his family.

People literally have no idea how to cook, clean, or provide for themselves. All they know is money in = money available to go out.

Ignore this board full of $250k millionaires who pick up pennies off the street to afford a high end watch in 5 years. This board is completely detached from the every day human. The vast majority of this country is stupid and poor. The next major bubble to pop is going to be the credit bubble. and it's going to be painful.

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completely agree

stats are backing up that credit card debt is at an all time high and savings rate at a low

wait until the social security system collapses in 2031

Ag CPA said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Ag CPA said:

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I think you will see the travel spending cut back starting next spring as people finish sowing their oats after the past two years and get back to a normal routine. In the meantime they have to get those winter ski and beach vacations in that they have been putting off.

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I tried to book a Disney cruise next summer. Completely booked all over the country for a group of 6.

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Interesting; we just finished a 5-night Disney out of Miami and it was half empty.

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drove from the Maryland suburbs of DC to Manhattan and back from saturday to monday

almost zero traffic standstills other than the Lincoln Tunnel

and in DC all summer long- no traffic backups on the beltway on the weekends

have not seen that in more than a decade

Bird Poo said:

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Ag CPA said:

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I think you will see the travel spending cut back starting next spring as people finish sowing their oats after the past two years and get back to a normal routine. In the meantime they have to get those winter ski and beach vacations in that they have been putting off.

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I tried to book a Disney cruise next summer. Completely booked all over the country for a group of 6.

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I just did a mock book, there are plenty of rooms available on Disney cruises next summer. I picked the 7 day, 6/17/23 western Caribb. easily 100 rooms left of just the family stateroom verandah.. let alone the non patio and inner rooms. Even both Walt and Roy Disney Suites are available, which is pretty rare, those are usually snatched up first day of availability, which was 4 months ago.

Did you try to book 2 rooms or just 1? Disney cruises staterooms only hold 5, unless you book a suite which is highly limited.

That is a sad story, and you're right, more common than we'd like to think I bet.

Inflation pulls purchases forward. Basically people will buy now while they can still afford to do so.

I used to really fret over situations like this but having been in banking seemingly forever I no longer do. It's not something I see every day or every week but the situation with the blind sided widow you described isn't alone.

Gordon McKernan said:

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My mom had a friend whose husband passed away from a sudden heart attack. He was late 50's. They lived in a very large/expensive home on a golf course, belonged to a very prestigious country club. Drove BMWs only. Took fancy trips, etc...

The husband handled the finances & wife had no idea about any of it. After he died she was very surprised to find out they had no savings, little investments, minimal equity on the house, leased cars, credit card debt, kids student loan debt, minimal life insurance on him, etc...

I'm sure this happens a lot more than we'd like to think.

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It's not what you make that counts. It's what you save.

it's not that hard to appear well off without having to actually spend that much and without going into debt

my after tax/contributions take home is below 6 figures, investing over 50% of net, 0 debt, and living on <40K a year expenses but no one would be able tell that-
beach house 1 block from sand in Newport Beach (grandfathered below market rent with 2 friends, so still paying less than typical 1br apt in TX)
drive a 16 Jaguar XJ looks like a new 75K+ car but cash deal for less than a new Camry
travel hacking
every wkd on boats, vip tables, mansion/venue parties etc just through having connected friends and bringing lotta women around, so minimal spend for lotta entertainment
even though watches are a decent investment, mine is a (very good) replica Omega from AliExpress, just wouldn't want to have something that valuable and so susceptible of getting lost/stolen on me
don't really eat out often or spend much a bars- 4 figure monthly expense for many out here

essentially I make marginally enough to live comfortably but not extravagantly in this HCOL area, but minimize/budget enough to be able to live comfortably enough while still investing heavily, and hack my way into some extravagance on top, staying single is the biggest key