Although I am not a fan, U.S. micro brews are good, better than the big guys. Major U.S. beer producers produce a very inferior product. They have the financial resources, however, to sell their products at a reduced price than independent/smaller competitors and can market the hell out of said products.

Advertising and marketing have a huge impact on beverage sales, especially here in the
States.

I am a Belgian beer fan, and take it over any beer. Overall, I think the best beers are produced in Europe.



____________________________________
I have seen the enemy, and he is us.

____________________________________
Losers make excuses while winners go home with the homecoming queen.

EZ Mart is not the place to shop deli items.

Aldi is crap in the US, no where near what they are overseas. I've been to two, one at South Padre and another here in Southern Ohio and they are crappy.

Don't waste your time going to one in the bad part of town, it is there because it carries off brands and caters to poors.

[This message has been edited by Ronnie (edited 9/17/2009 2:10p).]

I find it ironic that some folks constantly lecture people on the virtues of going "off the beaten track" in Europe to find what is real, but can't seem to do the same for the United States.

What is real and not industrialized garbage in the US is called "gourmet" and costs 5x more (for certain things). Thats the problem with eating well. Yes, Central Market and everything are good, my wife couldnt believe that they had real cheese in the US, because she hadnt seen it in other stores (she considers cheese wheels real cheese), but the prices there are so extreme due to the lack of competition in the "good" food market .. that in order to eat well in the US you really have to pay a premium.

I never argued that it wasnt there, I just said it was harder to find and then you would really have to pay for it. My wife and I actually have a comparison list of what we like to eat and what it would cost in both countries .. in order to get the quality of food that we get here, we would have to pay 2x more for it in the US (on average, some things are a bit cheaper and some things are 5x more expensive), even with the Euro at ~$1.50 right now .. so thats really so for everything that costs me 1€ here, Id have to pay $3 at home for the same quality and then whatever it would cost to go to the store to actually get it.

100% its there, 100% that people should find it, my wife would make me find it if we lived in the US, thats for certain. Its just a shame that basic standard of what is available is so low. I think that is what Ollie meant in the first place, it doesnt have to do with what "is" available .. the US has the best of absolutely everything available and that isnt even arguable, the question is basically .. what is available to which people and then at what price? Thats a tough question, its like the healthcare one and there is no right answer Im afraid.

In the US the issue is ... if the people have never had any different, how would they even know better? They dont and wont. The wealthy (anyone who has an A&M degree belongs to the upper 20% already) are the ones who get the benefits of the US, the masses dont. Is that right or wrong? Its not up to me to say for you.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/21/2009 4:17a).]

quote:

---

Houses are expensive, cars are expensive, electronics are expensive, gasoline is insanely expensive.

---

Maybe with all the money Americans are saving on the items you listed above, the higher prices we pay on food make it a wash?

In general I think the US is trending towards more locally produced, higher quality items. The have been several quotes about the quality & high expense of Central Market. There are other grocery stores (not to mention weekly farmer's markets) where you can buy the same stuff at a cheaper price.

quote:

---

The wealthy ... are the ones who get the benefits of the US, the masses dont. Is that right or wrong? Its not up to me to say for you.

---

I'd say it's right until somebody comes up with a better system. Capitalism isn't perfect, and some people will suffer from poor choices or plain bad luck. The beauty of it is that with hard work and personal responsibility, anyone can be anything they want to here in the US.

All d-bagery aside, Randy does make some valid points.

Food in America does suffer from a mass production/profit driven market. There is no way to argue against this.

Anyone who tries to argue against it is just being intellectually dishonest as it is so completely obvious.

Producers are willing to sacrifice quality to produce higher quantity at a higher margin. Consumers are willing to accept mediocrity for increased convenience and cheaper prices. It isn't sexy but it IS true from a societal perspective.

That doesn't mean that you can't get good food in the US. It just means you'll have to work a little harder to get it than you will in Europe. Anyone that has been to Europe for any length of time understands that this too is obvious.

I have found several places to buy local in my town. I try to buy as fresh as I can and I avoid prepackaged food. But it does cost a LOT more than if I just bought Oscar Meyer, Hormel or Kraft.

to the OP -

What city are you in?

You shouldn't have any problems finding what you crave if you just look a little... well unless you live in BFE.

quote:

---

Food in America does suffer from a mass production/profit driven market. There is no way to argue against this.

