My wife and I are planning to go to Australia with our four-year old son in late November. I'm looking at flights now, and we have a few options for carriers and layovers. We live in Houston. I've flown international plenty, but never for a flight this long, and mostly to Europe and Central America.

Flight over would arrive in Sydney. Flight back would depart from Melbourne.

Flight Options:
United - layover at LAX or SFO each way
Air New Zealand - layover in Auckland each way
Qantas - layover in Dallas on way over (50 minutes...is that enough?), LAX on way back (2 hours)

So a few questions...

1) Which airline would be best for this trip, especially with a 4-year old? I noticed the SkyCouch thing on ANZ, which looks nice for a kid, but not sure how good it would really be. Familiarity with United, but that's not always a good thing. Qantas is the priciest (only by a little), and would allow us to fly out of Hobby, which is closer. But is 50 minutes in Dallas enough to transfer?

2) How much time should we allow on the layover? Can get anywhere from 1.5-3 hours in LAX or SFO, if not more. Auckland would be about 90 minutes or so. And then it's a matter of having the longer portion of the flight on the front end or the back end. Any advice there?

3) I assume the location of the layover affects where we clear customs on the way back. If Auckland, would I be correct that we clear when we arrive in Houston? If LAX or SFO, would we have to get our bags there and then go through customs and re-check them?

4) Am I missing anything?

Many thanks in advance.

economy or business class? precheck/global entry?

imo, 50 min in dfw on the way there is enough, 2 hrs in lax on way back may not be enough.


3. correct

Likely economy based on cost, but could potentially swing for business class if we really want to splurge. No precheck or global entry (yet, but this is also a possibility).

I haven't flown that way in over a decade, but when I did, i really liked Quantas.

A few years ago United had lots of delays where they stranded passengers in Oz for 1+ days due to faulty aircraft. I might check out flyertalk.com t9 see if it's improved. I've flown Qantas and it was a good experience. A 50 minute layover would worry me for an international flight, especially since the DFW -->SYD is a once a day flight. Any earlier flights from IAH/HOU to DFW?

histag10 said:

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I haven't flown that way in over a decade, but when I did, i really liked Quantas.

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Queensland
And
Northern
Territory
Air
Service

No U in QANTAS

Alright... I've made this flight at least 35 times in each direction, last time was 2 weeks ago. Here's what you need to know.

There are 5 carriers who fly nonstop between SYD and LAX

• American
• Qantas
• United
• Delta
• Virgin

American has the worst 777 config with 3-4-3 in economy
Qantas flies the A380 for the most part between SYD-LAX and MEL-LAX. They also fly the A380 between DFW-SYD.
Qantas flies the 747 from SYD-SFO
United flies the 787 between SYD-LAX and SYD-SFO
Delta and Virgin both fly a 777 which I believe has a 3-3-3 config in Economy. I've never flown Virgin and I've only flown Business Class on Delta.

Up until 2009, SYD-LAX was a closed route with only Qantas and United authorized to fly it. Since there was no competition, the fares were sky high. Economy was usually close to $3,000 RT and Business Class was usually over $10,000 RT. First Class RT was $25,000.

Since 2009, Delta and Virgin have established some good competition and brought the prices down to where it's routinely $2,000 RT between SYD-LAX for Economy and $7,500 for Business Class.

The drop in fuel costs has helped reduce the economy class fares but has done relatively little for Business Class. The deal is that most folks flying for work - especially if they work for an American company, will get to fly Business Class to Australia and the companies don't seem to care what it costs.

Maybe a year ago, Air New Zealand got into the game with their nonstop from AKL-IAH. That's good if you're going to Houston. It's about a 3 1/2 hour flight between SYD-AKL and the Air New Zealand staff are always fantastic.

This year, American Airlines got in the game and one of the problems I have is their codeshares with Qantas. When you start pricing fares, you've really got to double check to see if you're going to be on American or Qantas. Trust me, you don't want to be in that 3-4-3 Economy section on the AA 777.

