I always reference both idiots and hate them both equally
***** 2024 Houston Astros Season Thread ***** [Staff Warning]
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Last: 1 mo ago by jkag89
Ag_07 said:
Fair enough
Just curious to why the hate for one but not the other.
I think he's seen as the face of the offense, but you make a fair point. I'm curious who has more authority. I assumed it is Cintron, but that might be wrong.
Snitker does seem to hang in the background more
Cintron and/or Snitker need the ire for the lack of plate discipline for Pena and others. They can and should be working to teach pitch recognition or fix mechanical things out of whack.
But the institutional thing with the team to me is bigger. With the new timing rules, it rewards and higher OBA and speed.
Players like Jake, Pena or Chas should be focusing on BB% over K%. Get on and run. You get into scoring position and avoid DPs at the same time.
We need to look at certain players and limit their swings.
But the institutional thing with the team to me is bigger. With the new timing rules, it rewards and higher OBA and speed.
Players like Jake, Pena or Chas should be focusing on BB% over K%. Get on and run. You get into scoring position and avoid DPs at the same time.
We need to look at certain players and limit their swings.
Bregman (3B), Jake (CF), and Dubon (Util) are Gold Glove finalists.
Are Gold Gloves reputation awards like Pro Bowl in the NFL? Will Dubon be a shoe-in since he won last year even though he was not as solid this season? Does Jake have a chance to win?
Are Gold Gloves reputation awards like Pro Bowl in the NFL? Will Dubon be a shoe-in since he won last year even though he was not as solid this season? Does Jake have a chance to win?
Ag_07 said:
No...It's an issue.
It's just a lack of talent and roster construction issue rather than a hitting coach issue.
And why does everyone bltch and moan about Cintron but Snitker gets a pass?
I wouldn't say lack of talent
Altuve - MVP, multiple time all star and silver slugger
Yordan - top 5 hitter in baseball
Bregman - MVP runner up, multi all star and silver slugger
Tucker - multi time all star and silver slugger
Pena - ALCS and WS mvp
Diaz - top 3 rookie of the year finisher and top 3 offensive catcher
That's 6 players who have offensive talent. And one of the best 1-6 in MLB. Followed by Chas who showed he is more than capable (2022 and 2023) and Meyers who hasn't lived up to potential
Any regression from guys could be blamed on coaching and development
That's all back of the baseball card stuff right there.
Altuve while still Altuve isn't an MVP anymore.
Bregman hasn't been a MVP caliber player since 2019.
Pena is an MLB average player and the postseason run he had is an outlier to this point.
Tucker while a stud missed 3/4 of the season.
This 2024 team was not as talented as we tend to think.
Altuve while still Altuve isn't an MVP anymore.
Bregman hasn't been a MVP caliber player since 2019.
Pena is an MLB average player and the postseason run he had is an outlier to this point.
Tucker while a stud missed 3/4 of the season.
This 2024 team was not as talented as we tend to think.
I disagree on Pena. I do not think he's a candidate for a top offensive player.tjack16 said:Ag_07 said:
No...It's an issue.
It's just a lack of talent and roster construction issue rather than a hitting coach issue.
And why does everyone bltch and moan about Cintron but Snitker gets a pass?
I wouldn't say lack of talent
Altuve - MVP, multiple time all star and silver slugger
Yordan - top 5 hitter in baseball
Bregman - MVP runner up, multi all star and silver slugger
Tucker - multi time all star and silver slugger
Pena - ALCS and WS mvp
Diaz - top 3 rookie of the year finisher and top 3 offensive catcher
That's 6 players who have offensive talent. And one of the best 1-6 in MLB. Followed by Chas who showed he is more than capable (2022 and 2023) and Meyers who hasn't lived up to potential
Any regression from guys could be blamed on coaching and development
You cannot blame all regression on coaching and development. There is much, much more to it than that and I know you know it. This game is a game of adjustments, and the question is, can the player make the adjustment? Coaches can tell guys what the adjustments are until they are red in the face, but if the player refuses or just can't make the adjustment, how is that on the coaches?
The problem is we aren't on the inside, and we don't know which it is.
Joey Gallo said he would never change his swing despite the massive strikeout numbers. I'm sure hitting coaches suggested he change his approach some. A hitting coach shouldn't be fired for that.
Like I said… I think the regressions of the players are coaching and development issues. Along with of course the player needing to improve… but you don't just magically stop being a good hitter (in most instances)
The main issue this year as we all know was situational hitting. That all comes down to coaching, gameplan, scouting and approach.