---

And you think European farmers aren't driven by profit? Go look at the huge subsidies provided by the EU Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). They are trying to pare them back, but this is the system which has allowed small, inefficient producers to survive in Europe, not the alleged discerning taste of European consumers.

My problem is not with European food per se, it is that a Brit has the audacity to complain about American cuisine.

Does he have a point? Yes, w/ respect to packaged bread and Kraft-type cheeses. But as others have harped on, there are plenty of alternative options, esp. if you live in Metropolitan areas.

____________________________________
I have seen the enemy, and he is us.

____________________________________
Losers make excuses while winners go home with the homecoming queen.

I look at both sides of this discussion and can't keep from laughing. In the 1960's, I was stationed in a very isolated area of Germany. for three years.

I had a great time, made a lot of friends the the Germans but I was homesick for the US. Me and my buddies would talk about going home and eathing soft bread, cold beer and round door knobs (most european doors had handles).

The only fast food place back them was an A&W Root Beer place in Kaiserslautern. It was a 3 hour drive to get there but we went every chance we got. It was probably pretty bad compared to an A&W in the US but we were homesick.

Moral: Every place is different. Enjoy where you are at.

I've been in Germany now for about three weeks. I'm staying in a fairly rural area, but I've traveled around quite a bit, even to Austria, Switzerland, and France. While the food quality is good here, there just doesn't seem to be as many choices as the US, at least restaurant wise. I have no cooking facilities in my hotel room, so the only time I go to the grocery store is to get beer and ice. The grocery store does seem to have a very good selection here. Overall, breakfast here sucks, your choices are pretty much bread and flavored bread. Lunch and dinner is good, but you better go during the right time or you won't find any open restaurants and most of them will be traditional german food or pizza and gyros.I did go to a Thai restaurant my first day here and I got bad food poisoning and was sick for three days, so asian food pretty much went out of the window for me. I did eat at a mexican restaurant here one night that was surprisingly decent, but you don't get freebie chips and salsa like you do in the states. Traditional german food is pretty good though if you can figure out the menus and the service is always friendly. Overall I think the food quality has been good here, but I certainly wouldn't say that it is better or worse than the states. The beer also kicks ass here, but we have a lot of good microbreweries in the states now that can match the German beer, if you can just find a place that actually serves it.

quote:

---

The beer also kicks ass here

---

You can just stop there... It DOES kick ass!!! I lived in Germany for 2 years. Maisel Hefe Weizen is still the very BEST beer I've ever had and nothings come close. Unfortunately, I've not found anywhere in the US that sells it and I've been looking since 1993.

[This message has been edited by Say Chowdah (edited 9/24/2009 7:12p).]

TWK - two questions.

#1 Have you spent any amount of time in Europe?
#2 Have you shopped at both butcher shops and bakerys? Stand alones... Not a butcher shop in an Albertson's, HEB etc?

I am not trying to call you out here but to invite you to experience something that you MAY have not. If you have, then carry on.

I lived in a VERY small town in Germany. Less than 10,000 people. But in this very small town they had a butcher shop and a very good bakery and their own brewery. It was all locally produced, but when you would go to the butcher shop to buy some brats - wow!!!

I knew right then, at 21 years old, I'd been missing something my previous years.

I buy from the grocery store butcher counter and bakery. It is just not the same... When you go to the meat counter and the labels say something else? What does that tell you? It tells you they didn't make it. Just not the same... It doesn't mean that it isn't good, but it isn't the same.

Yeah as on the Oktoberfest thread, Forester is in Friedrichshafen, Id figure that its hard to come by restaurants and food that he has seen before. Eating mexican food in Germany is like eating mexican food in yankee states .. it aint even close, might as well eat at Taco Bell.

Having a grip on the language allows you to eat properly, also fitting yourself into the culture and what people eat where you are helps you find good things. When you dont understand what the menu says and you dont understand what to try, its really hard to get a feel for anything. That is why I really feel for a lot of GIs that live here in Stuttgart, there is a huge wide world of great stuff just off the base, but I doubt that they will ever try it, because they would need a cultural guide and language abilities that arent "easy" to do.

