I did not see it mentioned, so apologies if it was covered, but driving in snow in an area where snow is commonplace should not discourage anyone from going. If flying in and renting, get an AWD and understand that if an apocalyptic blizzard sets in you may be stuck for a bit but so will everyone else.

If you are used to torrential downpours in Houston then you will be just fine driving on snow in Colorado. Plus having a rental allows for much more exploring particularly if the weather out that day is sunny. Lots of great rec on this thread.

Driving and rain and driving in ice and snow are 100% different. I couldn't disagree with you more especially when you factor in the difference in elevation grades. We actually have a traction law that requires AWD, snow socks/chains, or snow tires. If it's snowing and the roads are open, the shuttles will be running since they have studded snows and AWD.

Have you ever seen the result on Houston or Dallas roads when it's icy? Accidents abound and cars sliding all over and that's on 0% grade. I don't see that during most rain storms so I'm going to politely disagree that one condition prepares you for the other.

Rental car companies also have no legal requirement to ensure you're satisfying the snow traction laws. It's the drivers responsibility so most rental car companies don't care what they put you in as long as the get you out the door.

And an AWD car with front range or low country tires isn't going to help much through the mountains. It'll make you feel better but not change the conditions much driving. You need AWD with snow treads or REALLY good ATs with hella tread. I hate to say it but that's not what you get with most rentals. Most rentals you get tires with barely an 1/8 tread an all season tires which are trash in extreme weather.

They also usually fill rentals with wiper fluid that isn't subzero rated as well. Usually, the fluid they use is all seasons and freezes at 32 or sometimes 20. We typically use -20 or even -50. Nothing worse than trying to clear your windshield and creating a solid sheet of ice on the front windshield that obscures your vision while dropping a 4-5% grade along the side of a mountain at night. That's a scary and helpless feeling.

JustPanda said:

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Driving and rain and driving in ice and snow are 100% different. I couldn't disagree with you more especially when you factor in the difference in elevation grades. We actually have a traction law that requires AWD, snow socks/chains, or snow tires. If it's snowing and the roads are open, the shuttles will be running since they have studded snows and AWD.

Have you ever seen the result on Houston or Dallas roads when it's icy? Accidents abound and cars sliding all over and that's on 0% grade. I don't see that during most rain storms so I'm going to politely disagree that one condition prepares you for the other.

Rental car companies also have no legal requirement to ensure you're satisfying the snow traction laws. It's the drivers responsibility so most rental car companies don't care what they put you in as long as the get you out the door.

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Agree to disagree. Icy, mostly untreated roads in Texas are in no way shape or form equivalent to snowy roads in Colorado or anywhere where snow is common. They are also not equivalent to a rain storm which is why that was NOT the comparison I made.

Traction laws are in effect mainly during winter storms which I specifically cautioned about in my post. Here is the actual law for Colorado if anyone wants to reference.

https://www.codot.gov/travel/winter-driving/tractionlaw

You can absolutely specify AWD or 4x4 when renting from rental car companies. And nothing prevents a renter from putting on snow socks / chains if the conditions presented where they become necessary.

For the OP, they seem to be comfortable with a shuttle and that is a perfectly fine option. But others may not want that for various reasons and should be aware of other options and reality.

And I will stand by the assertion that driving in a Houston flash flood is much more dangerous than driving in Colorado snow. Based on my experience but there may be data out there for those enthused enough to look at the numbers.

To the OP, have a great trip. We enjoy bugging out to snow country during the winter and to cooler climes when things get hot like they are now. Lots of great recs in the thread. Always plan according to your comfort and experience level.

AWD does you no good on ice/snow in AS tires. You need AT or snow treads and I doubt the OP wants to buy and then try and learn how to roll onto chains in a rental.

Also, big misconception: when they treat the roads all they're doing is melting the ice w MCloride or salting or sanding or plowing which then refreezes later and creates black ice if not continuously treated. They don't dry the roads off, they just remove the surface layer of ice snow but that doesn't remove the residual moisture from the road. Most counties don't plow throughout the night either. They may not plow at all after 10pm - 6am or only clear one lane intermittently. Honestly, the worst type of road to drive is a freshly plowed but not MChloride/Salt/Sanded road. I'd 100x rather drive in 1-2 inches than a freshly plowed freshly refrozen slick AF roadway.

Plus if a portion of the road stays in the shade, it doesn't matter how hard they hit it over and over, it'll basically never melt until a plow starts pulling up pancakes which they might do 1-2x a season.