All I'm saying is over the past two seasons we have been trending down in most offensive categories since 2022. Something has to change… So why not shake up the assistant coaches?
The main issue this year as we all know was situational hitting. That all comes down to coaching, gameplan, scouting and approach.
All I'm saying is over the past two seasons we have been trending down in most offensive categories since 2022. Something has to change… So why not shake up the assistant coaches?
THIRD BASE (Fielding Run Value)Booma94 said:
Bregman (3B), Jake (CF), and Dubon (Util) are Gold Glove finalists.
Are Gold Gloves reputation awards like Pro Bowl in the NFL? Will Dubon be a shoe-in since he won last year even though he was not as solid this season? Does Jake have a chance to win?
Alex Bregman, Astros (+5)
Ernie Clement, Blue Jays (+5)
Jos Ramrez, Guardians (+2)
I think Bregman should win it from this group. Clement is probably the better defender, but played about half the innings at 3B compared to Breggy and played some SS too. He should have probably been in the UTL spot and won it. I am shocked Rojas wasn't a finalist. He would get my vote.
CENTER FIELD
Jarren Duran, Red Sox (+12)
Jake Meyers, Astros (+12)
Daulton Varsho, Blue Jays (+17)
Both Duran and Varsho played a ton of LF. Varsho's best play was in LF. He was +10 OAA in LF vs +5 OAA in CF. Both Duran & Varsho have position plays with their arm while Jake does not. If I want a field CFer who covers ground then Jake wins this. If we're factoring arm and looking at their play in LF, it should be Varsho. Siri has an argument to be a finalist and possibly win it too.
UTILITY
Willi Castro, Twins (+3)
Mauricio Dubn, Astros (+7)
Dylan Moore, Mariners (0)
Positions Played
Castro: 2nd, 3rd, SS, LF, RF
Dubon: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, SS, LF, CF, RF
Moore: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, SS, LF, CF (only 1 inning)
For me, Dubon runs away with thismost positions, best metrics, and more innings in SS/CF (most important). Garrett Gampson only played 566 innings, but had a +8 FRV and played the same positions as Dubon. He probably should have been included.
Players stop being good all the time. The average MLB career is around 5 years. It's not uncommon for a guy to come up play well for a year or two, get figured out, then flame out over a few years after a trade. Age causes sharp declines all the time.tjack16 said:
Like I said… I think the regressions of the players are coaching and development issues. Along with of course the player needing to improve… but you don't just magically stop being a good hitter (in most instances)
The main issue this year as we all know was situational hitting. That all comes down to coaching, gameplan, scouting and approach.
All I'm saying is over the past two seasons we have been trending down in most offensive categories since 2022. Something has to change… So why not shake up the assistant coaches?
Acting like average MLB players declining is mostly on coaching completely ignores how baseball has worked for 100 years and that while these guys are the best of the best, there is a stark difference between the guys who make it to that 10 year mark in the MLB and the guys who flame out before that.
I'm not suggesting there aren't coaching issues. Sure, there has been some trend down in offensive categories. Do you not at least acknowledge that despite Tucker being out 3/4 of the season, Bregman playing dead cold for April AND May (way off his norm), Chas' injuries, and the hitting AAA rotation of Loperfido, Leon, Dezenzo, and Whitcomb, the Astros were a top 10 offense this season? That would suggest good coaching is going on to endure those obstacles.
tjack16 said:
Like I said… I think the regressions of the players are coaching and development issues. Along with of course the player needing to improve… but you don't just magically stop being a good hitter (in most instances)
The main issue this year as we all know was situational hitting. That all comes down to coaching, gameplan, scouting and approach.
All I'm saying is over the past two seasons we have been trending down in most offensive categories since 2022. Something has to change… So why not shake up the assistant coaches?
I am not so sure I would say we're trending down in a significant way. We did it differently in 2024. The lack of walks was made up with more hits. Can we continue it?
I don't like the decline in balls put in the air and pulled. We gotta make the most of our short porch.
Thank you.Farmer1906 said:tjack16 said:
Like I said… I think the regressions of the players are coaching and development issues. Along with of course the player needing to improve… but you don't just magically stop being a good hitter (in most instances)
The main issue this year as we all know was situational hitting. That all comes down to coaching, gameplan, scouting and approach.