Also with Maisels, yeah you arent going to find that outside of Bayern even. I saw it in Nürnburg and into the Bayerwald, but here in Baden-Württemberg you wont find it either. Only the giants get exported to the US and Canada. Becks (Hamburg), Paulaner, Franziskaner, and Hacker-Pschorr (gebiet München) what else? Bitburger (Bitburg), St. Pauli Girl (purely export from Hamburg), I dont think Ive seen much other than that in the US and Canada.

Best beer Ive had? Wow who knows Ive had like probably 200 different major brewery beers, I have a love for Shiner Bock and would love to have some over here. German beers are good, Czech beers are better IMO. Schwaben Braü Marzen and Erdinger Ur-Weizen are the best beers Ive had lately. If its a warm day, Im probably drinking a Rothaus Tannenzäpfle, drinking wheat beers on warm days just doesnt sit well.

Say Chowdah: I love going to Europe. Never lived there, but I have rented apartments in London and Paris for vacations and done grocery shopping in both. Paris had a lot more to offer than London in the way of variety and fresh foods, but you can find your share of processed and packaged foods at a Parisian Monoprix if you are cost-conscious.

As I mentioned above, the Europeans, and especially the French, have heavily subsidized small farmers so there is more "locally grown" stuff available. However, French consumers pay for that when they pay their VAT. If left to their own devices (in other words, if not subsidized by the government), the French, along with the rest of the Europeans, will eat their fair share of McDonald's burgers just like we do (go see who frequents these places in Europe--it's the locals). It's the Euro snobbery on this thread that I find laughable.

British food is pretty bad. I think Most Europeans would agree. European food is good, but I think what makes it better is it fresher.

I think the American difference is due to our expansive country vs thiers and how our country developed.

I think as peopel expanded west, cities would develop and be pit stops on the trail. People buy things and need them to keep for awhile on the trail. The busineses grew based on that logic. As the city grew around them, they were ther only people making that food, so that is all the locals would eat.

Now I do think we are seeing a push back to that formula with local bread shops (1990s), local brewrys (1990s), produce (2000s). So we re developing as our cities settle down (less expansion), as Europe did earlier.

Plus the people are different. We are a more driven country that favors the young vs the old and money vs quality of life/health. Europe may have people that might enjoy a nice fresh piece of bread as quality of life, vs throwing some type of food down your throat to eat through lunch so you can make moe money.

A lot of differences that go into the factors. On a side note a french bread baggette gets pretty old real quick. Now German bread is good.

the trend of processed/canned food didn't start intil the industrial revolution really took off. which was significantly after the oregon trail days.

****, do I have to defend my post? European snobbery? For ****s sake. Why can't you guys be objective and stop with the bull**** 'Euro' crap.

Firstly I'm English, so yes we are part of Europe, but we don't consider outselves 'European'. We're English. End of.

Secondly, it's not snobbery. Having lived in both the USA & the UK, I am giving you my opinion. If you are talking about traditional English food, then yeah it's pretty poor. Restaurant's 20 years ago were poor.

However, on that note....go and take a look at how many Michelin Star restaurants there are in England and you would be surprised. In London which is where (obvious from the name) I am from, you will find some excellent restaurants but of course you need to stay away from the tourist areas. Just like any major city, there are good and bad.

As for grocery stores, my original point was that in England, if you go to the equivalent of HEB, I can honestly say that the quality of food is a lot higher. The fresh produce, the bread, the cheese etc. It actually tastes of something. So to say that I have the audacity to critize US food, is a crazy statement as I have lived in both places, not just visited them.

Yes, as others have said, you can find decent food if you want to pay a premium here and go to Whole Foods or Central Market, but you shouldn't have to. I went to a major grocery store and asked for Halloumi cheese the other day. No one there had heard of it. Not even the deli manager. Sorry, it's not that flippin exotic!
I did eventually find it in Whole foods, and had to pay around 7 or 8 bucks for a small bit of cheese that would have cost me about 4 bucks back home. That's what I am talking about.

I wish Americans would realise that much of the food they eat is utter rubbish and I wish they would demand a change. Kraft cheese as an example, would never sell back home.

Oh, let me finish off by saying "USA USA USA!!!"

Just in case anyone felt I was being 'anti American' (which I am most certainly not).

PS: We're currently living just outside Tampa. I miss grocery stores from England, and I actually do miss HEB which is better than the local option here.





http://www.seashepherd.org

'It's been......emotional'.

