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USAA Bank Fraud

14,082 Views | 79 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by LOYAL AG
ATXAdvisor
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AG
I've been a USAA member for nearly 30 years. On Monday, they sent me notification that a $5k transfer from my checking account to my 15 year-old-daughter's account took place. After confirming that no one in my house had done the transfer, I immediately called, only to learn that USAA had allowed the funds to be withdrawn from her account via an ATM the same day. This out of an account with an average daily balance of around $400 for the couple of years it has been open.

They then said I had had them rush an ATM card to 3rd party address the week before. I told them I had not and to please freeze the account. They said I should hear back from them in three biz days after they had time to investigate. I also updated all of my login and security questions that evening.

On Thursday, I checked my phone after getting off a plane only to learn there had been another $5k transferred to my daughter's account and ATM withdrawals were taking place. I immediately called and was told that I had called back on Tuesday and told them the fraud claim was a mistake.

They had lifted the freeze as a result of the fraudster calling back in! Before I could digest that, the rep told me the fraudster was on the phone at that moment claiming to be me asking to release funds.

Today, USAA emailed my daughter, not me, with a message "After a thorough investigation, we have determined that the above transaction is not fraudulent. We based our decision on the information we had available at the time of our review. This concludes our investigation, and no further action will be taken."

We'll see about that. You have choices, you may want to avoid USAA.

UPDATE (Tuesday 8/1/18): I just got off the phone with USAA, and they have made me whole (with the assistance of Fidelity Investments). I also have the rest of the story as to how the fraud occurred.

The crooks spoofed my home telephone number and called into USAA with my wife and daughter's names and DOBs. With that small amount of info plus the spoofed number, USAA allowed them to request a debit card to be sent to an alternate address. They also allowed the limit for ATM withdrawals to be increased due to the caller indicating some urgent need. One real disturbing aspect of this was that my wife isn't authorized on my daughter's account (I'm the custodian), yet they allowed the crook impersonating my wife to request the ACH transfer from Fidelity (this account was previously linked to my daughter's account).

More concerning was that USAA allowed the same caller using the same spoofed number and limited info to close my fraud claim after I had reported it. This is also why they sent me correspondence saying the claim had been investigated and had been determined to not be fraud.

A detail I previously had not mentioned is that I had contacted Fidelity Investments the evening (Monday) the initial fraud was detected, as even though USAA had credited my account there for the ACH transaction and had already allowed ATM withdrawals, the Fidelity account had not yet been debited. I asked Fido to freeze my account. Unfortunately, the manager I spoke to failed to do that. When I called them back on Thursday to inform them of the second unauthorized transfer, not only did they close my account before it could be debited a second time, they went ahead and refunded me the original $4,750 in recognition that they should have closed the account on Monday. Kudos to them.

I will say that USAA's attitude changed dramatically when I started posting this story on their own Community Forums, their Facebook page, and Twitter. I received a call from the CEO's office on Saturday morning assuring me that they had failed and that I would be made whole. I would have preferred to not have to have done all of this so publicly, but maybe there are lessons everyone can learn from my pain.

It even inspired a blog article with some tips for everyone. Be careful out there, folks.
JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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Sorry man - that sounds terrible.
Ham Slice MRE
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That sucks. Please update us, i have also been a member for a long time.
FC12
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I'm a USAA member and they always ask for my phone password when I call in...someone know your phone password?
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ATXAdvisor
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third coast.. said:

Watching. 15 year member. Never had any issues. Definitely sounds like someone you know knows your info. I really hate to say it, but you really need to talk to your daughter.


There is no way she knows my login ID, password, PIN, and security questions. She also wasn't in Dallas (we live in Austin) when the ATM withdrawals occurred. Oh, and she darn sure didn't know any of those credentials after I changed them and USAA then took additional withdrawal instructions from the fraudster.

You sound like a USAA customer service rep.
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FC12
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Easy...you can do all of the banking via phone with a phone password. You don't need to log in. You may ask if the phone conversations are recorded. Someone knows your password or is guessing and the agent is saying "good enough".
ATM9000
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ATXAdvisor said:

third coast.. said:

Watching. 15 year member. Never had any issues. Definitely sounds like someone you know knows your info. I really hate to say it, but you really need to talk to your daughter.


There is no way she knows my login ID, password, PIN, and security questions. She also wasn't in Dallas (we live in Austin) when the ATM withdrawals occurred. Oh, and she darn sure didn't know any of those credentials after I changed them and USAA then took additional withdrawal instructions from the fraudster.

You sound like a USAA customer service rep.

If you really did all of that and it happened again right after all of that, it is 100% fair to question your family. I didn't say accuse, but definitely dig into it a little.

Those bank and fraud investigations aren't perfect but they see schemes and situations like this all the time... if they are saying their initial conclusion is that there's no fraud involved, it should raise some red flags.
ATXAdvisor
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FC12 said:

Easy...you can do all of the banking via phone with a phone password. You don't need to log in. You may ask if the phone conversations are recorded. Someone knows your password or is guessing and the agent is saying "good enough".