All I'm saying is over the past two seasons we have been trending down in most offensive categories since 2022. Something has to change… So why not shake up the assistant coaches?
I am not so sure I would say we're trending down in a significant way. We did it differently in 2024. The lack of walks was made up with more hits. Can we continue it?
I don't like the decline in balls put in the air and pulled. We gotta make the most of our short porch.
I 100% agree on the decline of balls put in the air. I do think some of it is lack of hitting meatballs. How much of that is season to season? Guess we'll find out.
When you look at our offensive splits, we actually hit a little better with RISP than we did with the bases empty. Overall, we were pretty consistent in all situations.
Bases Empty: .252 BA .725 OPS
Runners On: .275 BA .761 OPS
Scoring Pos: .267 BA .751 OPS
So that got me to thinking. How does that compare to the 2022 offense. It turns out that it compares similarly. That team was slightly worse with the bases empty, but slightly better wither RISP.
Bases Empty: .241 BA .727 OPS
Runners On: .257 BA .766 OPS
Scoring Pos: .270 BA .795 OPS
Those numbers really don't show a huge drop off over the past two years, so I decided to compare a little more between the two squads.
2024
740 R
190 HR
1,448 H
448 BB
1,176 K
.262 BA
.740 OPS
2022
737 R
214 HR
1,341 H
528 BB
1,179 K
.248 BA
.743 OPS
Outside of a slight dip in power, we traded 80 walks for 107 hits, hence the higher batting average. But overall, the production is practically identical to a team that won 106 games and the World Series. So maybe we have to go further back to see the decline.
2019
920 R
288 HR
1,538 H
645 BB
1,166 K
.274 BA
.847 OPS
Okay. We found the offensive juggernaut that everyone longs for. But check out that roster! This year's team had no chance of replicating 2019-like numbers. I think it's a damn good accomplishment to have numbers similar to the 2022 squad considering we had to DFA our $20M first baseman, only had Tucker for half the season, saw Chas follow up a promising 2023 with below replacement level output in 24, and ran a lineup out that consistently featured rookies and castoffs.
Of course, there's room for improvement because we weren't the best offense in baseball, but I don't see anything that you would fire a hitting coach over. We are not going to produce like we did in the late teens without a roster similar to what those teams had.
Bases Empty: .252 BA .725 OPS
Runners On: .275 BA .761 OPS
Scoring Pos: .267 BA .751 OPS
So that got me to thinking. How does that compare to the 2022 offense. It turns out that it compares similarly. That team was slightly worse with the bases empty, but slightly better wither RISP.
Bases Empty: .241 BA .727 OPS
Runners On: .257 BA .766 OPS
Scoring Pos: .270 BA .795 OPS
Those numbers really don't show a huge drop off over the past two years, so I decided to compare a little more between the two squads.
2024
740 R
190 HR
1,448 H
448 BB
1,176 K
.262 BA
.740 OPS
2022
737 R
214 HR
1,341 H
528 BB
1,179 K
.248 BA
.743 OPS
Outside of a slight dip in power, we traded 80 walks for 107 hits, hence the higher batting average. But overall, the production is practically identical to a team that won 106 games and the World Series. So maybe we have to go further back to see the decline.
2019
920 R
288 HR
1,538 H
645 BB
1,166 K
.274 BA
.847 OPS
Okay. We found the offensive juggernaut that everyone longs for. But check out that roster! This year's team had no chance of replicating 2019-like numbers. I think it's a damn good accomplishment to have numbers similar to the 2022 squad considering we had to DFA our $20M first baseman, only had Tucker for half the season, saw Chas follow up a promising 2023 with below replacement level output in 24, and ran a lineup out that consistently featured rookies and castoffs.
Of course, there's room for improvement because we weren't the best offense in baseball, but I don't see anything that you would fire a hitting coach over. We are not going to produce like we did in the late teens without a roster similar to what those teams had.
tjack16 said:
but you don't just magically stop being a good hitter (in most instances)
Happens all the time. That list is long.
But I don't think it's a situation of guys are just no longer good hitters. I just think we put them on a pedestal and they're just not as good as we think they are.
Their best stretches (2019 Bregman, 2022 playoff Pena, 2023 Chas) are the outliers not the status quo we should be expecting.
Good analysis.iBrad said:
When you look at our offensive splits, we actually hit a little better with RISP than we did with the bases empty. Overall, we were pretty consistent in all situations.