Just saw this thread and thought I would comment

I'd like to go to bat for British food right now and list some things that are quite outstanding that come from the UK

-Irn-Bru
-Twiglets
-Hula Hoops crisps
-Mature English Chedder
-Flake bars
-Crunchie bars
-Dairy Milks
-wine gums
-shepards pie
-scottish angus beef
-scotch eggs
-pret shops
-Nearly anything Marks and Spencer Brand
-Harry Ramsden fish and Chips (and thats just a chain)
-real turkish delights
-99 cones
-Real ciders
-sausage rolls(the flaky pastry variety)
-HP sauce (all varieties)
-Marmite spread thin on a piece of toast

-The fact that every maker of potato chips
offers a smokey bacon flavor

The new HEBs have huge cheese sections and bakeries and I love that stuff.

But I still like Kraft singles and mayo on white bread.

I love how some of you make it sound like we just don't know any better. Maybe some people don't, but it's ridiculous to assume that people who eat crap don't know it's crap. It's still tasty.

I don't know about food from the UK being that bad. The best fish & chips I ever had was standing by the harbor in Oban, Scotland. The best curry I ever had was in Rye, England. The best steak and ale pie and best steak and kidney pie I've had at numberous spots in England. I could certainly see where someone could say that the UK doesn't have the variety of food choices that the US has, but then again, the UK is not nearly as full of restaurant chains as is the US. I've been to plenty of independent restaurants in the US that are as bland as anything in the UK. The one nice thing about chain restaurants in the US is you pretty much know what you get, though the problem is you ALWAYS know what you get.

I would agree that bread and cheese choices in the US, especially away from the northeast, are not as good. As Americans, we have chosen for the most part to live away from work and commute in via the highway. As was mentioned in a previous post, stopping every night or every other night on the way home to pick up fresh veg/dairy/meat/fruit from the grocery while driving a car is a royal pain. Such is the price we pay for living in an automobile-dominated society.

I will say that grocery chains such as Central Market, Market Street, etc. have really opened people's eyes as to what is available out there. I think it's a good thing which will only get better.

This is my personal take and it's already been covered in this thread:

I love, love, love fresh baked bread. (I agree that the generic wonderbread variety sucks.) And I love good cheese. But, as was mentioned, those things don't last long typically. The lack of preservatives makes the shelf life pretty short for most items.

My wife and I typically go to the grocery store twice a month. (Yea, only twice a month.)

My typical work schedule over the past 12 months or so has been 7a-7p M-F. During most of the Spring, my wife works 8a-8p M-F and 8a-1p on Saturdays. (She is a tax accountant.) Throw in any after work activities (church events, working out at the gym, business dinners, etc) and I find myself leaving home at 7a and not returning until 8:30pm most business days.

We are out of town, on average, two weekends a month.

Given that schedule, you can imagine I have no desire to go grocery shopping at 8:30pm during a weeknight. I just don't. My wife is the same- and it's especially true for her in the Spring.

Thus, during our (on average) two weekends per month in town, we fight the crowds and load up at HEB Plus. Since we shop so rarely, it is beneficial for me to get the bread that will last two weeks or the cheese that's "fresh" for a month or two.

I would love to have a shopping experience where I could run in, grab something fresh for the next day or two, and run out without being more than a few blocks from my home, but until its more of the accepted norm to live in urban environments, I don't think you'll see a ton of those options.

Of course, that's my personal opinion. Obviously, a lot of people are like me, giving up the quality for the convenience (in my situation) or the price (in the situation of some others).

There is absolutely a trend back to locally made food products (especially micro brews), but it's going to take a while for that to become mainstream.

If the food quality is a bother, I'd try to find a Central Market or Whole Foods or even a large chain grocery that may have a fresh foods department. (My HEB Plus makes pretty decent bread- not great- but certainly better than the Wonderbread variety.



[This message has been edited by BaylorGuy314 (edited 2/8/2010 5:50p).]

[This message has been edited by comrade2011 (edited 3/8/2014 6:29p).]

[This message has been edited by comrade2011 (edited 3/8/2014 6:30p).]

lol I really went to town on this thread .. I guess I was on some sort of pro-European kick at the time or I felt the need to counterbalance the guy getting attacked.

Always funny to look at old posts and be amused with what you wrote.