Ask a CFP anything

18,928 Views | 121 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Harkrider 93
labmansid
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quote:
Find a CFP

following the no soliciting rule in the original post I will refrain from recommending for or against any practitioner or firm on this thread

The best idea always is a personal referral. Good luck!
OK, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood the no soliciting portion of your post. My apologies.

I guess at this point my main question is, can a for fee CFP really do that much better on returns than the average individual investor? It is said that most managed funds don't really do better than the general markets. How does a CFP compare to or differ from a managed fund?
txag2008
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quote:
First off, thanks for doing this.

For perspective: I'm currently 24 and saving to buy a home. I make 80K and have 50K saved up. I want to put 20% down and do a 15 year mortgage. Also, I'm contributing 6% to a 401K with employer match.

My question is, should I contribute to a Roth IRA while trying to save cash to buy a home?

I have a fair amount of expendable income, obviously. I'm currently netting about 3K a month. I just feel like I have too much cash and should be investing it. But at the same time I want to get to at least 75K before I buy a home.

Advice and feedback is truly appreciated.



My advice would be to not buy a $375,000 first time house.
bigtruckguy3500
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Really good info, neutics! I have no idea at this point how long I'll be in for, but if those reforms go through anytime in the next two administrations, I should be able to benefit. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Thanks.
nactownag
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quote:
quote:
Find a CFP

following the no soliciting rule in the original post I will refrain from recommending for or against any practitioner or firm on this thread

The best idea always is a personal referral. Good luck!
OK, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood the no soliciting portion of your post. My apologies.

I guess at this point my main question is, can a for fee CFP really do that much better on returns than the average individual investor? It is said that most managed funds don't really do better than the general markets. How does a CFP compare to or differ from a managed fund?



I think the value a CFP will bring is not in a better return. It could be but I think if you base your decision on that then you will eventually be disappointed.

The value is in the planning and ideas side of things as well as managing the emotional roller coaster that is the stock market.
Stive
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quote:
quote:
quote:
Find a CFP

following the no soliciting rule in the original post I will refrain from recommending for or against any practitioner or firm on this thread

The best idea always is a personal referral. Good luck!
OK, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood the no soliciting portion of your post. My apologies.

I guess at this point my main question is, can a for fee CFP really do that much better on returns than the average individual investor? It is said that most managed funds don't really do better than the general markets. How does a CFP compare to or differ from a managed fund?



I think the value a CFP will bring is not in a better return. It could be but I think if you base your decision on that then you will eventually be disappointed.

The value is in the planning and ideas side of things as well as managing the emotional roller coaster that is the stock market.

This
BPCAg05
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quote:
quote:
However, for the most part life cycle funds have been shown to be inefficient risk/return vehicles and I do not recommend them.
Are you referring to the typical "Fund that is diversified across domestic/international markets and adjusts stock/bonds percentages based on proximity to retirement"? An example would be "Fidelity Freedom 2035" or "Vanguard Retirement 2040" funds. If so, then I'd be very interested to see any sort of backup for this statement.


I'm curious as well.
cheeky
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quote:
quote:
quote:
However, for the most part life cycle funds have been shown to be inefficient risk/return vehicles and I do not recommend them.
Are you referring to the typical "Fund that is diversified across domestic/international markets and adjusts stock/bonds percentages based on proximity to retirement"? An example would be "Fidelity Freedom 2035" or "Vanguard Retirement 2040" funds. If so, then I'd be very interested to see any sort of backup for this statement.


I'm curious as well.

In recent years numerous white papers have been published on this subject. This article cites one of them and addresses my comment that they have been shown to be risk inefficient. However, risk inefficienies are but one shortcoming of these "set it and forget it" strategies, the whole of which is far beyond the scope and spirit of this thread. I did not state that they are not easy and I did not state that they are not cheap as most of them are both. As well, most of them are poorly executed and flawed under scrutiny. Use them if you wish; they'll do little harm (i.e. not likely to blow up a portfolio), but there are better solutions. The good news is that the investor won't know it, or care.