Bases Empty: .252 BA .725 OPS
Runners On: .275 BA .761 OPS
Scoring Pos: .267 BA .751 OPS
So that got me to thinking. How does that compare to the 2022 offense. It turns out that it compares similarly. That team was slightly worse with the bases empty, but slightly better wither RISP.
Bases Empty: .241 BA .727 OPS
Runners On: .257 BA .766 OPS
Scoring Pos: .270 BA .795 OPS
Those numbers really don't show a huge drop off over the past two years, so I decided to compare a little more between the two squads.
2024
740 R
190 HR
1,448 H
448 BB
1,176 K
.262 BA
.740 OPS
2022
737 R
214 HR
1,341 H
528 BB
1,179 K
.248 BA
.743 OPS
Outside of a slight dip in power, we traded 80 walks for 107 hits, hence the higher batting average. But overall, the production is practically identical to a team that won 106 games and the World Series. So maybe we have to go further back to see the decline.
2019
920 R
288 HR
1,538 H
645 BB
1,166 K
.274 BA
.847 OPS
Okay. We found the offensive juggernaut that everyone longs for. But check out that roster! This year's team had no chance of replicating 2019-like numbers. I think it's a damn good accomplishment to have numbers similar to the 2022 squad considering we had to DFA our $20M first baseman, only had Tucker for half the season, saw Chas follow up a promising 2023 with below replacement level output in 24, and ran a lineup out that consistently featured rookies and castoffs.
Of course, there's room for improvement because we weren't the best offense in baseball, but I don't see anything that you would fire a hitting coach over. We are not going to produce like we did in the late teens without a roster similar to what those teams had.
It still kills me to think that the 2019 championship trophy doesn't reside at MMP because that was the most solid, balanced, loaded team of the 7 year run. But the Baseball Gods just didn't allow it to happen...
Mathguy - are you really saying the Astros don't work on pitch recognition? Cintron and Snitker can work on that with those guys 6 hours a day, but at some point it's gotta be on the player too. There are hall of famers (Biggio) who never learned to completely lay off pitches.Mathguy64 said:
Cintron and/or Snitker need the ire for the lack of plate discipline for Pena and others. They can and should be working to teach pitch recognition or fix mechanical things out of whack.
But the institutional thing with the team to me is bigger. With the new timing rules, it rewards and higher OBA and speed.
Players like Jake, Pena or Chas should be focusing on BB% over K%. Get on and run. You get into scoring position and avoid DPs at the same time.
We need to look at certain players and limit their swings.
I think the problem is, in the modern game of baseball, the numbers are really, really bad for getting on base if you're down in the count, because the stuff from pitchers is so, so good. From that standpoint, I understand hedging that with some of your guys who have the tendency to expand the zone when they have 2 strikes by telling them to be aggressive and hit a good pitch in the zone despite the count.
One interesting thing I noticed: Altuve was 5th or 6th in total hits, but not in the top 10 in runs scored. Team probably needs to look pretty hard into why our leadoff hitter, who got on base a LOT, was not scoring more runs. Obviously, Tucker out for a long time has some impact, but I'm sure there are other factors. GIDP probably pretty significant, too.
Incredibly loaded team but not clutch enough and barely got out of the ALDS.
TOOTBLAN's probably
Ag_07 said:
Anyone want to finish out their bobblehead collection?
https://texags.com/forums/50/topics/3497926
If it was individual sales I'd probably get a few but I have a lot of those already
I am sure they do, Jose and Bidge before him could not recognize it but still hit at a HoF level. Jeremy cant dop that. Teach him to swing at things middle to middle in.Beat40 said:Mathguy - are you really saying the Astros don't work on pitch recognition? Cintron and Snitker can work on that with those guys 6 hours a day, but at some point it's gotta be on the player too. There are hall of famers (Biggio) who never learned to completely lay off pitches.Mathguy64 said:
Cintron and/or Snitker need the ire for the lack of plate discipline for Pena and others. They can and should be working to teach pitch recognition or fix mechanical things out of whack.
But the institutional thing with the team to me is bigger. With the new timing rules, it rewards and higher OBA and speed.
Players like Jake, Pena or Chas should be focusing on BB% over K%. Get on and run. You get into scoring position and avoid DPs at the same time.
We need to look at certain players and limit their swings.
I think the problem is, in the modern game of baseball, the numbers are really, really bad for getting on base if you're down in the count, because the stuff from pitchers is so, so good. From that standpoint, I understand hedging that with some of your guys who have the tendency to expand the zone when they have 2 strikes by telling them to be aggressive and hit a good pitch in the zone despite the count.
