If I were making the decision, I'd probably still pay them. Unless there were extenuating "burn the bridges" circumstances.

But, I'd advise that employee they are a dumbass for not managing the timing better in this case.

I think companies should, but many don't. I have worked for companies that I would trust to pay out and others that I would not. That said... I might be willing to tell a boss that I'm thinking about leaving, but I don't think I would ever give formal notice until I've got the money.

We had a guy give 4 weeks notice one time. He warned to burn two weeks vacation then come back and work the final 2 weeks. Nah bro.

I just want to get to the point that I can announce my retirement a year early...immediately transition into a non-leadership position, still collect my same pay for said year while not actually show up to work anymore, and then get the end of year bonuses.

At that point, I actually retire. That is my goal.

JSKolache said:

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We had a guy give 4 weeks notice one time. He warned to burn two weeks vacation then come back and work the final 2 weeks. Nah bro.

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Your remaining employees have learned to take the two weeks off, then put in their two weeks notice on their return.

IrishTxAggie said:

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If they're not employed at year end, they didn't earn a year end bonus. They're not there at the end of the year.

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A bonus can be given out whenever, for work performed whenever. It's solely employer's decision. There is no rule or law regulating this.

I've already received my bonus, you think if I quit they'd take it back because I wasn't employed on 12/31?

This is silly argument.

62strat said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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If they're not employed at year end, they didn't earn a year end bonus. They're not there at the end of the year.

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A bonus can be given out whenever, for work performed whenever. It's solely employer's decision. There is no rule or law regulating this.

I've already received my bonus, you think if I quit they'd take it back because I wasn't employed on 12/31?

This is silly argument.

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Then don't call it a "year end bonus"

A "year end bonus" is just that; you were there until year end. Obviously bonuses are discretionary, but if I'm giving out a "year end bonus" your ass will be employed at year end.

IrishTxAggie said:

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62strat said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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If they're not employed at year end, they didn't earn a year end bonus. They're not there at the end of the year.

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A bonus can be given out whenever, for work performed whenever. It's solely employer's decision. There is no rule or law regulating this.

I've already received my bonus, you think if I quit they'd take it back because I wasn't employed on 12/31?

This is silly argument.

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Then don't call it a "year end bonus"

A "year end bonus" is just that; you were there until year end. Obviously bonuses are discretionary, but if I'm giving out a "year end bonus" your ass will be employed at year end.

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The name of the bonus has no implied stipulations.

It's completely discretionary, that's the point. You can't speak on the rules of this person's employer, because, you aren't his employer. they can call it whatever they want, and pay it out however they want.

62strat said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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62strat said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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If they're not employed at year end, they didn't earn a year end bonus. They're not there at the end of the year.

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A bonus can be given out whenever, for work performed whenever. It's solely employer's decision. There is no rule or law regulating this.

I've already received my bonus, you think if I quit they'd take it back because I wasn't employed on 12/31?

This is silly argument.

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Then don't call it a "year end bonus"

A "year end bonus" is just that; you were there until year end. Obviously bonuses are discretionary, but if I'm giving out a "year end bonus" your ass will be employed at year end.

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The name of the bonus has no implied stipulations.

It's completely discretionary, that's the point. You can't speak on the rules of this person's employer, because, you aren't his employer.

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The OP said it was an end of year bonus, so its fair to assume that would be a stipulation. I'm not telling someone what they can and can't do with distributing bonuses, but if my employee wanted to be a part of a "year end bonus", then the employee would need to be employed at the end of the year.

IrishTxAggie said:

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62strat said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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62strat said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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If they're not employed at year end, they didn't earn a year end bonus. They're not there at the end of the year.

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A bonus can be given out whenever, for work performed whenever. It's solely employer's decision. There is no rule or law regulating this.

I've already received my bonus, you think if I quit they'd take it back because I wasn't employed on 12/31?

This is silly argument.

---

Then don't call it a "year end bonus"

A "year end bonus" is just that; you were there until year end. Obviously bonuses are discretionary, but if I'm giving out a "year end bonus" your ass will be employed at year end.

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The name of the bonus has no implied stipulations.

It's completely discretionary, that's the point. You can't speak on the rules of this person's employer, because, you aren't his employer.

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The OP said it was an end of year bonus, so its fair to assume that would be a stipulation. I'm not telling someone what they can and can't do with distributing bonuses, but if my employee wanted to be a part of a "year end bonus", then the employee would need to be employed at the end of the year.

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from OP:
"checks will be given out during the two weeks they are still here".

So they are there at the 'year end', which is when the checks go out. You aren't giving a bonus out for time not worked yet.