Remember, no hurt feelings! Next question.
Ragoo
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I am meeting with my family's cfp on Monday. This is an initial meeting. What are some questions you would suggest a first time person walking into these meeting ask? I am in of a unique situation because I know this person has my best interests in mind, been managing family money a long time, was a long time co-worker of my grandfather at merryl. Figured there are others that may want to know a prompt of sorts.
cheeky
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quote:
I am meeting with my family's cfp on Monday. This is an initial meeting. What are some questions you would suggest a first time person walking into these meeting ask? I am in of a unique situation because I know this person has my best interests in mind, been managing family money a long time, was a long time co-worker of my grandfather at merryl. Figured there are others that may want to know a prompt of sorts.
hmmm...

I suppose I would want to know his service model:
*who will I meet with and how often (maybe this person is on a team)?
*what is the fee schedule and at what point, if any, is there a break point?
*what services are included in the fee, and what is not?

Investment Philosopy

If it's not a major bank/broker-dealer:
*describe the safety and secutiry of my account assets
*where are the assets held in custody?
*name of independent auditor

And if this person is up there in age, ask about their succession plan.

That would be a good start. Congrats on taking the next step!
RangerRick9211
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quote:
People harp on fees all day long, but it's overdone. If you're paying a CFP 1-1.5% per year that isn't going to make the difference in your long term success.

It is worth noting I suppose that the more assets you have, the cheaper the cost will be % wise. Example: a $50k account will pay about 1.35% vs a 1MM account will pay me about .9%. A 5MM account will pay about .6%
A .6-1.5% fee can easily be a six-figure sum across the life of a portfolio.
quote:
"Results are simulated. The saving phase simulates a participant with a salary of $45,000 at age 25, linearly increasing to $85,000 by age 65, making yearly contributions of 6% of salary at age 25, increasing by 0.5% per year to a maximum of 10% and with a 50% company matching contribution up to the first 6% of salary. In retirement, $63,750 (75% of final salary) is deducted at the beginning of each year. The blue-shaded area shows ending savings with an investment return of 9% assumed at age 25, linearly decreasing to 6% at age 80 and remaining constant thereafter. Inflation is assumed to be a constant 3%. The tan-shaded area assumes 1% greater return each year. All amounts are in present-day dollars."



Not saying CFPs aren't worth it, but you can't just sweep fees aside as over exaggerations.
Harkrider 93
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quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Find a CFP

following the no soliciting rule in the original post I will refrain from recommending for or against any practitioner or firm on this thread

The best idea always is a personal referral. Good luck!
OK, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood the no soliciting portion of your post. My apologies.

I guess at this point my main question is, can a for fee CFP really do that much better on returns than the average individual investor? It is said that most managed funds don't really do better than the general markets. How does a CFP compare to or differ from a managed fund?



I think the value a CFP will bring is not in a better return. It could be but I think if you base your decision on that then you will eventually be disappointed.

The value is in the planning and ideas side of things as well as managing the emotional roller coaster that is the stock market.

This
I disagree in a minor way with this. There are numerous studies that have been done over several time frames and with investors in several countries. They show that investors do worse on their own vs having a financial advisor. Their performance is almost 1/3 of the ones with an advisor. This doesn't mean hire a CFP, but to consider an advisor. The supposed reason behind the results is that the advisor helps keep you grounded in your decision making instead of reacting to your emotions.
Wrighty
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quote:

In recent years numerous white papers have been published on this subject. This article cites one of them and addresses my comment that they have been shown to be risk inefficient. However, risk inefficienies are but one shortcoming of these "set it and forget it" strategies, the whole of which is far beyond the scope and spirit of this thread. I did not state that they are not easy and I did not state that they are not cheap as most of them are both. As well, most of them are poorly executed and flawed under scrutiny. Use them if you wish; they'll do little harm (i.e. not likely to blow up a portfolio), but there are better solutions. The good news is that the investor won't know it, or care.