I've jokingly said before, I would attach a marine battery to his chuggies and every time he swung at something away he would get zapped. Do that all off season. He will either learn to recognize that pitch or walk with a limp.
A few years ago I heard an interview with an Astro staffer and one method he learned from a former hitting coach to help rookie hitters adjust to MLB stuff was to tell them to not swing at any spin. No matter what. If it spins don't swing.
If they're swinging at it that tells you they're not seeing it. If they can lay off of it for a bit they'll get comfortable identifying it and when you take off the training wheels they'll be more confident in laying off the pitch since they've been doing it.
I always thought that was a genius approach and one I wouldn't mind seeing utilized on Pena.
If they're swinging at it that tells you they're not seeing it. If they can lay off of it for a bit they'll get comfortable identifying it and when you take off the training wheels they'll be more confident in laying off the pitch since they've been doing it.
I always thought that was a genius approach and one I wouldn't mind seeing utilized on Pena.
hold on, Dubon is a gold glove finalist this year?
he was not good in the outfield -- committed 6 errors
wasn't that good at third base either
he was not good in the outfield -- committed 6 errors
wasn't that good at third base either
I imagine the standard is a little lower for a guy that plays 7 different positions.
Not sure what the exact requirements are for being considered under the "utility player" category... but most guys who are significantly better defensively have a permanent position. The competition there isn't quite as strong.
Also he wasn't bad. 10 outs above average
Also he wasn't bad. 10 outs above average
I noticed that too at the end of the year
Altuve had 185 hits + 47 walks + 7 HBP = 239 times reaching base
scored 94 runs
he also stole 22 bases to push himself into scoring position.
figure he also reached several times on fielder's choices and errors. Subtract several for caught stealings and running rocks.
seems like he should have scored 100 to 110 runs
Altuve had 185 hits + 47 walks + 7 HBP = 239 times reaching base
scored 94 runs
he also stole 22 bases to push himself into scoring position.
figure he also reached several times on fielder's choices and errors. Subtract several for caught stealings and running rocks.
seems like he should have scored 100 to 110 runs
jack of all trades and master of none
not sure if that's a compliment or not
not sure if that's a compliment or not
one big difference between 2022 and 2024:
GiDPs
2022 --> 118
2024 --> 132
the Astros had a player in 2024 hit into 17 GiDPs while providing a dreadful .646 OPS
that cannot happen...and it shows how poorly the back half of the roster was constructed
GiDPs
2022 --> 118
2024 --> 132
the Astros had a player in 2024 hit into 17 GiDPs while providing a dreadful .646 OPS
that cannot happen...and it shows how poorly the back half of the roster was constructed
W said:
one big difference between 2022 and 2024:
GiDPs
2022 --> 118
2024 --> 132
the Astros had a player in 2024 hit into 17 GiDPs while providing a dreadful .646 OPS
that cannot happen...and it shows how poorly the back half of the roster was constructed
I think that ties into hitting fewer balls in the air, which someone pointed out earlier. More ground balls with runners on will naturally lead to more GIDP.
This made me laugh.
About time I was put in a good spot in the lineup
— Josh Reddick (@JRedDubDeuce) October 15, 2024
Errors are a very antiquated and inaccurate way to judge someone's defense.W said:
hold on, Dubon is a gold glove finalist this year?
he was not good in the outfield -- committed 6 errors
wasn't that good at third base either
Dubon has positive outs above average in RF, CF, LF, SS, 2B, and 1B. (neutral at 3B)
Who is the best hitting coach in the business? I haven't heard anyone in particular that is a can't miss hitting guru that the Astros could go after if they ever dismissed Cintron and/or Snitker.
Years ago Rudy Jaramillo was considered a top notch hitting coach. Just don't hear that much anymore about these with excellent reputations.
Years ago Rudy Jaramillo was considered a top notch hitting coach. Just don't hear that much anymore about these with excellent reputations.
BCEDAg said:
Who is the best hitting coach in the business? I haven't heard anyone in particular that is a can't miss hitting guru that the Astros could go after if they ever dismissed Cintron and/or Snitker.
Years ago Rudy Jaramillo was considered a top notch hitting coach. Just don't hear that much anymore about these with excellent reputations.
There is a guy named Mike Earley that is highly regarded.
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