At the end of the day, companies will get the employees they deserve. You treat people bad when they are trying to leave on good terms, you get bad actors moving forward.

Companies will let you go at the drop of a hat, I've never understood why you had to risk your livelihood for a formality. The company will survive.

If you want to make certain to get the bonus, you stay until the bonus is paid out. Then put in the notice. The bonus is for THIS year's performance. Not next year's. So stay until it is paid.

It's not personal, or even disloyal. It's just business.

Tumble Weed said:

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JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:

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Tumble Weed said:

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I wouldn't pay it unless I liked the person and wished them well.

I had employees that I really cared for, and some that I wanted to get rid of but couldn't because they were just competent enough to not get fired.

Everyone knows that a bonus is not guaranteed. If it was it would just be salary.

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I would never do anything based on "if I liked the person"....that seems very dangerous, even in an employer friendly state like Texas (assuming you're here)...

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Being likable is underrated. I learned a long time ago that it is more important to be liked than to be right.

When you are an a-hole everyone just wants to see you trip up and fail. When you are liked, everyone is rooting for your success. I have met several idiots with prosperous careers based on this simple fact.

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Oh, I totally agree with all of that - I have a great relationship with many of my past co-workers and bosses and agree.

I'm saying that in an increasingly litigious society, I wouldn't dole out bonuses purely based on who you like and who you don't - seems like you're setting yourself up to be sued by a vengeful employee/ex-employee at some point.

jm94 said:

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JSKolache said:

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We had a guy give 4 weeks notice one time. He warned to burn two weeks vacation then come back and work the final 2 weeks. Nah bro.

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Your remaining employees have learned to take the two weeks off, then put in their two weeks notice on their return.

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no one should have had to 'learn' that.

At a previous company, if you took an extended time off, everyone always half expected you to put in notice as soon as you returned.

barney94 said:

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If you want to make certain to get the bonus, you stay until the bonus is paid out. Then put in the notice. The bonus is for THIS year's performance. Not next year's. So stay until it is paid.

It's not personal, or even disloyal. It's just business.

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This is what I'm doing. I don't want to leave my company, but I've got a great offer to go elsewhere. I wish my current company would promote me but it's just not going to happen until they have an opening.

Anyways, I negotiated a start date until the middle of January that will allow me to Collect my bonus THEN give my two weeks notice. I really want to do the right thing and leave ok good terms. But I'm also not going to be passing up a check that is 40% of my salary.

Vernada said:

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jm94 said:

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JSKolache said:

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We had a guy give 4 weeks notice one time. He warned to burn two weeks vacation then come back and work the final 2 weeks. Nah bro.

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Your remaining employees have learned to take the two weeks off, then put in their two weeks notice on their return.

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no one should have had to 'learn' that.

At a previous company, if you took an extended time off, everyone always half expected you to put in notice as soon as you returned.

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My current employer doesn't pay out PTO balance on your departure - all the more reason to bleed it down before leaving.

What state?

Must be nice getting bonuses paid out in December. Ours get paid in April.

agdaddy04 said:

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What state?

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I'm in WA, but they're based on MN.

Ah, apparently you're in one of the few states that doesn't require payout. Minnesota does, so it's kind of surprising they don't go by their home state rules.

Now what about an employee that quits January 2, 2020 and the company pays profit sharing as a bonus in March for the previous year? I've started to see this more and more. Often even tied to performance requirements of the employee / group.

The excuses finance has given is it's easier on cashflow. It sure seems like an excuse to try and draw out payout as long as possible. If it's specifically labeled as being for the previous year and distribution amount published internally, how would they not be required to pay it.

AgLA06 said:

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Now what about an employee that quits January 2, 2020 and the company pays profit sharing as a bonus in March for the previous year? I've started to see this more and more. Often even tied to performance requirements of the employee / group.

The excuses finance has given is it's easier on cashflow. It sure seems like an excuse to try and draw out payout as long as possible. If it's specifically labeled as being for the previous year and distribution amount published internally, how would they not be required to pay it.

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We pay out in this scenario. Fiscal ends 5/31.. bonus/profit sharing announced after q4 earnings end of June. Paid first check of Aug.

If you quit 6/1, you still get paid in Aug.

My previous company only paid out if you were still working there. And the time it took to pay kept getting pushed out. When I left last year I qualified for my 2nd quarter bonus, so I waited 45 days to turn in my notice.

Casey TableTennis said:

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Doing the right thing isn't that hard.... assuming you are in a culture that values doing the right thing.