Remember, no hurt feelings! Next question.
Thanks for the link and feedback. I am all ears when it comes to new viewpoints, and enjoy learning new things about investing. As I see it though, there are some flaws in the article and the implied premise that a manager could find subsectors of the market where the risk/reward profile is out of line and therefore can be taken advantage of, thus making a portfolio more risk efficient without sacrificing return. This is the mindset of an active manager. At a minimum, I think its fair to say that this is a debatable point and shouldn't be presented so strongly.

Just as a note: There is an undertone of "we are dumb so I won't bother explaining" within your post. While this may be very true , please don't say things like "good news is that the investor won't know it, or care."

To critique the article:
1) That article talks about Target Date Funds being risky compared to funds such as "Folio Funds" which are invested in very specific subsectors of the market which have lower correlation (using recent results). The article does not speak to overall risk/reward profile, and focuses entirely on risk, although it does mention that "recent performance through 2012 has been better than typical Target Date Funds". The article mentions at one point that different market sectors correlation changes over time, but then ignores that point when it comes to reviewing the "Folio funds".
2) Regarding "recent performance" and "risk/reward": As of October 2015, the "Folio moderate 2040 fund" has an average annualized 5 year return of 4.38%. The Vanguard Target Retirement 2040 fund has an average annualized 5 year return of 9.8%. So, as expected, along with lower risk comes lower performance.
3) The author: This is an excerpt of the Wiki article about James Glassman. As expected from this article, the author seems to take very black-and-white stances on grey areas depending on which way the wind is blowing.
quote:
His first book, Dow 36,000, was published in 1999, near the peak of the late-1990s stock market bubble.
The book was later criticized by Washington Post reporter Carlos Lozada, who asked, "You don't feel the need to apologize to someone who read your book, went in and got creamed?" Glassman replied, "Absolutely not".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Glassman#cite_note-Lozada-10][10][/url] Nobel laureate Paul Krugman argued on his faculty website that the book contained basic arithmetic errors and was 'very silly'.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Glassman#cite_note-11][11][/url] Economist and blogger Nate Silver described the book as 'charlatanic' and suggested on empirical grounds that the authors had failed to notice that the time of writing stock prices were 'as overvalued as at literally any time in American history'.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Glassman#cite_note-12][12][/url]
In 2011, in his third book, Safety Net: The Strategy for De-Risking Your Investments in a Time of Turbulence, he wrote "I was wrong" about his predictions in Dow 36,000, noting that the Dow Jones only went up 20 percent since publication of the book and returns during the intervening years were only "a few piddling percentage points".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Glassman#cite_note-Lozada-10][10][/url] In Safety Net, he argued that "the world has changed" over the past decade; that the U.S. relative economic position had declined and that the risk of catastrophic events had increased. He warned investors to adopt a new definition of risk, moving beyond the notion of financial volatility.
Wrighty
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quote:
quote:
quote:
Find a CFP

following the no soliciting rule in the original post I will refrain from recommending for or against any practitioner or firm on this thread

The best idea always is a personal referral. Good luck!
OK, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood the no soliciting portion of your post. My apologies.

I guess at this point my main question is, can a for fee CFP really do that much better on returns than the average individual investor? It is said that most managed funds don't really do better than the general markets. How does a CFP compare to or differ from a managed fund?



I think the value a CFP will bring is not in a better return. It could be but I think if you base your decision on that then you will eventually be disappointed.

The value is in the planning and ideas side of things as well as managing the emotional roller coaster that is the stock market.
This is the mindset of a good CFP. Good for you.
cheeky
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Wrighty, if you desire to be well read on the subject...surely you can find it on your own. I cited a very simple and easy to understand source because the goal here is to keep it straight forward and accurate. The academic and institutional research to support my view is substantial, however. Take it or leave at as you wish.