I would have bought that after the initial event. That they would unfreeze the account after the initial fraud claim and credentials change suggests I am TOTALLY compromised or they have big data breach. I have other accounts at different institutions with more money to steal than a minor's Christmas money that is linked to my account. You may be on to something of a fraudster had SOME info and bullied or charmed other info out of an inexperienced phone rep.

It still doesn't explain why a bank allows same day cash withdrawals when 10x balance deposits are made from an external account. Or why they would overnight an ATM card to a different city. Or why they would reopen the barn door after I told them the cows were getting out. Or why they would summarily reject my fraud claim with no explanation, even when they admit the fraudster called in while I was on the phone with them.

They are a ****show.
FC12
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Ask for phone records if there are any. Also, ask for the investigation report. @$10k, this is something the police need to know too and if an address is involved with the debit card, I would ge talking to the city's police dept.
ATXAdvisor
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FC12 said:

Ask for phone records if there are any. Also, ask for the investigation report. @$10k, this is something the police need to know too and if an address is involved with the debit card, I would ge talking to the city's police dept.


Roger that. I called the Addison PD, Dallas PD (where ATM withdrawals occurred), Dallas FBI and San Antonio FBI when I saw many similar situations posted on USAA's community website today, and the Travis County Sheriff's dept (where I live). I also asked USAA for all of their records, but they have already been less than forthcoming with answers. (I.E. the address they overnighted an ATM card on my daughter's account).
aggie028
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I had fraud happen once and they wouldn't tell me the address of the offender. Very frustrating but wasn't Usaa.
Aston04
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Also, file a complaint with the attorney general. I worked at a major creditor's legal collections side (tons of disputes, obviously) and that always got our attention.
T Durden
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ATXAdvisor said:

FC12 said:

Easy...you can do all of the banking via phone with a phone password. You don't need to log in. You may ask if the phone conversations are recorded. Someone knows your password or is guessing and the agent is saying "good enough".


I would have bought that after the initial event. That they would unfreeze the account after the initial fraud claim and credentials change suggests I am TOTALLY compromised or they have big data breach. I have other accounts at different institutions with more money to steal than a minor's Christmas money that is linked to my account. You may be on to something of a fraudster had SOME info and bullied or charmed other info out of an inexperienced phone rep.

It still doesn't explain why a bank allows same day cash withdrawals when 10x balance deposits are made from an external account. Or why they would overnight an ATM card to a different city. Or why they would reopen the barn door after I told them the cows were getting out. Or why they would summarily reject my fraud claim with no explanation, even when they admit the fraudster called in while I was on the phone with them.

They are a ****show.


$10K is Christmas money? Can you adopt me and my family?

Seriously. I hope you get it resolved. Sounds shady...
Phat32
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Wonder if this is widespread due to some other beach USAA is covering up.
CivilAg10
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Wow, saw they drained 5k from an atm. Was curious and looked it up, and my bank imposes a $400 daily atm limit.
ATXAdvisor
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T Durden said:

ATXAdvisor said:

FC12 said:

Easy...you can do all of the banking via phone with a phone password. You don't need to log in. You may ask if the phone conversations are recorded. Someone knows your password or is guessing and the agent is saying "good enough".


I would have bought that after the initial event. That they would unfreeze the account after the initial fraud claim and credentials change suggests I am TOTALLY compromised or they have big data breach. I have other accounts at different institutions with more money to steal than a minor's Christmas money that is linked to my account. You may be on to something of a fraudster had SOME info and bullied or charmed other info out of an inexperienced phone rep.

It still doesn't explain why a bank allows same day cash withdrawals when 10x balance deposits are made from an external account. Or why they would overnight an ATM card to a different city. Or why they would reopen the barn door after I told them the cows were getting out. Or why they would summarily reject my fraud claim with no explanation, even when they admit the fraudster called in while I was on the phone with them.

They are a ****show.


$10K is Christmas money? Can you adopt me and my family?

Seriously. I hope you get it resolved. Sounds shady...


No, $400 was the Christmas and Birthday $ combined. The $10k was in my checking account at another institution, but there was an ACH link set up at USAA that I used to occasionally transfer small amounts.
ATXAdvisor
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CivilAg10 said:

Wow, saw they drained 5k from an atm. Was curious and looked it up, and my bank imposes a $400 daily atm limit.



How about on your minor child's account on the same day a deposit for 10x it's avg daily balance was made? It's insane all the way around.
AggiePlaya
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Withdraw and close the account immediately. It sounds like ALL of your info was stolen, likely from your PC or some electronic means. I would think about using a new computer and discarding the old one. If they hacked into a computer or device, they could be grabbing all info they need anytime u type.
FC12
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CivilAg10 said:

Wow, saw they drained 5k from an atm. Was curious and looked it up, and my bank imposes a $400 daily atm limit.