Now, one new arrival that has changed the game a little bit is when United replaced their old 747s with 787s. So now they have a modern entertainment experience like everybody else has but, there's one other little nicety. Since the 787 pressurizes the cabin to feel like 6,000 feet instead of 7,500 feet, you really do feel more rested after a 14 hour flight.

As far as connections, always allow a minimum of 2 hours if you're clearing Immigration at LAX. Do not accept any tighter connection. You can "Global Entry" all you want but you still have to claim your luggage and recheck at LAX. This can take anywhere from 30-90 minutes depending on how many arrivals there are at the same time. Now that info applies to Qantas and United. United is even worse because your connection will be down in Terminal 7 while QF connects to AA in Terminal 4. When I flew Delta, they had their own Immigration and Customs and you stayed in the same Terminal for your connection. But Delta recently changed Terminals at LAX so I'm not sure how that works now.

Ideal situation, I would fly to DFW and get on a Qantas flight.
My second choice would be to get on Air New Zealand from Houston and connect through Auckland.
My third choice would be to fly United and connect through SFO.

Now, if you want to really get into some airfare games, you can also try some of the Asian carriers who fly into Houston or DFW.

Air China, Korean Air, Japan Airlines, I got a good fare on Korean before when I was traveling with my family. When you're buying 4x the tickets, every penny adds up quick. Last Christmas, I brought one of my college aged kids home on ANA via Tokyo.

4 years old is going to be a little young to remember too much for too long. It's also going to be a long time to sit in a seat but, if you're on an A380, there's plenty of running room
Qantas also has a snack bar at the back of their A380 on the main deck where you can get self-service snacks and beverages.

Maybe too much detail but believe me, there's more. Also lots of games you can play with seat selection. If you've got a family of 3, you can get a whole row section to yourself so that's nice.

Traveling with your family, I would NOT spring for Business Class unless your company is paying for it. The delta is going to be $5,000 per seat and if you've got a family of 3, you could probably make better use of $15,000. Good Luck on your trip.

I should add that one thing that the USA makes you do is clear Immigration and Customs at your first point of entry. In your scenario, that could be LAX, SFO, DFW or IAH. So there, you will have to collect your luggage and hand it off to the re-check people. It's not hard and they have folks waiting there to take your luggage after you clear Customs.

When you're transiting through Auckland however, you do not leave the International side. Your luggage is checked straight through. You will have to clear security again so you can't carry liquids - i.e. Duty Free liquor on board if you're transiting in Auckland. But, the security lines at Auckland are a piece of cake because they're dedicated to International Transit only, not the regular punters arriving at the airport.

There's plenty of Duty Free to be purchased in Auckland so you won't miss the opportunity. You just won't be able to buy that bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue Label with the Sydney Opera House on it when you're leaving Australia. Sydney does have a Duty Free shop on arrival so, you could get it then and subsequently put it in your checked bags for the rest of the trip.

Sydney has made some improvements lately so clearing Immigration and Customs should be relatively easy. But, since you're traveling with a 4 year old, they will make you wait in the non-Electronic passport line which depending on arrival time could be short or extremely long. Just depends on how many other airlines are arriving from Asia at the same time.

We flew ANZ to aukland last July. We saw several families with kids use the sky couch. It seemed easy for them to put the kids to sleep bc it was a quasi bed for them. And when I say "seemed easy" its bc the kids were wonderfully asleep the entire flight.

Thanks, all. That's very helpful. My wife is open to the idea of going through Auckland even though it means the long portion of the flight is at the beginning. Is there anything to do in Auckland that would make a stop of a couple of days there worth it?

Alternatively, is it worth stopping there and dealing with getting in and out of the airport if we are just there for a few days?

Jackal99 said:

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Thanks, all. That's very helpful. My wife is open to the idea of going through Auckland even though it means the long portion of the flight is at the beginning. Is there anything to do in Auckland that would make a stop of a couple of days there worth it?