Next!
nactownag
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Certainly not suggesting that fees shouldn't be considered. I'm just pointing out that in my particular case we serve more than a thousand families and I believe that those that we help are getting their monies worth whether it is through tax savings ideas/strategies or better risk management or better handling of market downturns (i.e. not selling when the market is down)

There are many ways that financial professionals can and should be adding value outside of the return on investment. Some of the ways we do that are hard to quantify.

Vanguard estimates the value of a financial advisor to be worth ~3% annually.
cheeky
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quote:
quote:
quote:
Find a CFP

following the no soliciting rule in the original post I will refrain from recommending for or against any practitioner or firm on this thread

The best idea always is a personal referral. Good luck!
OK, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood the no soliciting portion of your post. My apologies.

I guess at this point my main question is, can a for fee CFP really do that much better on returns than the average individual investor? It is said that most managed funds don't really do better than the general markets. How does a CFP compare to or differ from a managed fund?



I think the value a CFP will bring is not in a better return. It could be but I think if you base your decision on that then you will eventually be disappointed.

The value is in the planning and ideas side of things as well as managing the emotional roller coaster that is the stock market.
I agree with this 100%. However, there are other financial professionals who specialize in investment consulting specifically who don't do financial planning per se, see CIMA for example. And there are some financial advisors who don't have any credentials at all but have a track record for sound or even splendid investment results. And there are hybrids, etc. As someone eluded to earlier, lots of practitioners biting at the same apple with a myriad of backgrounds. The intent of this thread is to help those who identify with a need for financial planning. I'll start a thread on institutional investment consulting some other time
BBDP
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Of your wealthy clients, what are the 10 most common characteristics?

Average age?
Professionals, blue collar, sales, etc.?
Average income?
How many times have they been married?
Number of kids?
Are the kids self sufficient by 24?
%of their wealth in their home?
Type of cars?

Millionaire next door type stuff?

Thanks!
cheeky
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Average age? 55
Professionals, blue collar, sales, etc.? Professionals/business owners/inherited from either
Average income? Most no longer work, or consult from time to time
How many times have they been married? all married, a few re-married or widowed
Number of kids? average 3
Are the kids self sufficient by 24? more like 26
%of their wealth in their home? 15%
Type of cars? high end

Millionaire next door type stuff? not really

average account is $5.5M
BBDP
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Thanks!
So the 5.5 million is just their accounts with you? 1 million dollar home+/-? I am guessing they have land or other investments not with you. 7 million by 55 is a lot of money.

What kind of income did they earn while working?

I've got a ways to go and only 17 years to get there!
neutics
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quote:
Thanks!
So the 5.5 million is just their accounts with you? 1 million dollar home+/-? I am guessing they have land or other investments not with you. 7 million by 55 is a lot of money.

What kind of income did they earn while working?

I've got a ways to go and only 17 years to get there!

BBDP, I'm also a CFP. Don't waste your time comparing yourself with neighbors/relatives/strangers.

Yes, the progress charts from Fidelity and others showing how much you should have by age 50 in terms of a multiple of salary are somewhat informative, but do NOT get fixated on joining the two comma club.

I have clients who earn incredible incomes, yet spend more in one month than the average Texan makes in a year and yet they complain about cash flow being tight. On the other hand we have our regular Joe clients who never made anywhere near six figures, yet over the course of 30 years managed to accumulate $1M plus and thus are able to live comfortably in retirement.

All that you can control is to 1) make the most of your income potential 2) control your spending and 3) invest it according to your risk tolerance and whatever circumstances dictate your retirement timeline.
PM&Rdoc04
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I am above income limits for the traditional Roth. I have a 403b which is maxed out at work and access to a 457 plan. I have old 403b from previous employers.

Should I convert the 403b from prior employers to an IRA and then roll to Roth (I can come up with the tax difference) or keep in an IRA (Vanguard funds). For future compensation should I fund, in order, 403b--->ira to roth conversion--457, or fund the 457 preferentially. Around how many years from retirement do Roth benefits fall off. I am 20-30 years from retirement.

