In light of his oldest son, Jackson, being called up to the Orioles and Ethan being the prospect he is I went and looked at Matt's career stats. He's far better than I remember.

Career .299 BA with 316 HR, 132 OPS+ and 44.5 WAR. I'm not up to speed on how the WAR and OPS+ rate in the HOF discussion these days though. 7x all star and 4x Silver Slugger in a 15-year career. Won a World Series in 2011 with St. Louis. Never won an MVP though, finished 2nd in 2007 when he was the NL batting & RBI leader hitting .340 with 137 RBIs.

Looking forward seeing Jackson play myself. The second Holliday son, Ethan, might end up better. He's a bigger, stronger prospect than Jackson at 6'4" 210 vs. 6'0" 195-200'ish.

I want to say Farmer did a really good comparison of Holliday a few months ago and it was pretty clear after that he wasn't going to get in.

South Platte said:

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I want to say Farmer did a really good comparison of Holliday a few months ago and it was pretty clear after that he wasn't going to get in.

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I brought up Paul Goldschmidt a couple months ago, that might be what you're thinking of and Farmer posted a pretty persuasive comparison that Goldschmidt would probably get it. I think compared him to Holliday too.

Anyway, here's their comparison. Goldschmidt is better but they're close. The GG might be the real differentiator IMHO.

https://stathead.com/tiny/xV0P8

Holliday gets dismissed as a Coors Field rock star, but his 2007 numbers were pretty incredible. It's lazy to brush it aside as a Rockies thing, because when you look at his road splits it was still among the best in the league for that time. The fact that he struggled for the first couple years after he left Colorado adds to the criticism, but it doesn't really convey just how good he was for those few years.

That said, a .299 career average and 316 HRs for an outfielder isn't anything to write home about. It's a very good career, but HOF consideration is laughable.

His wife can get nominated for the current player hot mom HOF

The lack of hardware is going to hurt Holliday, and the fact that he played at Coors. Goldschmidt has an MVP trophy and was in the top 6 vote getters 6 times. Holliday finished 2nd in mvp voting once, and then never closer than 11th

Zero gold gloves. Fun player to watch, especially when he was in Colorado, but if Berkman isn't in, he isn't either.

DeProfundis said:

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The lack of hardware is going to hurt Holliday, and the fact that he played at Coors. Goldschmidt has an MVP trophy and was in the top 6 vote getters 6 times. Holliday finished 2nd in mvp voting once, and then never closer than 11th

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Holliday was a better player than I remembered but I agree that he's not HoF. He's probably not in the Hall of Very Good but rather in the Hall of Good.

But I also revert to the "if Harold Baines is in the Hall, then why not this guy?"

Baines has more HR and RBI but it's not by a huge amount and Holliday is better in every other category including WAR and OPS+. More All Star appearances, more SS, neither has a GG. Holliday also has a batting title and WS ring and Baines has neither.

Not sure how my post ended up being in your quote so I'll just let it stand alone.

Baines should never have sniffed the HOF. If you're comparing Holliday's numbers to Baines' numbers, then I don't think Holliday belongs either.

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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Not sure how my post ended up being in your quote so I'll just let it stand alone.

Baines should never have sniffed the HOF. If you're comparing Holliday's numbers to Baines' numbers, then I don't think Holliday belongs either.

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Yeah, I'm not making an argument for Holliday other than the Baines comparison. But I also agree that Baines should not be in the HOF.

Really just discussing his numbers because of Jackson being called up by the Orioles.

TarponChaser said:

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Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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Not sure how my post ended up being in your quote so I'll just let it stand alone.

Baines should never have sniffed the HOF. If you're comparing Holliday's numbers to Baines' numbers, then I don't think Holliday belongs either.

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Yeah, I'm not making an argument for Holliday other than the Baines comparison. But I also agree that Baines should not be in the HOF.

Really just discussing his numbers because of Jackson being called up by the Orioles.

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I pretty much understood you don't think he should be in. The use of "you're" in my post should have probably been better stated. My apologies.

TarponChaser said:

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DeProfundis said:

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The lack of hardware is going to hurt Holliday, and the fact that he played at Coors. Goldschmidt has an MVP trophy and was in the top 6 vote getters 6 times. Holliday finished 2nd in mvp voting once, and then never closer than 11th

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Holliday was a better player than I remembered but I agree that he's not HoF. He's probably not in the Hall of Very Good but rather in the Hall of Good.

But I also revert to the "if Harold Baines is in the Hall, then why not this guy?"

Baines has more HR and RBI but it's not by a huge amount and Holliday is better in every other category including WAR and OPS+. More All Star appearances, more SS, neither has a GG. Holliday also has a batting title and WS ring and Baines has neither.

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Yes, you're right. Hall of Good, top 5% of pro-baseball players easy, but not hall of fame worthy. Harold Baines is a lol. Happy for him but he doesn't belong there

Texas acquired Baines for Scott Fletcher, Wilson Alvarez, and Sammy Sosa.

Yikes.