Alternatively, is it worth stopping there and dealing with getting in and out of the airport if we are just there for a few days?

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Never looked into kids activities there, just adult activities which revolve around getting drunk

Auckland has this really cool inner harbor area called The Viaduct. They've got a really cool sailing museum there which covers a history of sailing and a history of New Zealand.

When my wife and I were there a couple years ago, we also took a harbour cruise and we did a winery tour of Waiheke Island which the locals pronounce in a way that makes it sound just like Waikiki in Hawaii.

The formation of New Zealand around Auckland is kind of interesting because you can see the remnants of volcanoes as you land. You won't see any volcanoes in Australia.

Somewhere around Auckland, they've got a place they call 90 mile beach and I think they've also got some black sand beaches somewhere. You'll be arriving at the beginning of summer so you'll still need a jacket in New Zealand.

All of the Middle Earth terrain is on the South Island.

I've heard New Zealand is an awesome place. I'd say spending a couple days there is definitely worth it.

It all depends on your preference if you want a long flight right off or later. 50 minutes is tight at dfw but are they allowing you to book the flight?

On American atleast they escort you through DFW with a yellow fast pass on tight international connections

Matsui said:

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It all depends on your preference if you want a long flight right off or later. 50 minutes is tight at dfw but are they allowing you to book the flight?

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I didn't go too far into the booking process, but it was the only option that pulled up on the Qantas site. I didn't dig too much, but I could probably find an earlier flight to DFW if that's the way we decide to go. It only gave me about 90 minutes in LAX on the return, which concerns me a bit.

The more we talk about it, the more likely it is that we go with ANZ from Houston to Auckland, spend a few days there, and then head to Sydney. Our itinerary is somewhat flexible, but we do need to be in Melbourne for the second half of our trip, and will fly back from there. (Again, likely with a layover in Auckland, then direct to Houston.)

If it was too tight of a connection, I don't think the airline website would allow you to book it.

I like that. Take the non stop from IAH direct to New Zealand.

Matsui said:

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I like that. Take the non stop from IAH direct to New Zealand.

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Yep. I just placed a fare hold on that. I have three days to confirm and pay. As of right now, it looks like this on Air New Zealand:

IAH to Auckland non-stop
three days in Auckland
Auckland to Sydney
~10 days between Sydney/Melbourne/whatever else
Melbourne to IAH, with a layover in Auckland

I like the non-stop flight to Auckland, and not having to clear customs until we get home to IAH. I've done the whole clear/re-check thing before and haven't found it pleasant, so this would make that easier.

I just booked our flights, and wanted to give an update. We are flying Air New Zealand.

IAH to Auckland on a Friday night (arrive Sunday morning)
Auckland to Sydney the following Thursday
Melbourne to Houston about 10 days after that (a Monday), w/a layover in Auckland

I booked a SkyCouch for the two flights it was available on - Houston/Auckland, and Auckland/Houston. Thanks for all the suggestions and help. Our trip is not until November, so I may be back to ask for ideas of things to see, other suggestions, etc.

Awesome. I love researching flights. Nice work!

Paging HollywoodBQ or anybody else who may have input...

Trip is in a month or so. Trying to figure out the best way to get from Sydney to Melbourne, without driving ourselves. Best I can tell, that leaves train or plane. The train looks longer, but cheaper, and I'm guessing easier. Plane would be quicker but more expensive, and would involve dealing with more airports.

Can anyone that may have done either or both, or at least know anything about the trip, provide any input? TIA.

Yeah, you don't want to drive between SYD-MEL. It's about 800km/500mi.
I wouldn't take a train either.

There should be plenty of cheap flights between Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia and Tiger. Tiger is probably least preferred.

Mid-late November shouldn't have competition with school travel. Most schools are in session until the first week in December when they start to break up for summer. In NSW, I think most of the public schools go into the 2nd week in December.

I've flown Air NZ from LAX to AKL and really enjoyed the experience. I was in Premium Economy both ways. Very nice flight.