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IMO this has nothing to do with "doing the right thing". Not sure how putting in two weeks right after bonus payout is unethical. In the hypothetical, the bonus was earned in the previous year and you stayed on per the policy so that you received payout for work already completed. You were looking out for number one according to published policies. There is not one single unethical thing about that.

barney94 said:

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If you want to make certain to get the bonus, you stay until the bonus is paid out. Then put in the notice. The bonus is for THIS year's performance. Not next year's. So stay until it is paid.

It's not personal, or even disloyal. It's just business.

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Hadn't read to second page when I posted. You said it better than me.

Employers treat Americans employees like trash.

Some years ago, I got laid off along with 35 other people. The HR people stood around me (and the others) like hawks as if we were criminals.

In September I got laid off at a Canadian company. My Canadian boss told me I was free to take the day off to process this, I was also free to fly back from Canada back to the US (I live in the US, company is in Canada and I flew a few times a month) if I wanted and he would approve the charges. And most important they gave me 6 weeks time as a regular employee before I had to leave. Not kicked out of the building right away. Also eligible for bonus for the time I had worked. Until then I was not curtailed on anything, had my laptop, accounts everything. Then after that I got 6 weeks severance. Now that's a way to humanely deal with laying people off which itself usually means the employer screwed up.

In the US, we need to learn to treat people right. We treat people like crap and call it "capitalism".

Anyway, I will be starting my new job from tomorrow, with 25% more pay and better work so it all worked out for me.

The reputation damage with your remaining employees from not paying will far exceed the cost of the bonus. Pay them and end on a high note. This sort of thing is the difference between leadership and management.

The last company I worked at pays bonuses 3.5 months after the fiscal year ends, and you have to be there to collect. You're also not eligible for bonus if you start less than 4 months prior to the end of the year, which means you could work there for over 19 months and not get a bonus. You're almost guaranteed to miss a bonus, and there's no way to collect your full earned bonus without getting severed.

I worked for a few years for a 100 +\- person professional services company to leave for a firm that directly competes and they paid me out a quarterly bonus not only after my notice, but after my term date. I still talk highly about them in professional circles and if circumstances were different I would go back. Reputation matters.

In contrast another firm promised me (verbal and written) a commission on a client relationship, strung me out for a year and then screwed me over. I trash them politely when I can but guess what - their whole business has fallen apart due to
how they treat their people - and people talk.

Yeah, from the company's perspective, not paying it would be a form of the old penny wise, pound foolish principle IMO.

IrishTxAggie said:

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If they're not employed at year end, they didn't earn a year end bonus. They're not there at the end of the year.

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Agreed. Read the company policy on the bonus program. I was in a similar situation. I resigned the Monday after the check cleared because the policy stated one must be employed and not submit a resignation priori to receiving the check.

Tumble Weed said:

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I wouldn't pay it unless I liked the person and wished them well.

I had employees that I really cared for, and some that I wanted to get rid of but couldn't because they were just competent enough to not get fired.

Everyone knows that a bonus is not guaranteed. If it was it would just be salary.

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Just curious - in this scenario do you give a bonus to the employee that you don't like and does just enough to not get fired, but is staying with you into the next year.

I was a partner in a firm that the controlling partner would pay people up to the hour they were terminated. Didn't matter if they had worked for him for 10 years. It was brutal. Then he would be pissed when someone would leave and not give any notice.

After I took a buyout to leave, he sat down all of the department managers and laid out a bonus program in writing that based upon the profitability in their department they would be bonused at the end of the year. He managed along with his son what was historically the largest division. Two of the department heads killed it the next year and were owed large bonuses but his division had struggled. He sat them down and said he was not going to pay the bonuses because the overall company profitability had to be factored into the calculation. They both quit on the spot and shortly after two other department managers left as well. He was left with just his division. They all went to competitors and gutted his business. His 18 million a year in gross revenue went to 2 million inside of 2 years. It was marvelous.

Illustrious Potentate said:

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Tumble Weed said:

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I wouldn't pay it unless I liked the person and wished them well.

I had employees that I really cared for, and some that I wanted to get rid of but couldn't because they were just competent enough to not get fired.

Everyone knows that a bonus is not guaranteed. If it was it would just be salary.

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Just curious - in this scenario do you give a bonus to the employee that you don't like and does just enough to not get fired, but is staying with you into the next year.

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Bonus was based on merit and was highly variable. Not the same across the board. I also gave raises when I felt like it, if the employee was worth retaining.

Someone could be a useless bump on a log and make less than someone who had less seniority and kicked ass. One gets cost of living raise at the end of the year, one gets a raise after a few months in.

Seniority is overrated. Performance is what counts. Pay the performers.