That's actually a good point...while you can have USAA change your withdrawal amount, ATM's themselves only allow single withdrawals at $400ish...that person would have been sitting at that ATM for a while making multiple transactions. Whoever it was is on video doing it.
rgag12
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third coast.. said:

Watching. 15 year member. Never had any issues. Definitely sounds like someone you know knows your info. I really hate to say it, but you really need to talk to your daughter.


That's my first thought as well, this sounds like someone who knows you or your daughter's personal information very well. All bank transactions I've done usually involve multiple personal questions/hoops to jump through to make sure it's me.
ATXAdvisor
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rgag12 said:

third coast.. said:

Watching. 15 year member. Never had any issues. Definitely sounds like someone you know knows your info. I really hate to say it, but you really need to talk to your daughter.


That's my first thought as well, this sounds like someone who knows you or your daughter's personal information very well. All bank transactions I've done usually involve multiple personal questions/hoops to jump through to make sure it's me.


Agree that my info has been compromised. The initial breach was pretty disturbing, but it was the second unauthorized transfer AFTER I had reported the fraud and changed credentials that was really scary. Also, was disappointed to learn that USAA had some other security measures (I.e. verbal passphrase) that could have been added once the breach was reported. It was like no one there really GAF until the second theft. Even though I am closing all of my USAA accounts, I'm now sold on adding as much inconvenience to my logins as possible (pass phrases, 2 Factor, randomly generated passwords, etc). I'll be very interested if USAA will provide me documentation for all of the transactions that led to theft. So far, they haven't. To their credit, the became somewhat responsive aftet I went nuclear on social media and with law enforcement yesterday, having let me know they are reopening the investigation this AM. If they do the right thing, I'll let y'all know.
Ag92NGranbury
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watching..

i have a small bank account there because i'm required to by using the 2.5% back visa card
rhtexfish
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https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards

Helpful info. That ATM limit is way above standard. Also your liability should be very limited if identified reported quickly.
Diggity
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Great info!
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bmks270
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Wait so is this just you or is it happening to other people too? The fact the fraud alert was lifted is very concerning.
OldArmyBrent
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That's interesting. They need to fire everyone involved in identifying fraud at USAA. Every time I put gas in my airplane at my home airport they shut down both my USAA credit cards for suspected fraud. I call them immediately and ask them how to fix the problem every time and they suggest I put some sort of "travel notification" on the account but tell me I will be liable for any fraud that happens when I do that. I've been in Wisconsin all week using one of the cards and not a peep from USAA.
ClickClack
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third coast.. said:

To get more than the daily limit out of the ATM you have to call and have the limit temporarily increased. I've done it several times when mashing large cash purchases. There ask you what amount and when you need it.

You can up it for 1-2 days through the USAA app.
fish_rich
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More and more banks are decreasing the number of bank tellers and have automated machines inside the bank. The machines inside the bank do not have the same daily limits for withdraws. It is treated more like a regular withdrawal not an ATM withdrawal. And if the transfer is an ach then I believe funds are available immediately because they aren't waiting on a check deposit to clear.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there is somebody on the inside allowing things to happen that normally would have been prevented. I say this because I know in retail sometimes a cashier will take checks from friends and give them cash back and then the check bounces when the store deposits it. They usually figure out the pattern of who the cashier is when these checks are accepted to figure out who the insider is.
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John Francis Donaghy
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Too late to be helpful with this situation, but debit cards are just about the riskiest form of payment out there today. They are a direct link to your cash, and if they get compromised, your money is gone before you ever even know about it.

Not sure how much you trust your daughter's spending discipline, but you think she can handle it
this could be a good opportunity to teach some with a low limit credit card with good fraud protection policies behind it instead of using a debit card.
dallasiteinsa02
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John Francis Donaghy said:

Too late to be helpful with this situation, but debit cards are just about the riskiest form of payment out there today. They are a direct link to your cash, and if they get compromised, your money is gone before you ever even know about it.

Not sure how much you trust your daughter's spending discipline, but you think she can handle it
this could be a good opportunity to teach some with a low limit credit card with good fraud protection policies behind it instead of using a debit card.

Debit cards have a few weaknesses, but I wouldn't say they are the riskiest form of payment out there. One of the weaknesses is the leverage over the bank since the bank is not out the funds you are. This is short term because at some point even a credit card company is going to force you to take care of payment on a charge they deem valid. The other is that it is easier to access cash.

All that being said, I have found that my debit cards have a few protections that credit cards don't offer. I get a text every time my debit card is used. We have one credit card that we use for most transactions, but I tried to set a text up on the other cards that are rarely used and the credit card companies don't offer the technology.

The other biggest strength is there are quite a bit more laws to protect the consumer as it relates to bank fraud versus credit card fraud. You will find that one your start really pushing. The bank will have to put plans in place that a credit card company just is not required to do.
IslandAg76
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I have been a USAA member for 50 years.
I think they are still good but they ain't what they used to be.

I hope you post how this turns out...sounds like USAA has some "fixing" to do.
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