I have no outstanding major debts other than the house, and I am already putting away for kid's college.
AgShaun00
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What do CFP think is a good % to own of their total portfolio in

Gold/Silver
Real Estate
Cash
Stocks
Stive
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quote:
What do CFP think is a good % to own of their total portfolio in

Gold/Silver
Real Estate
Cash
Stocks

You won't get a straight answer on this. It differs person to person.
neutics
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quote:
I am above income limits for the traditional Roth. I have a 403b which is maxed out at work and access to a 457 plan. I have old 403b from previous employers.

Should I convert the 403b from prior employers to an IRA and then roll to Roth (I can come up with the tax difference) or keep in an IRA (Vanguard funds). For future compensation should I fund, in order, 403b--->ira to roth conversion--457, or fund the 457 preferentially. Around how many years from retirement do Roth benefits fall off. I am 20-30 years from retirement.

I have no outstanding major debts other than the house, and I am already putting away for kid's college.
For your prior employer, I would move to Vanguard as it is hard to beat their value and fund selection. If your new 403(b) is low-fee and has excellent choices, then maybe consider moving there for the sake of consolidation. At least 90% of the time we advise our clients to move it out of their old employer plans due to fees.

For the conversion, this really depends on your marginal tax bracket today and also your age. If you are in the 33% bracket or higher based on taxable income, then I would be very careful making that conversion. The benefit of the Roth is tax-free growth, and ideally with 20-30 years until retirement you would not need to access the Roth until your other assets are exhausted, so maybe 40 years or more.

Instead, an alternate acceptable strategy is to save an equivalent amount that you would have paid in taxes on the conversion into a brokerage account. Or, better yet, make contributions to your Roth IRA instead (and spouse, if applicable). If your MAGI exceeds the limit, do a non-deductible IRA contribution (only if you do NOT have any other IRA assets) and then immediately convert to a Roth IRA with minimal tax impact. This is called the 'back-door' and is a loophole that is still legal and legit.

I think your order of funding is fine, assuming you get some sort of match on the 403(b). Keep in mind that the 457 carries some degree of risk based on the employer's longevity and stability. In addition, a substantial 457 will significantly impact your taxable income when withdrawn (which is another argument in favor of funding a Roth).

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
cs69ag
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What does the CFP think of a fixed indexed annuity with an income rider on a deferred accumulation period for say 10 yrs and then taking joint lifetime income that the payout level is then guaranteed till the second spouse passes? What other investments, if any, would compete with some of the better insurance contract products of this type?

cheeky
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In my view, the application for fixed index annuities for someone with at least 10 years of accumulation is quite narrow. I wouldn't suggest it is a good or bad idea based on the information you provided. Personally speaking, I'm not uniformly opposed but I am certainly not a fan of this approach.
cheeky
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alright let's relight this fire...next question!
dmart90
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What place do you think precious metals have in a portfolio?
dmart90
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quote:
What place do you think precious metals have in a portfolio?
I guess anything but that.
Mustang1
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Inheritance question for you:

About to retire, early 60s
2 sons (40 & 38)
I have property value of 1.5 million
investments of 500K+100K in cash

One son will want to live on the property after retiring. Other prefers city life. What's the best way to split this evenly? Property is a few hundred acres w/ 4 bedroom house.
cheeky
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quote:
What place do you think precious metals have in a portfolio?
I'll address only Gold, which potentially serves a purpose when purchased with fiat currency. Gold, long term, has proven more often than not to be merely an inflation hedge. In the near term it is influenced by speculative trading and, at the end of the day, supply vs demand. Following the housing crash in 2008, and the quantitative easing measures that ensued, long gold was a visible, acitonable trade broadcast to the masses of the educated. When gold peaked almost 2 years ago, the World Bank and others began dumping reserves, and you see the price today. So Gold can be traded around on fundamentals and momentum in the the short term, but long term it's merely a placeholder of wealth i.e. an inflation proxy.