For th record AA switched to a 787 from LAX to SYD so you can get priemum economy like quantas. Wife and I are on that flight later this year.

AustinScubaAg said:

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For th record AA switched to a 787 from LAX to SYD so you can get priemum economy like quantas. Wife and I are on that flight later this year.

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Thanks for the tip, I didn't know American was a 787 customer. Looks like they got their first one 13 months ago only 5 years after ANA
And it looks like they start flying it to Australia on November 8th.
I might have to take another look at American. It looks like American's Business Class is 1-2-1. United's "Polaris" is 2-2-2.

For anybody who stumbles onto this thread in the future and is super cheap on airfare like I am (when flying for personal travel without the rules imposed by my work), my oldest kid is looking to come visit us in Australia for two weeks at Christmas and found a cheap fare on EVA Air between Houston and Brisbane via Taipei. I didn't know until now that they had a nonstop between Houston and Taipei.

I flew the AA 788 in business with my dad from LAX to AKL in January. Herringbone lie flat, but they fit the same 1-2-1 compared to a 772/773. They are more narrow but still comfy if you are maybe < 6' and < 200 lb. if you are bigger, they may feel like a coffin.

The Austrailia flight is on the 787-9 not the 787-8 so a slightly different config and is the first AA plane with premium economy. It also has a different Business class seat though it looks similar in size to the one you describe. At 5'9 seems the seat would be fine if I swing an upgrade.

Premium Economy on Air NZ on the 773 (they were in the process of discussing a retrofit) was by far the most space and biggest area I've ever seen. They sit 2-2-2, with the outer 2's meant more for individuals, and the inner 2's meant more for couples. I didn't like the lack of a foot rest, but they provide a bean bag and the seat slides in the shell which gives you a nice recliner feel.

The price for me was also a big win: it was about 2x the price of economy, where they already went 3-4-3 (10 across!), so I could get a round trip on sale for $2400-$2500/pp.



The AA 787 business class I flew was purchased primarily with points. They rarely offer 2 biz/J seats using AA miles on the same flight at the same time.

evan_aggie said:

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I flew the AA 788 in business with my dad from LAX to AKL in January. Herringbone lie flat, but they fit the same 1-2-1 compared to a 772/773. They are more narrow but still comfy if you are maybe < 6' and < 200 lb. if you are bigger, they may feel like a coffin.

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I'm 6'3" and ridiculously over my US Army screen weight. I find that in many of the Business Class configurations it would be nicer if I were about 2-3 inches shorter. United 787 in particular, I'm top of my head to the bottom of my feet under pressure if I try to lie flat. I find what's most comfortable for sleeping is to recline the seat to about a 30 degree angle.

The irony with Business Class configs (and sometimes even Economy) is that frequently the Asian carriers actually offer larger seats. Especially Singapore Airlines.

Just booked my next trip to the USA and the Travel Agent asked if I wanted to get on the United Airlines nonstop between Sydney and Houston. But... it looks like it doesn't start until January. Now that's going to be a game changer for me.
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-09-07-United-Airlines-Strengthens-Commitment-to-Houston-with-Nonstop-Service-Between-Houston-and-Sydney

I noticed that, too. If that were available just a few months earlier, that's likely what we would have flown. At least we get to have a few days in Auckland, too, this way.

Thanks for your help. Going to fly from Sydney to Melbourne. Now we just have to figure out what to do in each place.

I've been to Sydney and pretty much all of New Zealand.
My personal preference is NZ all the way. Sydney is like a sunny Boston.

If you remove Auckland from NZ, what remains is a country of relatively small and quaint towns, with gorgeous scenery at every turn. It truly is an amazing place to be.

Any tips on things to see or do? We have a basic list, but if you can recommend any "musts," that would be great. We will have our 4-year old son with us, if that makes a difference either way with anything.

In Sydney or Auckland? Sounded like you weren't really visiting NZ...just a stop to change planes.