9u Majors had 17 yo kid umpires that didn't know the rules. Multiple times had to call TD for rule clarification. IE: fake to third on a pickoff called a balk, dropped 3rd strike with a runner on first didn't call batter out etc etc. Really bad.

We did not fare well on our pick up team. Such is life. I don't know that we'll play in that event again. It is too early in the season for such a big tournament. Need 15 kids on the roster with multiple PO's and that's not gonna fly at 9-10.

PO at 9-10U? Is that a joke?

I will never understand why anyone would sign their team up for crap like that. Absolutely blows my mind. You couldn't pay me to take my team to a tournament like that and we would compete just fine it it. Stupid, especially this early in the year.

But hey the moms got the Facebook pics and the organizations got whatever they get. So I guess there is that.

Yep, this jives with what I've heard. Unleashed had a team in our tournament a few weeks ago (12U). They were playing on the field right before us. I was talking to a parent on the Banditos team we were about to play, and she told me basically the exact same thing you heard about the organization starting from ex-Premier coaches, and them being forbidden from playing at Premier. Crazy stuff.

TheAggiesAreWe03 said:

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Yep, this jives with what I've heard. Unleashed had a team in our tournament a few weeks ago (12U). They were playing on the field right before us. I was talking to a parent on the Banditos team we were about to play, and she told me basically the exact same thing you heard about the organization starting from ex-Premier coaches, and them being forbidden from playing at Premier. Crazy stuff.

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They just posted this:

On Saturday one of our local 11u major teams was losing by 9 with 1 minute left when the out was made to start a new inning. Coach said he was good and other coach said ok game over.

Next game they were up 3-0 on the #6 team in the country late. The team went to tourney director and said they forfeited last game so they should be kicked out. Tourney director agreed and kicked them out of the tourney on Saturday. Didn't even let them play their other 2 pool games Sunday. At least the #6 team didn't get a loss hung on them by a "lesser" team. PG got their money though.

Wow

PhatMack19 said:

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On Saturday one of our local 11u major teams was losing by 9 with 1 minute left when the out was made to start a new inning. Coach said he was good and other coach said ok game over.

Next game they were up 3-0 on the #6 team in the country late. The team went to tourney director and said they forfeited last game so they should be kicked out. Tourney director agreed and kicked them out of the tourney on Saturday. Didn't even let them play their other 2 pool games Sunday. At least the #6 team didn't get a loss hung on them by a "lesser" team. PG got their money though.

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Welcome to select baseball. If you are only in 11U there will be many more shenanigans to witness over the next few years.

Remind me of an event from this past December. Last tournament of the year, my younger sons 14U AA team.

They didn't have enough players for the tournament, so had 4 of the 13U kids play up.(one of which is technically 12U)


Lose both pool play games. Coach of the other team of game two starts asking why 2 of the kids playing aren't on the PG roster. It's explained to him what happened. I think we lose by like 5-6 runs. Was not close.

We draw that same team first on Sunday. Just before first pitch, the other coach says we have to forfeit because players not on the roster. PG is called verifying all players are correct age because on roster of 13U team.

Rules are rules, so we have to forfeit. Here's the rub. The other coach wouldn't just still play the game since everyone is there. Great chance for at-bats and get in some new pitchers. Nope. He flat out refuses to play.

They did get run ruled next game, so poetic justice.

He didn't want to play the game because he didn't want to burn a pitcher.

That same thing happened to us a while back. A parent on another team just forgot to approve a player and the coach didn't catch it. They proved his age and we saw him on their gamechanger from another league so we said no problem. One of the other teams in another game though wouldn't allow it so he had to sit out. They won and fortunately for the kid they played us again, I think in the Championship. Don't remember if we won or not but I remember his name was Wyatt.

Some are in it for the boys. Some are not.




Edit-To add to that, some coaches and parents are shady as F. And rules are rules for a reason. If the roster rules were not generally enforced there would be complete chaos. I think every situation is unique and yours sounds innocent. The situation we were in was against a familiar team from our area. It might be different if it wasn't.

Panama Red said:

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Remind me of an event from this past December. Last tournament of the year, my younger sons 14U AA team.

They didn't have enough players for the tournament, so had 4 of the 13U kids play up.(one of which is technically 12U)


Lose both pool play games. Coach of the other team of game two starts asking why 2 of the kids playing aren't on the PG roster. It's explained to him what happened. I think we lose by like 5-6 runs. Was not close.

We draw that same team first on Sunday. Just before first pitch, the other coach says we have to forfeit because players not on the roster. PG is called verifying all players are correct age because on roster of 13U team.