If you want to own gold today, which I do not, I would limit any exposure to owning the gold mining companies where you may get some benefit from the leverage on their balance sheet. Owning physical gold is cumbersome, expensive to store/insure and trades at fairly substantial discounts/premiums to spot price so it is untenable for most. I would say the outlook for gold is fair at best, if you believe inflation may see an uptick soon, or poor at worst in the absence of that or another financial shock. I imagine it isn't much better for other precious metals, but I have no expertise on that.
cheeky
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quote:
Inheritance question for you:

About to retire, early 60s
2 sons (40 & 38)
I have property value of 1.5 million
investments of 500K+100K in cash

One son will want to live on the property after retiring. Other prefers city life. What's the best way to split this evenly? Property is a few hundred acres w/ 4 bedroom house.

"Evenly" is a simple mathematical exercise. Divide the property ahead of time, beginning with...who wants acerage to include the house?? Go from there. You don't have to give away any of it yet, but divide it legally with an idea of splitting the value 50/50 where the property is concerned. Probably easier said than done. It should be up to the future owners (your fortuate sons!) to continue to own or to sell their inheritence. You can only do so much planning, so make it easy for them to make future decisions without encumbering them with undivided interests. Sorry, probably not much help to you there.
HouAg84
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What about Cash Value Life Ins as a retirement vehicle? single, no kids, 53yo, maxing out 401k including >50 catch up, MAGI too high for Roth IRA so cannot contrib. Guy from NWM is pushing CVLI for after-tax surplus - $2k/mo as well as opening up sep brokerage acct with very conservative mix of T-bills/bond. Your thoughts are very appreciated.
nactownag
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Before the life insurance route, you can use the backdoor Roth IRA to get money into the Roth even though you are over the threshold. If you are married, you can do it for your spouse as well. If both are over 50, that's 13k/year that you can move into Roth vehicles for tax free growth.

KEY TO THIS IDEA: This only works if you have no pre tax money in the following types of accts: Traditional IRA, SEP IRA, SIMPLE IRA. If all of your pre tax money is held in 401k, 403b, 457, etc then you are good to go for this.

After that, if you're maxing out all available retirement plans, and provided that you have sufficient after tax money in cash, brokerage accounts then I'd think about doing a LIRP (Life Insurance Retirement Plan) for tax free growth.

I'm not sure I'd be buying some whole life policy though. I'd lean more towards the Variable policy with lowest death benefit possible to reduce cost in the policy. Have to make sure you are compliant so it doesn't become a MEC. Any decent insurance person should provide you with guidance on that.

Hope that is helpful
Stive
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quote:

I'm not sure I'd be buying some whole life policy though. I'd lean more towards the Variable policy with lowest death benefit possible to reduce cost in the policy. Have to make sure you are compliant so it doesn't become a MEC. Any decent insurance person should provide you with guidance on that.

Hope that is helpful

To be fair, he could be looking at a UL or Variable policy. HouAg just said cash value life insurance.


To piggy back off of what nactown said, the insurance in that scenario CAN work but their are a few ifs:

If your tax bracket is higher than the insurance costs of the policy then it can work well. Many companies have high expenses on the insurance and that cost offsets the tax savings you would hope to benefit from. NM has relatively low insurance expenses so if you're healthy they're a solid company to look at for this.

If you already have maxed out other retirement vehicles (you covered that and nac added to it) it can be a good idea.

If you value/need some liquidity the insurance product can provide that.

If you like/need some safe (lower but more consistent rates of return) money, then a UL or traditional whole life would be how you would lean. If you prefer money in the market and the insurance option fits the "ifs" previously listed then a variable policy could work.



There are multiple ifs that have to be addressed before someone here can definitively say that an insurance plan like that would fit your situation, but it's not out of the question.
 
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