Also, when it rips, they prioritize the interstates over the state highways and CRs (don't extrapolate that to mean they do a good job on the interstates) So, you may not get plowed for days depending on where you're.

If I could post pictures, I'd be able to show you a plethora of amazing high country road conditions days after the original storm. It's a running joke around here during the winter.

Not arguing with anything you are saying and it certainly applies to those that live up there full time and lays out the potential for what could happen on a trip to higher elevations.

Heck, your advice and experience could be well heeded by many a Texan who ventures up there in the 4x4 F-350 thinking everything will be just peachy no matter what the whether.

For me, I don't mind just staying in until the conditions improve but that flexibility may not work for others.

Agree with you 100%. I can't tell you the number of days this last season I pushed back driving the 64 miles to work because I just had a bad vibe. Follow your intuition and 100% agree with don't get out until you're comfortable w the conditions. California and Colorado DOTs have really great live streams of the road conditions. I snag a look at each camera before I head out just to mentally prepare myself for where the roads are cleared and where the DOT took a breather. Since they contract out alot of the plowing, you may have MM 116 to 143 completely cleared, 143-153 totally unplowed and then totally cleared from MM153-176.

Sorry for coming off as an ******* - you have several very valid points. My apologies.

I will say that for trucks, sandbagging the bed like you do in Houston rain to keep the back end from sliding out is a GREAT IDEA during the winter because once your backend starts to slide, it's over and you're in deep ***** I'd say the biggest difference between rain and snow-ice is that you feel in control until you start to try and decelerate which is why slow and steady wins the race.

Nothing more frustrating than sitting on a closed freeway, only to have it reopen and reclose because some dumbass thinks that because it's open, it's all clear, and passes on the left going 85 before flipping or sliding in the ditch a mile up the road.

One of the most epic threads on the travel board.

My contribution, stay home! Nothing better than your own lazy boy on Christmas morning while the kids open presents.

No need to apologies... I have a strong reputation of coming off as an arse from time to time. I took your feedback as a solid, passionate warning to others to quit traveling like dumbarses on road conditions they are not familiar with... and balancing that with people with sensible approaches can travel in those conditions or choose not to if they are not comfortable.

Again, you have solid advice and lots of experience on snow / ice conditions, particularly at elevation.

I'd say the thing that really terrifies me is losing control on a part of the roadway with no service during a biting cold night. We have that all over up here and the only thing worse than wrecking your car is wrecking your car in a snowstorm w no cell service in conditions that are sub zero or single digits. I almost hit an elk on 131 this Feb and my first thought was if I hit that elk, it may have been hours before the next car passes and it was -12 below and snowing pretty hard. That's a bad bad bad combo.

It's always good to keep emergency stuff in the truck during winter. Up here in MN I always try and keep a blanket, heavy jacket and some other items I might need if I become stranded and stuck and the truck isn't running.

Worst spots up here are shaded areas under bridges. Almost lost my truck on a sunny day this spring trucking along at 55 on a metro highway where main lanes were clear.

JustPanda said:

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I'd say the thing that really terrifies me is losing control on a part of the roadway with no service during a biting cold night. We have that all over up here and the only thing worse than wrecking your car is wrecking your car in a snowstorm w no cell service in conditions that are sub zero or single digits. I almost hit an elk on 131 this Feb and my first thought was if I hit that elk, it may have been hours before the next car passes and it was -12 below and snowing pretty hard. That's a bad bad bad combo.

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I carry a Garmin InReach device for just this reason anytime traveling away from areas with solid cell service.

+1 - We keep a full set of ski clothes including gaiters and gloves, waterproof work boots, blanket, pillow, a gallon of water, trail mix, vape, and bottle of wine in the trunk just in case.

Do tell more - I drive probs 40% of the time on backroads w limited to no cell service so I think I need that Garmin..

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/c/outdoor-recreation/satellite-communicators/

Variety of devices and there are other companies.

Newer iPhones also now offer emergency SOS satellite based communication. For now I would trust a Garmin or similar.

Edited to Add: I just got the Montana 700 after misplacing an original Mini). For those who enjoy ATVs on National Forest roads, I cannot imagine NOT having one of these with you. We broke a an axel on an old ATV several years ago and several miles from a road with an afternoon storm rolling in.

We didn't need to make use of it but it was comfort knowing we had it. The guy who helped us out also had one. Would have been at least a 2 mile trek to get a cell signal.

Thank you! Hoping I can get it on ExpertVoice discount but if not still we'll worth it. Definitely will be sharing w co-workers and friends. Mil Gracias

Edit to add - I don't trust many companies when I'm out in BFE, but Garmin I trust.

