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*********Market update**********

16,369 Views | 66 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by FriscoKid
oldarmy1
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AG
Not sure why we stayed on an erroneous market correction thread that was over 2 years old, so creating a new thread for real time and forecast postings. I travel frequently and some airlines have wifi allowing for continual observation of markets.

I'd like to suggest this thread not have any posts on "picks" or predictions that were not previously posted in real time for validation. Trust me - no one wants to hear about our awesome "moves" that have no verification.

With those basic ground rules established, the current update is a macro-market look based on the posted recognition of a clear reversal spike from the most recent sell-off. The last postings on the old thread were ones validating the lower channel support volume with anticipation of a further move above recent consolidation at and slightly above that lower identified channel. Once we broke above short-term resistance this morning the DOW has "popped" positive by 221 points and S&P up over 23.

Day traders who have been buying the lower channel technicals will be looking to leverage their trading by taking a portion of those buys off the table, creating a natural protection against holding on to remaining shares. Professional day traders love nothing more than working with the "Houses" money.

Swing traders, like me, bought major positions on the 500+ down reversal day and hold looking for at least a 50% retracement upward towards the upper channel resistance. As previously indicated, that is around the 17,250 mark which makes a 50% retracement at 16,650 area. It doesn't mean a swing trader won't move on taking profits if certain stocks make quick larger jumps (10%+ ROI) in a short period. FB is an example of this on the charts.

When markets approach that mark Swing traders will lock in 100% of the profits. However, how they do so varies. My approach is typically a 2-phase strategy. I sell 50% of all buys outright. I then use options to protect any reversal back down. Example: If I am up $30k on Stock A, I take $15k in profits via 50% sale of stocks. Knowing I have $15k in profits in remaining 50% I will either buy Put options against those shares at a price as close to current stock price where the strike price costs no more than 20% of the remaining profits. In this example that would be no more than $3000 in Put options.

Depending on the underlying stock value I might instead SELL (become the market maker) CALL options against those remaining shares. I usually take this approach on high dollar stocks. FB is at $111. Entry price is $96.42. Let's say I was wanting to use the above approach right now. I sell 50% of 1000 shares meaning 500 x $14.58 = $7290 locked in profits. This leaves $7290 in unrealized profits that should continue to work higher over a trend period. I could sell 5 call options (each option is 100 shares of underlying stock so strike price is multiplied x 100). The Feb 19th FB $105 Strike Price is currently bid at $7.80 so for 500 shares I could sell 5 call options x $780 = $3900 I'm paid for giving some other guy the right to "call out" my 500 shares if the stock is trading above $105. That makes my effective sell price $105 + $7.80 = $112.80 or an aditional $1.80 more than the current $111 stock price. Conversely if FB drops back down then I have $3900 guaranteed as an offset to wherever the stock price goes. That is equivalent to $7.80/share for the 500 shares or $103.20 effective price.

Another nice thing about selling call options against stocks is that options degrade over time if there is no upward movement. Many times I have bought those call options back under $0.50 when the stock price is hovering around the strike price into options expiration. The best part? You can turn around and do it all over again on those same shares!

Happy trading!
Ragoo
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AG
Are you describing a covered call? How far out are you selling these calls? For same week, following week or several down the road?

Oops, I see feb19 call. So do you sit on that call until the 19th and the stock bis called away or the strike isn't met?
Ragoo
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AG
Additionally you are selling current in the money options, 105 being lower than current 111 price, why wouldn't they be immediately called away? I assume because the buy is really only wanting to trade the option and never buy the underlying stock?
FriscoKid
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AG
Love it!!! Great thread.

I will be looking at 16,260 and 16,760 for good fib levels, but that's splitting hairs.

I think the ~50% retracement is the right call.
oldarmy1
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AG
quote:
Additionally you are selling current in the money options, 105 being lower than current 111 price, why wouldn't they be immediately called away? I assume because the buy is really only wanting to trade the option and never buy the underlying stock?
Correct - they are buying to trade the call because if they "called out" the stock they would be paying $105 plus the option price which would be above what they could simply buy the stock.