Rules are rules, so we have to forfeit. Here's the rub. The other coach wouldn't just still play the game since everyone is there. Great chance for at-bats and get in some new pitchers. Nope. He flat out refuses to play.

They did get run ruled next game, so poetic justice.

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I can't stand that kind of petty BS.

Ring-chasing crap. Same way you see teams with 93 pick-up players on their rosters. Or once in 13U one of my older son's opponents got caught swapping jerseys on kids so their best pitcher could throw like 200+ pitches in a weekend.

Shady as F.


Its why we play in Franklin and pick and choose our tournaments very carefully.

docb said:

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PO at 9-10U? Is that a joke?

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Yeah, definitely absurd to have POs at 9-10U but to make it through an event like an NIT you absolutely have to have a bigger than normal roster (say 13-15 kids instead of 11-12) and pretty much every single one has to be able to pitch effectively. And unlike normal events, some of those kids might sit and not do anything but pitch an inning or two.

If you want to win this tournament then yes... you need a larger than normal roster and you aren't going to want to bat all 13-15 kids. I am not saying I agree with it but you either throw kids 100 pitches in 3 days in February or you have kids you bring in to mainly pitch. I am not asking my 9yos to throw that many pitches b2b2b days so the only other option is to add additional pitching only for this tournament. Again, not my cup of tea and why I don't want to participate in this tournament in the future, but it is reality.

The tournament we played in 2 weeks ago the Canes team had 4 kids in different jerseys. The pitcher they started against us in the championship wasn't even on the tournament roster.

@agsalaska... to my knowledge Franklin only hosts 11u and up correct?

hustle2015 said:

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If you want to win this tournament then yes... you need a larger than normal roster and you aren't going to want to bat all 13-15 kids. I am not saying I agree with it but you either throw kids 100 pitches in 3 days in February or you have kids you bring in to mainly pitch. I am not asking my 9yos to throw that many pitches b2b2b days so the only other option is to add additional pitching only for this tournament. Again, not my cup of tea and why I don't want to participate in this tournament in the future, but it is reality.

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Sounds like a cluster**** to me

hustle2015 said:

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The tournament we played in 2 weeks ago the Canes team had 4 kids in different jerseys. The pitcher they started against us in the championship wasn't even on the tournament roster.

@agsalaska... to my knowledge Franklin only hosts 11u and up correct?

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Yea but look at how many Cane's teams are registered in those tournaments. The tournament director will turn a blind eye to any kind of protest when those teams are what they are profiting from.

Correct. 11u-14u

This will be our third year competing there and it is the best youth baseball experience I have found. In fact there is not a close second. Our kids absolutely love it. You basically leave your BS at the gate and just have fun and play baseball. Umpires are fun. Coaches are fun. Facilities are too notch. Just a great experience.

It is certainly competitive too. There are several majors level teams there every year.

Going from tournament to league and not playing for a ring every weekend is an adjustment for some. But it's mostly just the moms who don't get their FB posts. The kids are cool with it.

Quote:

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He didn't want to play the game because he didn't want to burn a pitcher.

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I think the point from Red is that the team didn't have to "burn" a pitcher. Everyone has some guys that don't really pitch regularly, but could use the practice.

Exactly that. Additionally, if he didn't want to burn a pitcher, he could have said as much. His actual reason he gave our coach was "we don't want to play against a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds."


I get that rules are rules. That is why we had no argument on the forfeit.

We've played against teams before where the other coach has said they were one short and the only option was someone an age group up. Has never been a problem, the point is supposed to be playing baseball and getting better.

I don't think they gave out "first round winner" rings in that December tournament, so that coach still has room on his mantle.

Being based out of Taylor/Thrall/Thorndale... can't wait til we can play in Franklin in 2 years.

You know in defense to this your coach should have added the kids to roster so technically it's his fault this happened. I agree it's crappy but still you've got to be on top of things.

At what age do you start to lock in a position, less rotation?

Farmer1906 said:

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At what age do you start to lock in a position, less rotation?

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I'd say HS you should have a primary position but versatility is huge. There's plenty of guys who have been recruited or drafted at one position and converted in college or the minor leagues.

TarponChaser said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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At what age do you start to lock in a position, less rotation?

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I'd say HS you should have a primary position but versatility is huge. There's plenty of guys who have been recruited or drafted at one position and converted in college or the minor leagues.

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So in a weekend, how many positions would you say its normal to play in game? Edit: before HS.

Farmer1906 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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At what age do you start to lock in a position, less rotation?