And seriously make sure they don't give you regular AS washer fluid or go to Walmart and buy -20 and either flush and fill w the good stuff or top off with -20 and keep adding it as you use it to eventually lower the freezing point in the reservoir. When I say it's terrifying to freeze over your front windshield, I mean it 1000%. Frozen fractals on your windshield is no dice and you won't know until you try it and are SOL.

Edit to add - when you have -20 and your windshield freezes, you say to hell with it and stay home w Buffalo Trace and the SECN.

Oh yeah! And make sure the area that sprays the fluid onto the windshield isn't frozen over or blocked by snow or ice re-freeze. That's another one that sucks to find out mid drive when your covered in the car in front of yours wash and you go to spray fluid and it's frozen.

Jetpilot86 said:

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3 days of pain is exactly how I describe learning to ride.

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If you've been skiing where you can crash a million different ways, or if one ski catches an edge you can still recover with the other ski, it takes some getting used to on a snowboard where all you can hit is your hands, knees or butt.

The other one that took some getting used to on a snowboard was how you could be cruising along, catch an edge and then bam - right on your ass in a split second. With skiing at least you knew the crash was coming.

Its been 25 years since I attempted to snowboard and my tailbone still hurts.

+1 wrists too

Snowboarder random death scorpions are the craziest. I've seen a girl catch an edge on a catwalk, go face first into the hill and have the board crack her across the face. Somehow she didn't break her nose or split her head open (ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET) but she was concussed so bad she didn't know her husbands name. Yikes

Edited to add - and you will be sore in places you didn't know existed. And when I say sore I mean SORE.

My suggestion is find the most snow at the lowest altitude. Breck is tough after a few days, coming from sea level.

JustPanda said:

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Forgot to mention Mt Baker at 177+ inches through December and 509+ inches per season with 71 snow days and an average base of 96 inches! WTF!!! That's 7+ inches per snow day.

So yeah, there are plenty of places that beat Wolf Creek. I love WC but it's nowhere near some of the other ski hills regarding snowfall and def doesn't lead the lower 48 in early season totals. But, for Colorado, it usually leads or like last year splits the lead in state in snowfall w SS. and still a solid little hill w inches per snow day at almost 6.75.

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There's just nothing at Baker. Glacier is the closest place with hotels and it's 30 minutes away - more with traffic. In terms of flights, you're better off finding direct to Vancouver than connections into Bellingham.

Baker also has nothing for beginners and minimal for intermediate skiers. It ****ing shines on the snow and lift-accessed backcountry (https://caltopo.com/m/4T07). It's also maritime snow, so although loads of it, it's generally very stable snowpack relative to UT / CO. However, if not avy, tree wells will keep you up at night on Baker:

Ragoo said:

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My suggestion is find the most snow at the lowest altitude. Breck is tough after a few days, coming from sea level.

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Most snow at the lowest altitude - Alyeska Resort in Girdwood, Alaska.
But... it's not Colorado Champagne Powder, it's thick heavy snow.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Jetpilot86 said:

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3 days of pain is exactly how I describe learning to ride.

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If you've been skiing where you can crash a million different ways, or if one ski catches an edge you can still recover with the other ski, it takes some getting used to on a snowboard where all you can hit is your hands, knees or butt.

The other one that took some getting used to on a snowboard was how you could be cruising along, catch an edge and then bam - right on your ass in a split second. With skiing at least you knew the crash was coming.

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This is what I tell people when asked about skiing vs boarding. The falls are harder and more sudden in snowboarding. Every time I go I tell myself I'm gonna switch back to skiing. I can't believe how long I went before getting a helmet.

If you want to get the ultimate snow experience come up to Minnesota and shovel my driveway each week after 8 inches of snow. You'll love it!

Where you at? This last winter was BRUTAL for snow clearing

JustPanda said:

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If your kids or you are going to ski, you'll want to buy epic day passes early before they stop selling them. Epic Day passes are 1/2 price until Labor Day. Afterwards, you're looking at $220+ a day which is insane.

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Oy. Didn't realize ski passes are that much. Any chance you have discounts for equipment rental at Northstar ?

Pahdz said:

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Where you at? This last winter was BRUTAL for snow clearing

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I'm in North Oaks, about 15 miles north of St Paul. And yes it was.

Sadly, no.

We're in Vail, Beaver Creek, Breck and Copper.

Great community, I'm on the opposite end of the metro over in Minnetonka

Pahdz said:

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Great community, I'm on the opposite end of the metro over in Minnetonka

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That's a nice spot as well. Love your lake.

I'm too poor to live on that side of town