To the other poster - oops - yes this is formally referred to as a "covered call" when selling calls against owned shares. I was so focused on the description that I didn't notice never using the term.

Finally, I hold the call until it is called out if stock moves higher. I would make a decision on buying the call back if the share price held in a range closer to the strike price ($105 in this example) as we approach Feb 19th expiration.
Bayou City
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Selling the call doesn't really make that much financial sense in your scenario. You're selling 50% of the upside potential while getting a ~7.5% downside buffer on the adjusted breakeven with a 1:1 loss ratio after the 7.5% buffer. Selling covered calls is for income generation or creating a spread vs. hedging. You could argue a benefit is that covered calls require no equity whereas uncovered calls require 100%, but in the scenario provided, the stock always walks over the covered call.
Confucius
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Took a large stake on UPRO at 48.80 yesterday afternoon. My sense is that we found the bottom and will trend up in the next couple months.
oldarmy1
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AG
Market close shows a perfect channel bounce is underway with DOW up 380. Zero surprises with 50% retracement target already in sight meaning profits being sealed up on a Friday.
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Ragoo
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Do you have a throw away email I can send you some more specific questions?
suburban cowboy
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oldarmy1
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quote:
Do you have a throw away email I can send you some more specific questions?
pfo
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Fascinating thread. Thank you old army for taking the time to coach us up!
FriscoKid
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AG
I hope you are kidding.
oldarmy1
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In the litany of market analysis the top 3 drivers right now are:

1) Japan goes negative interest rates trying to force financial institutions to lend money. This should end well. NOT!

2) Oil contracts expired giving temporary pop in oil prices above $30. In addition OPEC made noise about cutting back production. But with economic wizardry of Bozon the Clown Obama, and the gang of incompetent's, Iran oil will continue to be the wild card on production supply. Don't expect Iran to join in any production or export cuts to raise per barrel prices because they don't have to with Barry joining in giving them millions (well over a billion when factoring in economic sanction withholdings). Iran wants nothing more than for low oil prices to continue disruption to the U.S. economy. I won't go as far as predicting oil prices moving back under $30 but I bet they do, as early as next week. If you see oil heading that way you could easily factor it in with looking for the next market top, or at least volatility on the way.

3) U.S. interest rates. Japan's move will be seen as painting the Fed into a corner for stopping, or at least slowing, their planned interest rate increases. It might not work as the damage from years of ZPIR is done. They fired all those bullets and the impact was bascially large companies gaming the system to increase their coffers. Unemployment deepened and all the powder they try to ignite has been proven to be all show - just as predicted when it was being considered!
GigemCO2008
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Following, just wish I had $10k to play with.
oldarmy1
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quote:
Following, just wish I had $10k to play with.
We've all been there. However, the best thing for anyone who wants to learn how to trade is to use mock trading accounts. They have them for stocks, commodities and even options. Hone your skills. Try to think of it as your real money. Scottstrade uses a $100k free trading education account. You want to see how you emotionally handle risk as much as making sound trading decisions.

https://investorjunkie.com/14217/virtual-trading-account/
Confucius
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quote:
I hope you are kidding.
Well....if I'm wrong, my stop loss at 50 will net me a nice 3% gain for holding such a short time. As it stands, making 8% on the trade in a little over a day was a good, educated risk.
FriscoKid
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AG
Tokyo not getting a huge pop tonight. Looks like a slightly up day tomorrow for us then I am jumping in again with some puts.

What do you think? No reason to believe we won't hit one of the fib levels before selling starts again.
oldarmy1
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AG
I don't know. But I will when I see it. I wouldn't do anything late tomorrow even if an upday. We'll zig-zag along the way but it will be a while before the next top.

oldarmy1
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quote:
Market close shows a perfect channel bounce is underway with DOW up 380. Zero surprises with 50% retracement target already in sight meaning profits being sealed up on a Friday.