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I'd say HS you should have a primary position but versatility is huge. There's plenty of guys who have been recruited or drafted at one position and converted in college or the minor leagues.

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So in a weekend, how many positions would you say its normal to play in game? Edit: before HS.

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Dependent upon athleticism and skill (age too) probably 2-3. A lot depends on pitching too.

Like my oldest would play RF or LF, 1B & 3B and pitch some. As he's gotten older playing a position has been somewhat dependent on pitch count, so if he threw 50-60 pitches on Saturday he'd only play 1st the rest of the weekend. My younger one is in 11U and he'll play catcher, 3rd, and OF.

TarponChaser said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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At what age do you start to lock in a position, less rotation?

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I'd say HS you should have a primary position but versatility is huge. There's plenty of guys who have been recruited or drafted at one position and converted in college or the minor leagues.

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So in a weekend, how many positions would you say its normal to play in game? Edit: before HS.

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Dependent upon athleticism and skill (age too) probably 2-3. A lot depends on pitching too.

Like my oldest would play RF or LF, 1B & 3B and pitch some. As he's gotten older playing a position has been somewhat dependent on pitch count, so if he threw 50-60 pitches on Saturday he'd only play 1st the rest of the weekend. My younger one is in 11U and he'll play catcher, 3rd, and OF.

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That is about what we do. I just see some other teams lock in players as OF only or middle INF only. They run their practices where everything feels super specialized at a very young age.

Farmer1906 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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At what age do you start to lock in a position, less rotation?

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I'd say HS you should have a primary position but versatility is huge. There's plenty of guys who have been recruited or drafted at one position and converted in college or the minor leagues.

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So in a weekend, how many positions would you say its normal to play in game? Edit: before HS.

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Dependent upon athleticism and skill (age too) probably 2-3. A lot depends on pitching too.

Like my oldest would play RF or LF, 1B & 3B and pitch some. As he's gotten older playing a position has been somewhat dependent on pitch count, so if he threw 50-60 pitches on Saturday he'd only play 1st the rest of the weekend. My younger one is in 11U and he'll play catcher, 3rd, and OF.

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That is about what we do. I just see some other teams lock in players as OF only or middle INF only. They run their practices where everything feels super specialized at a very young age.

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Unfortunately that's relatively common.

There's always exceptions, especially at younger ages. Like in coach pitch you can hide the big kids who can mash but can't run or field at catcher. Then on the smaller fields (9U-12U) you can stick that same big kid at first because now that kids can steal bases you need somebody more agile at catcher. And you might keep the smaller kid who's a decent athlete but just undersized at second. I don't ever recall my oldest ever being at SS or 2nd in a game and only in practice when they were short-handed at MIF and were working on turning double-plays. My youngest very occasionally plays second.

By 13U, if you're playing seriously then kids start to filter out some because getting on the bigger fields means it's harder to hide the big kid who can't move well enough. In HS, unless you can absolutely mash or are a lights out pitcher you probably aren't playing much at all if you can't move well. Might not even make the team.

Question. At what age or competition level do teams start not batting the whole roster? I assume some of that is a team decision

If that your team does go this route how does substitution and reentry rules work.

I tried looking online and didn't really find much.

We just faced a 9u team this past weekend that only batted 9 and had 3 subs they inserted at different times.

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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Question. At what age or competition level do teams start not batting the whole roster? I assume some of that is a team decision

If that your team does go this route how does substitution and reentry rules work.

I tried looking online and didn't really find much.

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Except for pitchers you can generally pull and reinsert anybody at any time.

The question is more about the batting. At what point do teams start batting just 9. And if they make that decision they're still allowed to free swap any other kids they just never get to bat?

I've seen it a little at younger ages like 10-11, but generally teams bat their roster. I think it becomes more prominent around 12-13. Definitely see it at 14, but I still think most teams bat their roster. Entirely empirical evidence on that.

Rules wise, if you don't bat your entire roster, the other players are listed as subs and its just like college or pro. Only exception there would be regarding courtesy running, has to be one of the subs, not the last out like if you roster bat.

A couple of things.

I would say if a player is not in high school yet and the coach has locked him into a position the player needs a new team. Especially if he is not playing any OF. Every year we will have a sophomore or sometimes even a junior not make varsity because he can't play OF. We have played seven games this year and my son has played RF, 2b, 1b, and SS.

Second, we don't bat our entire roster and haven't since 11u. We have 13 kids. We bat 10 with a DH, almost always for the pitcher. So 11 of the 13 are in the game. That's 13u.