Reason you lock in profits or take hedging measures on a 400 point day is the liklihood of a pullback over the weekend. We are looking a 100+ down open that is pretty much meaningless on the technicals. We would have to give Friday's gains completely back to signal a failed reversal breakout. Watch to see if negative open quickly erased or if an "inside Fridays bar" consolidation day, above the last 7 days highs occurs. Either would signal a higher market move coming.
mhayden
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Great thread
Gator2_01
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I'll come back and post my trade screen shots when I get back to the US.

Right now, my limited technical analysis sees S&P trading in a sideways channel. The downtrend support is ~1890 and resistance is ~2008. Recent trading has shown 100 & 200 day MA also as support/resistance. The first resistance will probably be the 100MA which is trending to around 2000.

I bought a Feb16 Call Vertical on SPY (195/198). My break even point is $196.26, max profit of $870 is at $198.26, and max loss of ($630) is at $195. I'll stop out of the trade at a $250 loss.

I also sold a butterfly for COP this coming week. I think most of the bad news is already built into the price. We'll see!
oldarmy1
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Gator and Aggiemetal posting more complex options trades that will fry the brains of newer traders. Heaven help us.

I'm going to give basic technical/fundamental info and more gradually work towards straddles, butterflies and other terms that would be read as some kind of ranching or nature outing to novice/early education.

Oil down over $1.25. First major volume spike on DOW was at -141. Entry for day traders right there.
aggiebq03+
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Got a question that I'm sure seems dumb to some here.

What's the difference between a "day trader" and a "trader"?

Seems like you have to watch the market daily to be an effective trader as such drastic movements can happen in any single day. Is it just a difference in expecting to be able to make an actual profit every day vs. taking profits when it's the best opportunity?

Good thread.
FriscoKid
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That was a pretty good head fake this morning. Hoping it still has some legs to get higher and give me an entry point.
bmks270
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quote:
Got a question that I'm sure seems dumb to some here.

What's the difference between a "day trader" and a "trader"?

Seems like you have to watch the market daily to be an effective trader as such drastic movements can happen in any single day. Is it just a difference in expecting to be able to make an actual profit every day vs. taking profits when it's the best opportunity?

Good thread.


Day traders do not hold positions overnight. They open and close a position in the same day.

A swing trader may hold a position for a few days to weeks.

A trader can be a day trader or swing trader or do both types of trades.
OA_02
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I'm ready to move the bulk of my assets to cash after this last bounce. Do we think there is enough momentum to push above 16,500 or is this about as good as it's going to get?
FriscoKid
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AG
If you are OK taking the loss at 16.5K why would you not be OK with the loss at 16.4k?

You are already down almost 2K from the highs.

I only ask this question if your target is 16.5. If you thought we might get back to 18K again then it's a different story.

You are worried about an additional 0.8% to the good.
FriscoKid
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AG
And we are green for the day after opening down ~150.

We didn't follow the Euro selloff. Looking for an entry point (short) soon.
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oldarmy1
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Let's keep it clear - I've plainly stated that the markets will go south. It could start that next leg down at any time. We got a channel bounce that approached 50% but, when the trend is down, how high the bounce goes (or doesn't go) will factor into just how aggressive big money is dumping on the bounces

Lot of overnight red in the markets, although the Nikkei only slightly red. Still, after the 400 point breakout burst Friday we had an inside that Friday bar day yesterday. Futures showing same start into this mornings opening only deeper red. An opening peg below yesterday (-159 DOW futures lower than low -146 yesterday) is being bought pre-market by day traders looking for similar action as yesterday. Should markets open and then sink further day trader stops would actually create volitilaty downward as they hit stop losses.

A lot of room to the downside that would be meaningles drift consolidation again. It would take a complete failing of Friday's lows to have serious talk about the bounce being one and done.

Oil. Yuck. BP earnings pathetic. Profits down 91%. Exxon beat a tempered expectations number so don't expect XOM to have any sustained pop. Oil prices down 1.30 getting close to back under $30. Looks like winning that bet.

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oldarmy1
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Markets quickly eroded -222 and early day traders bailing.
oldarmy1
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I follow both but the DOW volume gives a much purer signal of institutional action.
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